Anaerobic cure: anyone tried it?

[Cap. Greenbeard]

Very interesting thread but I must admit that this is all way beyond my understanding. I am a smoker for 14 years and am just now setting up my first grow. I have been doing quite a bit of research into growing for the past 2 years leading up to the grow room I'm now setting up and I pretty much have the basics about cannabis cultivation covered so I have started doing research into curing and... Well, there's a lot of conflicting info out there

The basic curing process of burping the jars and everything seem quite straightforward even though everyone seem to do it a bit different from each other in terms of how often they open the jars and for how long etc. and there's quite conflicting info about what the optimal RH and temperature is for curing and I have read in some places that the opening and closing of the jars (burping) should be kept to a minimum due to the "fact" that there's anaerobic bacteria that breaks down chlorophyll, sugars and starch in the buds and as they are anaerobic they need an air free environment in order to do their thing. These sources say that this is basically what curing is all about and the only reason for burping the jars is to let excess moisture out in order for the buds not to get mold. I then found Boveda and I guess all you experts in here are well aware of their products but just in case there are people who don't know - Boveda produce humidifier/dehumidifier packs, mainly for cigar enthusiasts (as far as I've understood their business plan) but they have also made one product specifically for storing of cannabis. This pack keeps a stable RH at 62% which (according to them) is the optimal RH for cannabis. However, they say nothing about what temperature they should be used in and as I have understood RH it's relative to the temperature i.e. warmer air can hold more moisture and colder air can hold less, which means that their claim of 62% means absolutely nothing if they can't say in what temperature 62% RH is optimal.

Anyway, my thoughts were then - if curing mainly consists of an anaerobic bacteria that breaks down chlorophyll and I could use the Boveda pack to keep this "optimal RH for cannabis" (that is - in the right temperature, if I ever get any answers from them about it) this would mean I wouldn't have to burp the jars at all. Just sit back, let the anaerobic bacteria do its job and the Boveda pack do its job and after a month or more the cannabis would be acceptably cured, ready for smoking.

Now, this thread got me thinking I might have misunderstood the whole anaerobic bacteria thing about curing so I'd love to hear what all you experts have to say about this.

 

[Only Ornamental]

Hi Greenbeard,

What I did is completely different, it's chemistry, not biology . Anyway, it didn't work out that well...

Anaerobic cure in a biological sense (otherwise called fermentation) is different and does for example take place with the weed wrapped in corn cobs and then buried for some months. I did work with anaerobic bacteria and have a little experience with lactic fermentation: If you burp a jar every few days without anything to chemically or biologically remove oxygen, there will not be any anaerobic fermentation. A certain type of fermentation may take place but since when does cured weed smell like vinegar or yoghurt?

Chlorophyll and the like break down by the plants own enzymes which show a residual activity at high enough humidity. It should be below ~70-80% rel. humidity or else microbes start growing and it won't dry, below ~60-70% on the other hand stops enzymes from working and the drying process will be very fast. Around 60% results in a nicely burning/smouldering end product and keeps it in good shape for a long time and allows it to dry slowly. Does it really cure (ferment)? Only as long as the water content is high and it's a sort of self-digestion (autolysis) rather than real fermentation. Does it get better once dry? I'd say it's like with wine... some get better with age, others spoil.

Humidity packs work like saturated salt solutions. Plain (wet) cooking salt has roughly 75% rel. humidity over a broad temperature range. I simply take a small jar, put some water in it and add enough salt so that not all gets dissolved. Place that open jar in a bigger container results in a constant 75%. It doesn't really matter how much water in an absolute sense the air contains because most chemical and biological processes depend solely on relative humidity (and temperature).
BTW ammonium nitrate has ~63% and is rather temperature insensitive. It's one of the standards for saturated salt solutions used in humidors and the like .
These packs for cigars and humidors have the simple advantage of being solid (or rather a saturated liquid either adsorbed to a porous solid or bound as semi-solid gel).

If you want to see a real anaerobic microbial cure that works in the presence of air, you'd need facultative anaerobic microbes such as lactobacillus. You can probably buy these as lyophilised granules as inoculum for yoghurt. Alternatively, take baker's yeas and pour some over your herb. I would say that the end product will be something for the garbage bin .
True anaerobic cure will require complete removal of oxygen (because even traces of it kill the respective microbes); either the way I did (which kills them too but due too much hydrogen) or for example by adding aerobic microbes in a separate flask on some growth medium. These will use up all the oxygen allowing anaerobic microbes to grow. The VERY BAD thing here is that many of the common anaerobic bacteria which 'contaminate' things around us and which will probably grow on your herb are HIGHLY TOXIC and POTENTIALLY LETHAL (like Clostridium sp.)! A way around is to inoculate with a 'good and harmless' strain such as certain propionibacteria (they produce propionic acid which exhibits preservative action but unfortunately smells somewhat like old sweat and goat).

 

[TheArchitect]

So I've done an anerobic cure before, but I went about it using traditional methodologies bolstered by modern technology.


I dried the product to about 50% of what I normally would, ie the stems still had quite a bit of moisture, but the flowers exterior was slightly crisp, almost like it was dried too fast. Next, I placed about 4 grams into a vacuum bag, then vacuumed and sealed it. For the next 7-10 days I walked around with it in my pocket to aid/speed the fermentation. After a few days I could see the changes begin, the plant matter became dark green from being pressed, but it began to turn to a blackish green as the days went on. By day 10 it was almost totally black, so I opened the package hesitantly, but was greeted with a relatively pleasant odor of sweet fermented plant matter, not the ammonia of actively fermenting material. The next logical step was to finish drying it and smoke it, so we did, it was odd, but not bad. I think there absolutely could be a market for it one day, however limited it might be.

Sorry I don't have pictures, I have a harvest in a few weeks, maybe I'll give it a try again and document it.

 

[smurfin'herb]

I have certain strains that i enjoy with a fermented cure. Indiana bubblegum being one of them. Naturally, it has a very earthy, florally taste despite the crazy candy smell. After a fermentation cure, there is much more sweetness flavor to them. On top of that, this type of cure does provide a distinct look, aroma, and taste that comes with it usually. I enjoy it.

Dry the buds until its about time to sweat them out. You can either put them into jars at this point, or sweat them one time lightly if they are still too wet on the inside. After they are jarred, put them into a hot area like an attic in the summertime. If thats too hot or not feasible, store them in a top floor bedroom, and close/block the hvac register, then shut the door. Occasionally you will have to burp/turn the buds, but not nearly as much as when doing a normal cure this way. The burping times will vary depending on many factors, so you have to just kind of experiment with it. Be sure to rotate the bottom buds to the top every time you open the jars. Monitor for rot. Having a humidity gauge will help indefinitely. If you did it right you will know. You will see the leaves degrading, and it will have that certain smell to it. It seems to bring out the sweetness in cannabis, and provides a much smoother smoke as well. Remember, you can stop the fermenting process at any point by sweating them out normally, so keep sampling occasionally until you find your sweet spot. you can use rubbermaids for quantity, but you have to make sure they are in a warm area. If you have a cubic yard or more of flowers you can just pile them in a tent, and turn the stack when it gets warm. Think this whole process as a super super slow, and drawn out sweating period.

Another thing i have done is just hang buds in a flower room off to the sides of the hps lights. Seems pretty dumb right? After a long while, they will turn a pronounced yellowish color. Regardless of being exposed to light, oxygen, temperature, you would be amazed at how well some varieties smoke like this. Smooooooothhh, and its like smoking flavored air. Potentcy may reduced slightly from my experience. I have a lemon tasting sativa that i do this with occassionally. Its awesome!! Got some hanging as we speak.

 

[TheArchitect]

Here are some photos of the product I described above, still smokes decent even after over a year without proper storage.

 

[stoned-trout]

never tried it ..interesting subject tho

 

[Jhhnn]

Very interesting thread but I must admit that this is all way beyond my understanding. I am a smoker for 14 years and am just now setting up my first grow. I have been doing quite a bit of research into growing for the past 2 years leading up to the grow room I'm now setting up and I pretty much have the basics about cannabis cultivation covered so I have started doing research into curing and... Well, there's a lot of conflicting info out there

The basic curing process of burping the jars and everything seem quite straightforward even though everyone seem to do it a bit different from each other in terms of how often they open the jars and for how long etc. and there's quite conflicting info about what the optimal RH and temperature is for curing and I have read in some places that the opening and closing of the jars (burping) should be kept to a minimum due to the "fact" that there's anaerobic bacteria that breaks down chlorophyll, sugars and starch in the buds and as they are anaerobic they need an air free environment in order to do their thing. These sources say that this is basically what curing is all about and the only reason for burping the jars is to let excess moisture out in order for the buds not to get mold. I then found Boveda and I guess all you experts in here are well aware of their products but just in case there are people who don't know - Boveda produce humidifier/dehumidifier packs, mainly for cigar enthusiasts (as far as I've understood their business plan) but they have also made one product specifically for storing of cannabis. This pack keeps a stable RH at 62% which (according to them) is the optimal RH for cannabis. However, they say nothing about what temperature they should be used in and as I have understood RH it's relative to the temperature i.e. warmer air can hold more moisture and colder air can hold less, which means that their claim of 62% means absolutely nothing if they can't say in what temperature 62% RH is optimal.

Anyway, my thoughts were then - if curing mainly consists of an anaerobic bacteria that breaks down chlorophyll and I could use the Boveda pack to keep this "optimal RH for cannabis" (that is - in the right temperature, if I ever get any answers from them about it) this would mean I wouldn't have to burp the jars at all. Just sit back, let the anaerobic bacteria do its job and the Boveda pack do its job and after a month or more the cannabis would be acceptably cured, ready for smoking.

Now, this thread got me thinking I might have misunderstood the whole anaerobic bacteria thing about curing so I'd love to hear what all you experts have to say about this.

I think people believe & assert a lot of things about curing that aren't necessarily true but seem to fit into their heads. They try to establish cause & effect w/o the means to do so scientifically, but it sounds scientific. There's a lot of mythological belief, faith as fact & outright misunderstanding.

Simon's basic method leaves a lot of room for variation in the process. It's adaptable & somewhat forgiving. Wet trim or dry trim, hanging whole plants to dry vs trimming to buds while harvesting doesn't really matter. Drying over a period of several days matters, but it's not precise in changing home grower conditions. Too slow invites mold, too fast gives nasty taste, & too dry means its done changing. In & out of the jars & burping is just to get the jarred material to hold at 62% RH or thereabouts, avoiding mold in the process. Once you're there, it won't mold. Toss in a 62% boveda pack & tuck it into whatever cool dark place you have. That's just standard for storage of any dry herb material. Just leave it there for a month, as much as you can, anyway. From there, the texture, aroma & smoke evolve in an entirely pleasing direction. After a month or few, depending, the rate of change has fallen way off. Quite how or why any of that happens, I really don't know. At the personal grower scale, it's kinda like cooking or baking, developing a feel for it.

Try it. There's a broad range of doing it well, & it's worth the trouble for personal stash.

Edit- The permeable membrane tech in boveda packs is quite remarkable. There's always an interchange of water molecules across the membrane. At the specified humidity, the flow is balanced. When the RH in a sealed container goes down, like when the temp rises, then there's more outflow than inflow. When the RH increases as the temp falls, then there's more inflow than outflow. With slow temp changes, it's self correcting. Even though the temp in our vented crawlspace varies from high 30's to low 50's, the RH in the jars always reads 60-63 whenever I pull one out.