Advanced Nutrients, Love it or Hate it, State your claim!

[YosemiteSam]

It is sad. If you grow weed for a living you owe it to yourself to do some real research...what are greenhouse growers using (methinks not AN)...they make money selling their product for pennies a pound, they don't have the luxury of believing marketing.

I will say that ANs 3 part at 1-1-1 is not a bad formula at all, albeit about 10 times more expensive than if you mix your own. 3-2-2 is an even better formula as it provides more K. But when you chuck anything else into it you ruin the ratios.

But people are going to believe what they believe...I just think it is unfair for new growers to come in and think they need a shitload of stuff that is truthfully worthless. If we save one new grower from buying in to that bullshit then I guess these endless arguments are worth it. For anyone trying to decide please notice which side argues based on facts and which side argues based on emotion...and read the links.

 

[VagPuncher]

Agreed!

DMT, you're a real idiot. You should shut down your 420,000 watt grow op. These non-growers really have a point.

Same with Moonshine. Should close his 250 lighter since it's run on AN.

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=198778

 

[VagPuncher]

And before you all freak out and call me a AN rep, I use CNS17 for veg and Floranova for flower.

Why? Cause I get my nutes for free. I have more than I can use. I actually give them away for free, including ICMag members. Gave a sick member 3 23 liter tubs of Grow, Bloom and Ripe.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Thank you for proving my point Vag.

 

[Madrus Rose]

I think it has been established that the aminos used by AN come from either alfalfa or seaweed. But here is the deal...chelating metals with aminos is a very sophisticated chemical reaction. It is not going to happen because you chunk some seaweed in your bottle.

It depends on correct molar ratios, correct pH relative to the isoelectric point of the specific ligand you are using as the chelate and lastly what the hell do you with the anions that dissociate...companies that do this for real eliminate them entirely before you ever use them.

We are living in a fantasy world if we think you can just chunk some junk in your res and then magic will occur and voila...your metals are chelated.

Here is an example of what is really required http://www.scribd.com/doc/39860000/Pure-amino-acid-chelates-US-patent-4599152

So...I believe the aminos in Big Bud do very little to begin with (and in fact if they are not combined with something else to form complete proteins they make the plant more susceptible to pest attack and/or disease). The Mg was basically non existent as shown by the state of OR. So basically, it is nothing more than some cheap old MKP. And just to complete the irony...ANs 100s of PhDs would recommend relatively low P...add this to ANs 3 part formula and all of a sudden you have high P...DOH.

The placebo effect is strong amongst stoners.

Interesting link on the aminos ...research is fun isn't it ? Hydroponic formulas began to be pioneered back in the 1940's with specific nute ratio for each type of vegetable, fruit, nut well researched far back as well. Your point on the Dextrose component in the "CarboLoad" is truel spot on (can u say "rip off " ?)...for the price u would pay for one gal of AN's product u could make 10gals easily ...or maybe 20gals . (i'll let u do the molar math)

Below is a screen capture of some current bulk prices for some of the basic nutrient elements obtainable here in the US . If you were making any chemical salt based nutrient in solution (mostly water ) such as AN , GH , H&G , Canna etc etc ...your mark up is completely insane . These prices are US prolly cut down even further if purchased from China:

* Almost like some pot prices at a dispensary , lol...but far greater

 

[Madrus Rose]

The placebo effect is strong amongst stoners.

please pass the ag grade dextrose sugar cubes !



really is a high mark up industry , thanks to High Times , Internet & the hype buying
public

 

[Closet_Grower]

i dont see how AN is more expensive than any other line. I dont use every bottle though.

whats the better nutes then? that costs about the same?

I use AN but willing to try something else and see the difference.

 

[Madrus Rose]

Yep those are pricey. I can buy 25Kg bags of calcium nitrate for $3.50 (Ag Grade) by the pallet. In China you would pay less than $1.00 a bag by the ton.

MKP and MAP tend to be a bit more pricey and prices fluctuate but you're looking roughly at about $35.00 a bag from the right sources.

Keep in mind that you can make a hell of a lot of nutrients and additives from 25Kg bags.

That 1L of Big Bud would cost me about (rough guess) 50c to make. She's a high profit industry for sure - a joke and you people are on the receiving end while fat mike snorts coke and shags asian hookers.

Speaking of base chemical fertilizer companies try ticker symbol "POT " ..traded on the NYSE based in Saskatoon Canada . Had u bought stock in them 5yrs ago down around $20 you could have sold this stock only roughly 2yrs later for $250 during the Ethanol initiative in the USA.
You would have made an absolutely killing on it !! Think fertilizerCo are big business ?
http://www.potashcorp.com/about/overview/


<< PotashCorp is the world’s largest fertilizer company by capacity, producing the three primary crop nutrients – potash (K), phosphate (P) and nitrogen (N). As the world’s leading potash producer, we are responsible for about 20 percent of global capacity.With operations and business interests in seven countries, PotashCorp is an international enterprise and a key player in meeting the growing challenge of feeding the world.>>>


"POT" (Potash Corp of Canada) kinda of funny to see a major stock with ticker sysmbol POT !

 

[YosemiteSam]

i dont see how AN is more expensive than any other line. I dont use every bottle though.

whats the better nutes then? that costs about the same?

I use AN but willing to try something else and see the difference.

The easiest way to get started is with a 5-11-26 or 5-12-26 hydro special combined with CaNO3. It cost about 2.5 cents per gallon delivered to CO and performs flawlessly...all you have to do is dial in the N your plants prefer...somewhere between 120 and 150 ppm.

Here is a most excellent place to get started...http://www.jrpeterslab.com/

What does your AN formula cost per gallon?

 

[YosemiteSam]

I have made the switch to individual salts...but as a first step going with a 2 part dry formula will give most people the confidence to move on, particularly if they pay attention to the ppms for individual elements.

I also think there is a big place for supplying some things as foliar as well as in the nute solution. I have been experimenting with Ca (since it almost all comes from CaNO3 and the N is way more mobile than the Ca). I am on track to have my highest yielding crop ever using this technique.

I plan to take a look at Boron next. I don't quite understand the relationship it plays with Ca at this point...but the little bit of reading I have done makes it a most interesting subject imo.

 

[Madrus Rose]

good info, like the Peter's Lab link...Mulder's chart?

Boron is a tricky one because for many plants beginning symptoms
of toxicity start very low near 0.7 ppm (?) ...know grape growers are
very keen on watching boron levels which too much can interfere
with grape/fruit set .

Mulders Chart (very nice )
http://www.google.com/search?q=muld...ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLL_en

 

[Closet_Grower]

The easiest way to get started is with a 5-11-26 or 5-12-26 hydro special combined with CaNO3. It cost about 2.5 cents per gallon delivered to CO and performs flawlessly...all you have to do is dial in the N your plants prefer...somewhere between 120 and 150 ppm.

Here is a most excellent place to get started...http://www.jrpeterslab.com/

What does your AN formula cost per gallon?

Im just a hobby grower, not a scientist... no offense its just I meant what other "line" like GH or Canna or whatever would you suggest I use?

I wanna just get a few bottles Im happy with and tweak from there, but I understand where you are coming from and one day I hope I will be as knowledgeable as you.

I have always read and heard both sides of the AN argument, I started with AN so I dont have a comparison just that all my homeys who grow like my weed alot.

AN is about 40$ for you 3 part or 2 part sensi combo in 1 liter.... so x3 for the gallon I guess.... I dunno BB is 40 for 1 liter, OverDrive is same.... grow micro bloom around 10-15 each same with sensi....

I did see a GH organics box with all 6 or 8 bottles for $60 bucks... what up wit GH org. anyone?

 

[dmt]

Ah jesus now you're talking like an AN spam rep (way too many of them on forums). Ha ha ha ha (Jesus!!!).... 25% increase in yields and 25% increase in THC (farking hell that is truly amazing!!) - you're kidding right? What were you growing wih before. Water? Mate if that's the result of 25% increase in yields you must have been growing twigs before Hey man here's the formula for big bud. You don't have to make your own - I did the lab work for you.

Here's the formula

Methyl Paraben 2g/L

Sodium Benzoate 3g/L

Potassium Sulphate 53g/L (WTF they use this crap for I'll never know but thats what we came up with in the lab work)

MKP 35g/L

Whey Protein Hydrolysate (there's the malt smell folks) 7.5g/L

Citric acid 1g/L

Ascorbic acid 1g/L

Enjoy - I'll publish the 3 part formula soon

lol, thanks so much dude3 i love you. im amking my own bigtime lol, i would rather use hydroliazed organic soya the whey, as i find it more water soluable.

as for bein ga rep, im sorry i sound that way.

25% increase in yields means 25% more bud and had to smoke 25% less becuase of the quality.

nutes are like brands. some people like nike more then reebok, even though the nike dont fit the feet stubborn people will wear them lol. i let the results and my pain decide what works, not my growers ego lol.......

what i meant by 1:1:1 WITH GH IS INSTEAD OF GROWNG 3:2:1 OR 1:2:3 veg/flower ITS ALL EQUAL IN PPM NOT NPK LOL. oops not yelling caps were locked lol.

i dont mind paying becuase my results repay me 10 fold. i spend extra money on a raw organic diet, and dont mind reflecting that into my room. if the room, genes or grow sucks, even miracle grow wont work, but, if you are dialed in all areas, you will see the diff, d

 

[dmt]

ps whats the application rate, as its .5g per litre on the package. or is that a dry litre? which should be 4 cups......d

 

[mean mr.mustard]

 

[Bud Bug]

That 1L of Big Bud would cost me about (rough guess) 50c to make. She's a high profit industry for sure - a joke and you people are on the receiving end while fat mike snorts coke and shags asian hookers.

Well one thing you have to remember is that the pre made/packaged brand name food is just like any other product out there.

Look at say a pair of jeans, yes you could make them yourself but really are you? So you pay for the convenience of going to the store and buying them right there. No different then buying a set of AN/GH food

Now for product mark up/profit margin I can tell you that in the hydro industry its no where near what it is in regular retail.

That pair of $80 pants you just bought well they cost the stores $15. That $30 GH bloom 4L bottle you bought cost the store around $16-18 or less if they bought a container full of GH products but not too many stores do.

Yes there are substances like Dextrose or Mono Potassium disguised as magic high yield products with 3000% mark up once it hits the store shelves (remember a store will only make 30-50% on the item) but the rest are made for regular consumer that have no desire to mix their own in the basement.

 

[Gchem]

I would agree with about 99% of what you say here greenmopho. I am no plant biochemist but having had worked in various countries in agriculture and green chemistry I have a pretty good understanding. If hydro companies wanted to they could pretty much formulate everything into 2 or 3 liquid fertilisers at a reasonable concentration. Except of course any microbial products, which are really next to useless in the role of nutrition in hydroponics. They are however useful in the role of disease protection for plants.

Advanced nutrients do seem to be the leaders in marketing and outrageous claims but this is not owned by the hydroponics industry. There are more unscrupulous companies in the health & fitness industry than in hydroponics. For those who don't subscribe to all the hype you should just have a go at making your own nutrients. I have done for years and is really quite simple with a little bit of research, there is plenty of information out there.

 

[dmt]

You'll find it is exactly the same dilution as what the AN grow calendar says. I didn't even bother looking And its liquid Big Bud - not powder. Enjoy and if you want the exact same results stick to the formula.

okay cool, i didnt wanna assume that and blow a batch. you are the coolest guy on ic lol, d

 

[LIFEISGOOD]

Its like a tennis match.

I love it. Your dumb. Its bigger. No its not. Can't you see my results. Not thru rose colored lens. I converted a master grower. To hype. .....

I did think it was interesting that Moonshine only uses the Sensi A&B.

 

[Madrus Rose]

Its like a tennis match.

I love it. Your dumb. Its bigger. No its not. Can't you see my results. Not thru rose colored lens. I converted a master grower. To hype. .....

I did think it was interesting that Moonshine only uses the Sensi A&B.

Evl2me, the thread op & fertilizer/nute Mod , uses GH Maxi series one part & the KISS method .
wanna see, there's even pics put up just today !
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4176471#post4176471

Can pretty much guarantee that when using 5gals of rocks in E&F system , will produce some big monsters too with lots of lumens per/sq/ft with just about any nute base out there ...and have to remember that Canadians have a long history of breeding strains for shear size to begin with ....a long history .

There's been some good exchanges here in the last 24hrs ...some good links shared & one
thing for certain is that CarboLoad has been completely exposed/bunked as being
just high priced hype...more to follow .
eos

* Now the subject of that "DragonFlower" snake oil stuff & the PGR's ...like to see that discussion catch fire & find some answers too . Personally have alot of interests in carrying out my own tests in time with these , have no problems with that ... esp dmt's suggestions at using these at the 1-1-1 ratio with GH etc. Will def try sensi A&B too when time allows .

regards