Advice Needed for First Grow Setup!

[Styr]

Hello all! I'm a pretty new person around these parts, but it's caught my eye none the less. Been lurking for a month or so, and it's about time I started on the path to perpetual bud.

That's where the advice part comes in.

I'm looking to do at least a soil grow for my first few times at least, for some experience at least. I've got quite a bit of space to work with, but I personally feel that smaller = better. Some may disagree, but I like to keep things discrete.

Anyhow, I'm wanting to pull about 3-4 ounces every 3-4 months to keep myself and my girlfriend in perpetual supply. I'm talking about average yield here, and not something that's dialed in to perfection. Anything more than 3-4 ounces in the time period would simply be used on me and my other friends. Stealth isn't a real issue, just odor - I'll be rectifying that with scrubbers and a pinesol waterfall (one of those small indoor waterfalls from the mall with diluted pinesol solution for a nice smelling room).

Would a space like Red_greenery's rubbermaid setup be sufficient? Or something like a cab with a 150-250 HPS flower chamber, along with a veg chamber and a mother chamber be better? I've seen some great looking cabs at Lowe's/Home Depot, but like I said, smaller is better in my case. I'd be using badseed for my first grow as to acclimate myself to the growing community, so that may or may not have bearing on yield. If it is, I'll nab some good seeds from a bank somewhere. NL x C99 looks like a tasty little strain to me, what would you guys think? Only real requirement for me is that I prefer sativa/indica hybrids.

I know people have achieved 7-8 ounces per harvest in one of the rubbermaid grows, but that seems like the exception rather than the normal - which is why I'm asking you guys for your opinion. I don't need lots of super dank super strain bud, just enough smoke to last in between harvests for me and my girl.

I am however, very very curious about the various hydroponic methods. DWC is probably one of my favorite kinds, simply because of how fast the little guys and gals can grow in them. Something I look forward to in the future after a couple grows in the ground.

Thanks guys!


Cliff Notes:

What would be an averaged sized soil grow box for an *average* of 3-4 ounces per harvest?

 

[cobalt]

keep reading , its all in here somewhere, try out groowroom design and equipment, helped me an am pulling 2oz today an 2oz next week, then a clone from next weeks plant, getting chopped in 4 weeks. am poor at it but learning all the time lol

 

[SweetIndica2]

Rubbermaid Grows are alright if your on a budget, but there isn't enough space for my liking. I prefered a cab when i use to do smaller stealth grows. The Rubbermaid's i had, which were pretty big could only fit about two 1 gallon pots in it, i would of had to use 2 liters or smaller to fit more than 4.

Heat will be an issue too, it depends on how small you go though. A rubbermaid container will get hot fast, because they aren't too big, although even a nice sized cab will need plenty of ventilation, even with a 250w HPS.

If your scrubber if setup correct, then you shouldn't need the pinesol waterfall, infact if theres no smell with the scrubber (which should be the case) then the pinesol waterfall would just add a noticeable smell which could attract attention, IMO it's better for someone to smell nothing, than a bunch of strong smelling pinesol.

Your yield depends on your growing skills, genetics, and growing conditions. Since i'm assuming it's your first grow, then .4 or .5g per watt would be a good goal to set for yourself. So, yes it's very possible to pull off 3-4 ounces per harvest, even for a fairly new grower.

I would grab a cheap pack of seeds from seedbay or growshopalien, but bagseed will work fine and are good for experimenting. You can get some good genetics for around $20-$30 a pack. Strain choice is personal preference, i would recommend some type of hybrid or indica though, since they will be easier to grow than a full out sativa. There are so many good strains and so many difference phenotypes from each strain that it's hard to narrow down specific ones, any seedpack could have a gem in it.

 

[Zoltan]

I am a box lover. I say a simple 2x2x5 or 3x3x5 would work. 150-250 (250 cuz soon enough you'll get hooked and will be expanding)

With wood boxes you can easily cut vent holes, and if for some reason their are light leaks you can silicone, or cover the cracks w/ 3mil trashbag and ducktape (a 1kw light can't shine through) I did that on the inside of my 5x5x7 box, and its still there (although I would recommend the outside)

A simple stanley blower for extraction (should do a non aircooled 250 nicely)
And an oscillating fan for circulation.

As for seed, there are plenty of great, cheap strains. Nirvana and Mandala are a good place to look.

And more importantly, Growroom Design and Setup forum, as well as the indoor soil grower's forum

*edit* And always shoot for more than enough. If you are left w/ excess put it in a jar and fuggedabout it, don't smoke it up

 

[Styr]

Rubbermaid Grows are alright if your on a budget, but there isn't enough space for my liking. I prefered a cab when i use to do smaller stealth grows. The Rubbermaid's i had, which were pretty big could only fit about two 1 gallon pots in it, i would of had to use 2 liters or smaller to fit more than 4.

Heat will be an issue too, it depends on how small you go though. A rubbermaid container will get hot fast, because they aren't too big, although even a nice sized cab will need plenty of ventilation, even with a 250w HPS.

If your scrubber if setup correct, then you shouldn't need the pinesol waterfall, infact if theres no smell with the scrubber (which should be the case) then the pinesol waterfall would just add a noticeable smell which could attract attention, IMO it's better for someone to smell nothing, than a bunch of strong smelling pinesol.

Your yield depends on your growing skills, genetics, and growing conditions. Since i'm assuming it's your first grow, then .4 or .5g per watt would be a good goal to set for yourself. So, yes it's very possible to pull off 3-4 ounces per harvest, even for a fairly new grower.

I would grab a cheap pack of seeds from seedbay or growshopalien, but bagseed will work fine and are good for experimenting. You can get some good genetics for around $20-$30 a pack. Strain choice is personal preference, i would recommend some type of hybrid or indica though, since they will be easier to grow than a full out sativa. There are so many good strains and so many difference phenotypes from each strain that it's hard to narrow down specific ones, any seedpack could have a gem in it.

Thanks for the tips! I know yield can vary a lot in any given situation with a lot of different factor that you mentioned, but at the same time, you can't expect 8 ounces from a micro PC grow, nor would you expect 1 ounce from a 400 watt HPS (although if you did, that would be abysmal). Yeah, I should've posted this in the Grow Room Design/Setup Forum, but I had a brainfart.

I know that genetics play a very large part in nearly everything pertaining to a grow, including odor, yield, etc. I'd rather cut my teeth on some bagseed that I have laying around, even if that dampens my yield somewhat. I do plan on using a good indica or indica-heavy hybrid next time around.

I am a box lover. I say a simple 2x2x5 or 3x3x5 would work. 150-250 (250 cuz soon enough you'll get hooked and will be expanding)

With wood boxes you can easily cut vent holes, and if for some reason their are light leaks you can silicone, or cover the cracks w/ 3mil trashbag and ducktape (a 1kw light can't shine through) I did that on the inside of my 5x5x7 box, and its still there (although I would recommend the outside)

A simple stanley blower for extraction (should do a non aircooled 250 nicely)
And an oscillating fan for circulation.

As for seed, there are plenty of great, cheap strains. Nirvana and Mandala are a good place to look.

And more importantly, Growroom Design and Setup forum, as well as the indoor soil grower's forum

*edit* And always shoot for more than enough. If you are left w/ excess put it in a jar and fuggedabout it, don't smoke it up

I'm starting to look more and more into cabs every day - either pre-assembled or built from scratch. I'm not a total idiot with carpentry and electrical skills, so it is something I am considering. [Ideally] I'd like to have one good sized cab that contains all the chambers/room needed for a perpetual grow. Maybe a 4x2x6 cab? I'm still in the planning process, so who knows where I'll end up.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[greenhead]

You mentioned NLxC99, I've been looking into that strain myself. It's supposedly low odor, NL is obviously a classic, and C99 is supposed to be a very nice and unique sativa. I've never bought from this place before ( so I'm not going to vouch for them), but I saw that exact strain at hempdepot for 45 bucks when I was doing my seed research. You might get lucky with a bagseed, but when you've invested all that money in grow supplies, lights, cabinets etc., you might as well pick up a pack of seeds, so you will at least know what you're growing, and how long you should grow it for and you will at least have some idea of what you're going to end up with. My 2 cents.

 

[Styr]

You mentioned NLxC99, I've been looking into that strain myself. It's supposedly low odor, NL is obviously a classic, and C99 is supposed to be a very nice and unique sativa. I've never bought from this place before ( so I'm not going to vouch for them), but I saw that exact strain at hempdepot for 45 bucks when I was doing my seed research. You might get lucky with a bagseed, but when you've invested all that money in grow supplies, lights, cabinets etc., you might as well pick up a pack of seeds, so you will at least know what you're growing, and how long you should grow it for and you will at least have some idea of what you're going to end up with. My 2 cents.

I may very well end up purchasing some good seeds for guaranteed genetics, however this being my first grow I almost want it to be a tossup of what gets grown, y'know? That way I can get the 'box of chocolate' feel, never knowing what I'm gonna get, but if it's grown by me, chances are it'll be better than what I'm buying.

That's just my opinion though. I'm sure many would disagree, but I think it's a rite of passage... at least for myself.

 

[Guest]

For someone new to growing you have good insight,someone to take my side in the never ending (bagseed or bought seed for first grow)threads that rear themselves like old faithful every fourth day haha.Growing blind is how I liken a newbie and a bagseed grow.This is not meant to be a pretext for battle haha,we have two days to go.

 

[greenhead]

I may very well end up purchasing some good seeds for guaranteed genetics, however this being my first grow I almost want it to be a tossup of what gets grown, y'know? That way I can get the 'box of chocolate' feel, never knowing what I'm gonna get, but if it's grown by me, chances are it'll be better than what I'm buying.

That's just my opinion though. I'm sure many would disagree, but I think it's a rite of passage... at least for myself.

I hear ya, and I'm not going to disagree at all, my first grow was also a bagseed. Either route you decide to go with will end up being just fine for your first grow, so good luck ! I was lucky that my bagseed was an indica at least, because some of those sativas can get rather tall and they also need to be flowered for a longer period.

 

[Zoltan]

How about one 3x3x6 box for flower. Then have another 4x2x6 box next to it for veg. You could shelf it off to hold nutes, and some for seedlings. Could probably squeeze 2 veg sections out of there (at 2ft). Use 4ft shoplight fluros to veg. That way you can get them to 1-1.5' tall for flower easy.

Again, a stanley blower (or similar) to vent the flower box, and maybe another (or pc fans) to vent the veg box.

Having 2 veg sections can really help out. Could convert one to hold bonsai moms, and the others to get clones ready for flower. You can still squeeze out that nute\equip holder as well as a seedling starter shelf section.

It would also be wise to pick up a complete line of one brand of ferts. Such as Advanced nutrients Sensi Grow/Bloom A&B, or going w/ some other company and nutrient regime. But choose one that is complete, and offers a schedule to stick to. And always start half strength. (Fish emulsion is really helpful for the first couple of weeks, till they get old/strong enough for regular nutes. Once you get used to it you can start messing around with different combos, bud boosters, teas and such.

 

[SweetIndica2]

Shoplights are alright, but i prefer something stronger for veg. While they are cheap, they are very inefficient and don't produce enough lumens to sufficiently veg more than one or two plants. I'd use either a T5 or MH, or even another HPS for veg. If you do need to go with a cheap route, you can fit a bunch of small cfl's in there.

Make sure they are light proof though if the veg and flower cab are going to be next to each other.

For nutrients, stick with a line that is simple to use. Advanced nutrients are very overpriced, and can be confusing for a beginner because of how many produce they carry (most are severely overpriced). Don't necessarily start on 1/2 strength either, most bottle directions are way off.

For example, Flora Nova says that 5ml is 1/3 strength of a normal dose, yet 5ml of flora nova could easily kill a young plant. Hell, most of my ladies can't handle any more than 6-7ml of the stuff without nute burn.

I personally recommend Flora Nova Grow and Bloom, or if that's a little too expensive you can go with the GH 3-part Grow, Micro, and Bloom. Both are made by the same company, and very simple to use. Flora Nova is expensive, but it's strong so you should only need a pint each of the grow and bloom. One pint is enough for me to feed 4 females all the way through flowering (60-70 days flower total) and still have some left over. Use the nute calculator from cannastats, you can figure out what PPM you want to be feeding your plants easily with it.

 

[Gangsta Lean]

shit i been using my quart of FN through 3 grows
probably will last me another 2
and i feed ever watering every day
my plants dont need much

but when i run out i going to use the 3 part
well just the micro n bloom
i want more control

 

[Zoltan]

Have you ever used shoplights before? I don't really know if they are T5 or not, but 2 of them (4 bulbs) raised up 6 plants to just over 1'. They were a month old and were extremely bushy. They could have stayed longer in there, but I only built the box to be 1.5' tall.

Its also not too hard to make your own "shoplight". I saw a thread where someone laid out all the tubes close together on a piece of plywood, had the ballast off on the other side somewhere. It was a wall of light, looked very good. But 2-3 of my fixtures is more than enough for 10 plants.

Just have to make sure the flower area is lightproof. In veg, it doesn't matter if there are light leaks at night, just need the days to be long. I never open the flower box during lights out, so as long as the flowerbox was made lightproof, it doesn't matter. (Still helps to lightproof for stealth reasons)

How can AN be confusing? Its Sensi Gro part A.... and part B. Then you have Bloom part A..... and part B. Well yeah, 4 different things. I just chose it to show you should get something that is "complete", so no defs will pop up. As experienced is gained, you can start to sift through the rest of their products, tailoring it to suit your tastes.
I tried AN once, and it is much better than what I use. I would happily pay the price, because in the long run, it will still be cheaper than buyin, with better quality to boot.

The less you have to use, the better. I haven't burnt at 1/2 strength with anything I've used, but for the first couple of weeks I use fish emulsion. Instead of regular nutes. I also use a "grower's gallon". Its a jug thats about 1.5 gallons, and I consider it a gallon.

Only reason I don't actively use AN is I live in the middle of the ocean, and to get it here it would cost about double the price. Now, at that price, I would compromise.

I use Dyna-Gro. Grow and Bloom. With a bit of Hi-N-Pro and Foilage Pro here and there. As well as worm castings, fish emulsion, and superthrive. Its all that is carried where I'm at and does a good job. Dyna-Gro used to be popular in the OG days, but has since dissapeared.

Its best to just search for Advanced Nutrients, Foxfarm, Flora Nova, Dyna-Gro, etc. Get a feel for what people think of them and pics of what is grown. When I get back to the states I will def go AN because there is so many different options, with a base feeding of Sensi Gro/Bloom.

 

[Styr]

How about one 3x3x6 box for flower. Then have another 4x2x6 box next to it for veg. You could shelf it off to hold nutes, and some for seedlings. Could probably squeeze 2 veg sections out of there (at 2ft). Use 4ft shoplight fluros to veg. That way you can get them to 1-1.5' tall for flower easy.

Truthfully, that would be a bit excessive, especially considering it's my first grow. I'm going to be building (or buying) something that can fit everything from mother/clones/flowering in one box. Please remember that I'm only growing for a personal stash for me and my girlfriend - and considering that we only smoke 3-4 ounces every 3-5 months (and that is mid-grade stuff, too!), we wouldn't even need that much to begin with. Thanks for the advice though!

Also, to everyone else talking about nutrients... I plan on using Fox Farm from a local hydro store, with just a basic soil mix I have laying around that has no nutrients in - it has some perlite in it, but a little more wouldn't hurt, either.

 

[greenhead]

Also, to everyone else talking about nutrients... I plan on using Fox Farm from a local hydro store, with just a basic soil mix I have laying around that has no nutrients in - it has some perlite in it, but a little more wouldn't hurt, either.

A pinch of dolomite lime wouldn't hurt either, as it helps stabilize the PH. Read up on it yourself, and if you think that it sounds like a good idea, then use it. When you feed your plants foxfarms Tiger Bloom, you'll see that the PH of the soil will drop like crazy. You'll need some PH up solution to correct that.

 

[Styr]

A pinch of dolomite lime wouldn't hurt either, as it helps stabilize the PH. Read up on it yourself, and if you think that it sounds like a good idea, then use it. When you feed your plants foxfarms Tiger Bloom, you'll see that the PH of the soil will drop like crazy. You'll need some PH up solution to correct that.

Yeah, I plan to grab a bag of that while I'm at Home Depot or wherever next. Good buffer I hear.

I planned on picking up these: Big Bloom, Grow Big and Tiger Bloom.

Do you think I'll need to get Cal-Mag+ to supplement my Fox Farm nutes or will it contain all the goodies I'd ever need? (aside from the dolomite)

 

[greenhead]

Yeah, I plan to grab a bag of that while I'm at Home Depot or wherever next. Good buffer I hear.

I planned on picking up these: Big Bloom, Grow Big and Tiger Bloom.

Do you think I'll need to get Cal-Mag+ to supplement my Fox Farm nutes or will it contain all the goodies I'd ever need? (aside from the dolomite)

Ah, sorry, I have no experience with Cal-Mag, I've seen it mentioned before plenty, but I've never used it myself. I'm only on my second grow, but I'm using two out of the three products which you listed, Big Bloom and Tiger Bloom. I only used them for flowering and for my first grow, those two were all that were needed for flowering, and I got some pretty decent buds from it, and the plant was plenty healthy (pix in my gallery for proof of what I'm saying, lol). I did have a slightly different soil than you are using though, mine had a few organic nutes in it like earthworm castings, bat guano etc., but I think that most of those nutes were probably used up by the time flowering came around.

 

[Guest]

If you're using R/O or dehumidifer water,you're going to need cal-mag.If your using tapwater containing calcium and magnesium maybe not.My tapwater was so calcified I couldnt see through my dogs bowl..Tiger bloom if a great flowering fert,big bloom is liquid worm doodie and is way overpriced for its own good.I use the tiger with LK it is nutrition aplenty.