Advanced Nutrients SensiCal+Mg - calcium deff

[bp420]

i was wondering how to use the Sensical+Mg.
i am currently using the sensigrow 2 part nutes at about 500ppm(.5) 5.7 - 6.1 ph in a 100lt recirculating DWC with 2x400w MH/hps lights and 20ppm starting water, and i have a calcium deficiency.

i was wondering how to go about using the sensical in my system....
do i add it in combination with the 2 part system?
should i use it as a foliar spray(what rate should i mix it at?)
should i drop 1 part of the A+B system, and substitute it with the sensical?
or???

has anyone here used sensical?

i have been looking on www.advancednutrientsmedical.ca/forums/ for an answer to this question, however the general response to people asking how to use the sensical over there has been that the base nutes(sensigrow A+B) should be enough and they shouldn't have a Ca deficiency and that its most likely PH lookout or something else.
however, currently every other aspect of my grow is in correct parameters, my temps, PH, PPM etc etc are all within range and stable - yet i still have yellow/rust/brown spots appearing on my newish and older fan leaves.

so yeah...any help appreciated

 

[sproutco]

Rust colored spots on your older leaves doesn't sound like calcium deficiency. With calcium deficiency, it usually affects the newest leaves at the top of the plant because calcium is not very mobile within the plant. Are you already adding calcium with your regular 2 part fert.? What is in the 2 part fert. in percentage of each element or in ppm? ex: 3.5% calcium. You would not use the cal/mag formula as a foliar spray but instead you could add it to your irrigation/fert water. Here is typical cal. deficiency symptoms on large leaves of tobacco. Notice only new leaves are affected giving them a distorted shape, downward cupping, and burnt tips. http://www.ipmimages.org/images/768x512/1402096.jpg

 

[bp420]

the rust spots first occur on newer growth, as that growth ages the spots get larger/more numerous.
some new growth manages to get by with very little rust spots, even very faint rust spots, and it will stay like that for a week or 2, then all of a sudden the spots will become more visible.

they seem to mostly concentrate on the viens running down the center of each fan leaf blade, or at the end of each blade(about the last inch of the leaf) as the leaf ages(2-3weeks) the rust spots will appear on the smaller viens that branch off the center vien and subsequentialy fill in the spaces which causes the leaves to go very crispy and twisted(prior to the spots completly taking over the leaf, they don't really twist. its progressive, as the leaf gets more spots, it dries out more, it twists more)

the picture of the Ca deff in mynamestich's sick plants guide is a perfect example of what a few of my leaves look like.

 

[bp420]

oh, and this is what in my nutes
http://www.advancednutrients.com/directions/sensi_grow_PA_directions.html
http://www.advancednutrients.com/directions/sensi_grow_PB_directions.html

 

[sproutco]

I think you already have enough calcium in the 2 part. I know you hated me saying that. Calcium deficiency 99% of the time would be margins and tips burning first because this is where the demand for it mostly would be...growing tissue. I think your problem could be a ph issue or root trouble. Looks like the 2 part is complete in the nutrients you are feeding your plant. I don't think you ever mentioned your temps. Also know that the labels have misprints in the numbers on the fert. For example it says .009% copper chelate and then lists total copper at .001% which doesn't make sense. Compare your plant to the picture mynamestitch uses for the beginning of ph lockout. It is toward the end of the article after it lists the nutrients. The leaf shows the spots along the veins like your describing rather than buring margins. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

 

[bp420]

well, i was originally leaning towards PH issues, however...i have none.
my PH is rock solid. i use rain water - 10ppm 6.8ph, once i add my nutes upto 500ppm my PH is at 6.1 so i never even use PH down. after about 1 day it settles to 6.0ish then over the next 2 weeks it will slowly drop to 5.8, then in the begging of the 3rd week it will drop all the way down to 5.25 over 2 or 3 days and then sit at 5.25. normally i drain my res when it drops like that and start all over again, however this time i am just going to leave it at 5.25 and see what happens.
my ppm and ph and water generally are all very happy. the only oddity is at the end of the second week it will drop.


some leaves have the spots on the viens, some look like the picture in the Ca deff - but the spots are always the same, little rust dots(exactly like the dots in the Ca deff picture)
i would have thought the 2 part system would have had enough calcium in it as well. but i've been using it for a little over 3 weeks now, and whilst i have seen a HUGE improvement in my plants (i mean...there acctually growing now! ) i still can't shake these little spots on the leaves.

would root rot cause something like this?

 

[bp420]

oh...speaking of temps..

my water temp is 17/18 celcius (65f give or take) my room temp is perhaps 20c +/- 5c

 

[jonnybgood29]

what are the color of your roots... it looks like root rot from your pics!

 

[sproutco]

Too cold. Could cause zinc, phosphorus, manganese, and iron deficiency. Root temperatures below 20 celcius change their behavior. Keep root temperature between 20 to 30 degrees celcius. Also raise air temperature to not more than 30 celcius. Here is the ph range for mj in hydroponics.http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/91934936ph-nutrient_chart.JPG If your ph gets to 5.25 you either need to change the rez water or add "ph up". Calcium is taken up by plants better at a higher ph range like ph 6.

 

[MynameStitch]

zinc and manganse deficiencys have never been seen in hydro, so i highly doubt thats it

how big are your plants and are you 100% sure its calicum?
how often are you checking ppm's and ph

 

[bp420]

no i'm not sure its 100% calcium. thats kinda why i am asking

PPM and PH gets checked every 24h. its a bit hard to say how big they are(cause there scrogged), or how old they are. they've been reveged and because of this deff or whatever it is, they haven't been growing very much. they were first planted feb, reveged may - been slowing growing since...

i ended up adding around 50ml of the sensical + folair spray(1ml/1L) every other day which has seemed to impove my leaves slightly, i acctually have a few fan leaves 2 or 3 nodes old with no damage (haven't seen that in forever).

i wont' raise my room temps, cause for the most part they are pretty reasonable, and the root zone is heated so the plants themselves should be able to take a little bit of cold. that and its coming into summer here soon so i'm not going to blow money heating when its going to be 50c in a month or 2 (whimpy english "boo hoo..its 36c were too hot"....joking..no offence to the english..well maybe a little ;P)

since i started using AN 2 part, and now the sensical, everything has taken off - however thats "taken off" compared to what it was, which was sweet fuck all growth

what i will do however is raise my water temp to 24c and see what happens in the mean time, if that clears up the remainder of the problem then i might even try dropping the sensical completely to see what happens.

 

[MTF-Sandman]

The temps are probably what's causing the slow growth...dunno what the spotting is though. Got any pics?

 

[sproutco]

I notice a change in my plants when they are too cold. 80 degrees (27 c) seems to really make them grow better. The water in the roots becomes less viscous (sticky) and flows better.

 

[bp420]

there some older pictures in my gallery, plants are a bit bigger now tho.

there are some pictures of some leaves with what looks like fert burn, thats been cleared up since then...