another mg, N def?

[R4st4]

hey, started the grow 5 weeks ago, rooting 20 clones for a aero flow 20, due to many diffrent strains this took some time cause some strains did root much faster than others... and i didnt have inuf clones from 1 or 2 strains to fill the system so it have to be a mix tis run, 3 weeks ago i planted them in the af.. and some tookoff while others wasnt that fast so i tried to not feed too much so the smaall 1 would make it...but then i think i got mg and N def on the bigger plant and a week ago all seemed to have the same so ive been upping the feed feed from 0.5 ec a week ago to 0.8-0.9 this week and it seems like color coming back....but im not sure with the small plants tho...

the dead edges came when i turned on the second 400 w... was doing all ready for flowering... maybe it was just more light need more nutes


HYDROPONICS:

What STRAIN are you growing? power plant, juice fruit, ak-47, skywalker,love potion, dutch mans trap
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?)clone
What is the age of your plants? abit over 3 weeks
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? vegetive 18/6
What Technique are you using? sog
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) hydroton
What is the Water temperature?night time aboute 19 c and at day time 21 c
What Nutrient's are you using? How much of each if using multiple? ghe 3 part
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? ec is 0.8(was lower)
What is the pH of the "Tank"?i try to be around 6 but it seems to go down overnight.. so between 5.5-6
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment? yes
When was your last watering? constantly aeroponics
When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional)
What size bulb are you using? 400 w hps for veg and 2 for bloom
What is the distance to the canopy? aboute 40-45 cm
What is your RH Factor? 35-50%
What is the canopy temperature?27-29 c
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range) nights 19-22c day 24-26c
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) got a 225 cmh fan vith filter... also got a 120 cmh for intake
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched ? no
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? no
Are plant's infected with pest's? no

 

[Homeless]

i can not say for certain, but it looks like a possible nute burn. Or it could be something to do with a nute lockout because of either too low or too high a pH.

Of course every plant likes different doses of nutrients...some may have a worse reaction than others because they are more sensifive...


it doesnt look like magnesium, and i feel that if you fine-tune your water, it will fix your problems.

When i did my hydro, I let it get too out of control and the result was the entire plant lookin nute burnt just like your little ones do with the yellowing and curling.

MJ Plants will uptake alot more water than they do nutes and your resevoir EC will increase daily usually... If you let it get too high, for even a couple hours, the results can be much like what you are seeing.

Adding the 2nd light may also have heated up the water too much. Hot water also causes alot of problems, mainly stoppin the uptake of certian elements and even over-fert of other elements.

 

[MynameStitch]

You want your ph to be around 5.5 to 6.3......

But yes you have a magneisum problem the tan stuff you see is tissue that died from the plant using the stored magnesium; I do not know EC to well and I do not have my EC TDS conversion chart.. does anyone know how much EC 0.8?
Also did you mix the 3 part correctly as instructed?

 

[R4st4]

its aboute 560 ppm, yea i mixed as the bottle sais

 

[MynameStitch]

Increase the magnesium and you should be alright

 

[Blackvelvet]

Gh 3 part should not require more magnesium. Its all how you mix it. Try 1/2 strength of 15ml grow, 10 ml micro, 5 ml bloom per gallon (3.8 liters) of water. This resembles hoaglands nutrient solution. Google that. So you would use 7.5 ml grow etc... This will give you about 100 ppm nitrogen.

Note that ppms of an individual element like n is totally different than what a ppm meter says.

You may also have to tinker with the amount of moisture that stays in the hydroton.

See the sticky in the hydro forum about calculating common nutrient solutions for more details on the gh 3 part. Lucas does a good job figuring ppm of the elements for you and the fact that extra mag should not be needed.

 

[MynameStitch]

No, but that is what he has 100% mag issue.

 

[10k]

Gh 3 part should not require more magnesium. Its all how you mix it. Try 1/2 strength of 15ml grow, 10 ml micro, 5 ml bloom per gallon (3.8 liters) of water. This resembles hoaglands nutrient solution. Google that. So you would use 7.5 ml grow etc... This will give you about 100 ppm nitrogen.

Note that ppms of an individual element like n is totally different than what a ppm meter says.

You may also have to tinker with the amount of moisture that stays in the hydroton.

See the sticky in the hydro forum about calculating common nutrient solutions for more details on the gh 3 part. Lucas does a good job figuring ppm of the elements for you and the fact that extra mag should not be needed.

For Blackvelvet...
Mel franks target profile isnt always right for every mj strain BV.
Some cannabis will require more mg than others. I've found that when using gh flora series 3 part nutes mixed the gh 123 recipe, almost always cannabis will benefit from added mg. Usually in the range of 1/8th to 1/4th teaspoon epsom salts added per gallon of final res mix. Of course calmag is a better choice, all depending on your starting water contents and res target strength.

That being said Blackvelvet, running a nute profile calc on whatever nute a grower plans on using IS a good guideline to know where the final nute 'coctail' will fall.
Most useful for the growers who mix those "everything but the kitchen sink cocktails" to see how messed up their planned cocktails may be. But, the best and final determination of whats best for the plant is NOT dialed in by reading someones profile spreadsheet...it's dialed in by "reading the plants"

ps... the Hoagland solution is a baseline refill recipe, having NOTHING at all to do with mj growing. Google that BV





Question for R4st4 :
I'm 100% sure its only a mg def we're looking at ...

What Nutrient's are you using? How much of each if using multiple? ghe 3 part

That answer missed the "how much of each if using multiple" ?
Please tell us how much micro, grow, bloom per gallon ?
When you upped the strength of your res from ec.5 to .8 or .9, how did you go about doing it?
Did you just add some gh concentrates to your mixed res ?
Do you see any fine chalky looking residue in the bottom of the res ?
Have you ever seen what looks like a slightly foggy or smokey looking chemical reaction happening while you're pouring the bloom or micros into the res mix ?

What is the pH of the "Tank"?i try to be around 6 but it seems to go down overnight.. so between 5.5-6

Are you adjusting that pH daily, and what chem using to adjust it?
Are you just dripping a pH up concentrate directly into the res or do you dilute it first with water before adding it to the res ?

 

[10k]

btw... pH is going down instead of up = a good indication your plants may need a lower ec.

 

[R4st4]

hey.. ive only used gh 3 part aboute 0.6 ml pr liter thats 2.2 ml pr gallon, i dilute nutrients and ph up b4 i have it in the res. when i upped nutes from 0.5 to 0.8 i did this over a few days, dont see any residuein the res


stitch: i got a bottle with liquid mg 16 % how much do u think i should use?

 

[MynameStitch]

DAmn 16%?? WHat kind is it?

Not sure considering it's liquid...... put like 1/2 teaspoon in a gallon of water and find out what TDS you get......

You do not want it to high.........

10K what do you think he should use like 100 PPM of it?
or a little more?

 

[R4st4]

yea its liquid epsom salt, it say 1 to 2 ml pr liter on the bottle, my res is 70 liters so it would be 70 ml if i used |1 ml pr liter

 

[Blackvelvet]

16% magnesium in the liquid?

Put about 9 ml in your 70 liter rez of the 16% liquid mag

That gives you about 20ppm more magnesium. About the same as suggested 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon epsom salt 10 k suggests per gallon.

Here's the math: Assuming 1ml = 1 gram... .5 ml in 3.8 liters (1 gallon) = .5 divided by 3.8 x .16 x 1000 = 21 mg per liter or 21 parts per million
You got a 70 liter rez so 70/3.8 x .5ml = about 9ml

 

[Blackvelvet]

Just want to add...

If the liquid epsom salt is 16% epsom salt not 16% magnesium, multiply what I showed before by 10. So we found you needed about 9 ml for a 70 liter rez x 10= you would use 90 ml ; that sounds about like your bottle directions

Good luck!

 

[MynameStitch]

Dude I would use 1 tsp per gallon of water for those size plants....

4ml/gallon 1tsp/ gallon
Res size= 70 liters= 18 gallons
amount= 72 ml/14 teaspoons per 70 liters

So you would use 14 teaspoons if you use 1 tsp per gallon




THat is if you are using the full 70 gallon res.......
Liquid is more soluble than regular granulated epsom salts if I remember correctly....

 

[10k]

r4st4,
Oh geez, typo city... I meant to say "I'm NOT 100% sure it was a mg problem" in my post above where I asked about your mixing & pH'ing strategy. Now I'm Even more unsure than before based on that answer you gave. Sorry about that.

hey.. ive only used gh 3 part aboute 0.6 ml pr liter thats 2.2 ml pr gallon, i dilute nutrients and ph up b4 i have it in the res. when i upped nutes from 0.5 to 0.8 i did this over a few days, dont see any residuein the res

So anyway R4st4, based on /\ that answer...
I'm still scratching my noggin wondering what ratio your running (x parts micro, x parts grow, x parts bloom), unless you're literally saying that you're mixing it as 2.2ml OF EACH per gallon, which would be a 111 ratio ?
(IE: 1 part grow, 1 part micro, 1 part bloom (part size = @ 2.2ml per gal)
A 111 ratio where you're also adding pH up before adding to the res would be out of whack for mj.

Perhaps I misunderstood your vague answer, because previously you said you were mixing per gh's suggested ratio (which would have been the correct 321 ratio) ?

For more clarity on the mg...
My suggested dose of 1/8th to 1/4th teaspoon epsom per gallon is based on a gh 321 'vegging ratio' mix where 5ml is the part size, all mixed in a separate mixing drum and this recipe is then diluted to the growers desired ec before putting it in the res.


Stitch,
If he's running the gh 321 vegging ratio and I'm just confused by r4st4's answer, then I'd add some more mg. I'm a lil bit too buzzed to do any math or calcs on that liquid mg though. shooting for 15 to 30 more ppms mg per gallon. I guess I'd go with the 20ppm BV did the math on, but he's shooting from the hip too because its not clear if its 16% mg liquid or 16% epsom salts solution. Talk about throwing a wrench in the works eh.
Things would be so much easier if r4st4 had a bag of epsom salts instead of the vaguely described "liquid epsom salts"

If he's running 111 ratio and adding a hit of pH up (potassium hydroxide) before adding it to his res...then phuck.... "mongo not know"

 

[R4st4]

hey it was 7 % mg not 16 my bad sry.

 

[R4st4]

10k: on the bottle it say ratio 1:1:1 in veg stage, 321 would be the flower it say for veg : 0.6 fgro pr/l
0,6 fmicro pr/l
0,6 fbloom pr/l

bloom : 0.5 fgro
1 fmicro
1.5 fbloom