A New Grower’s Perspective: Learning from ICMag (and maybe some other places)

[clongo]

The best thing I can say is read first. Don’t ask questions before you have sought an answer, solve your own problems step by step to learn the best way, with experience. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=186528 He learned to garden like that by observing what the masters do. 1 gpw is nonsense to these people because they are innovators and follow science and reason to a logical conclusion about the nature of their endeavor.

Upon learning that cannabis is a neuroprotective antioxidant that causes apoptosis in cancerous cells, I decided that there was nothing better than to become a proponent of this healing herb’s use. (Granny Storm Crow’s list) In addition, since it is controlled by an inflationary black market (microeconomics) and I myself need to use it, herniated disc, I should learn to produce it by the best means possible in terms of potency and yield per dollar spent and time invested, I decided to look into how this can be accomplished. I started this learning process many months ago and have reached my conclusions and come to share what mysteries remain unsolved.

There are two axes upon which to hang a bulb; vertically is the most efficient in terms of most “sweet spot” available in a given 3-D space, it is a waste of watts to reflect half of them off an imperfect surface first, it makes no sense. Heat is also more easily managed with only a fan blowing up towards the bulb towards the carbon extraction. But there are of course a few limitations to keep in mind such as large plant numbers, which can be avoided by adding more time in the vegetative state at the cost of more kwh, and the accompanied complexity of care and need of protective eyewear. I myself need a perfectly stealth grow-box and will explore many other situations new growers can face depending on the size and shape of the space they can devote to our little hobby.

For the stealth grow box nothing can beat building your own led panels (or buying either Advanced LED.com Extreme flower led’s or Grow LED Hydro because these are the only two I have seen grow reliably well) to create a stacked garden of Scrogs or Low Stress Trained Sea of Green’s, depending on your plant number situation. The Scrog either needs vegetative time in the flowering chamber, or more watts devoted to covering a larger vegetative space to add cycles per year. When you consider the power involved in removing the excess IR heat from HID lighting, it becomes a more expensive option in the long term.
Modular Scrog can be used to provide a perpetual harvest system in the same manner that Sea of Green can. Scrogs should always be in the same shape as the light field while calculating what distance the plants can be to the bulb while also considering the square footage yield per watt. Yield is determined heavily by number of plants or veg time given with large rootspace to individual plants.

One should always harvest the top of the plant before moving the lower buds closer in for a second harvest. Re-Vegging a keeper is always an option to look in to because there is no reason to believe that potency or vigor will be lost, just put them back under 20/4 which provides better growth rates and less watts than 24/0 but no one complains about 18/6 much either.
The only pot to grow in is the Air Pot. It has bigger yields per gallon soil, faster growth rates, removes the chance of over watering, and allows more aerobic micro-herd activity.

I personally do not recommend the use of hydroponics because of the toxic wastewater it typically produces. Also, do not buy Advanced Nutrients (scam scam scam scam scam scam scam) or the like (except maybe MaxiBloom, which happens to be a complete fertilizer better than the Lucas Formula https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=191645), I have seen these more expensive name brands consistently beat in size potency smell and appearance by Osmocote + and CalMag+ in a side by side. Additive organics works by the same mechanism, feeding the plants as they want it, a little at a time, no burn. This provides the best aroma and potency, because it allows you to slowly dry the plant before flushing and harvest. Beware compost teas, there is a link that explains it in there somewhere
http://www.puyallup.wsu.edu/~linda%20chalker-scott/horticultural%20myths_files/index.html

A very easy and scalable watering and feed system I am fond of involves 3 gallon airpots, bottoms filled with 2 inches of chunky perlite to wick water into a layer of rockwool cubes to separate the perlite from the soil, which is where you keep your preloaded nutrients, which release with heat and microbial action, not by soil drenching. There’s an organic hydroponic design that’s similar that I think I saw on icmag, not sure though. But you use the aquavalve of the autopot system to flood the tray the size of your grow area. It doesn’t add heat to the grow room with pumps, so it is much better than an active flood drain economically speaking. This would make for easy watering of a many plant system, and you can move them along in the trays to other rooms if you are dispensary sized.

Now for the mysteries. Phytochromes and cryptochromes affect the morphology of cannabis. They are triggered by particular spectrums. Blue light is a day/vegetative trigger, red/far red is a sex/metabolism trigger, etc. One myth I would like to see ended is that UV light makes more potent weed, all it does is degrade thc, making the weed stonier, I have seen posts that deny its validity and explain faults in existing trials. Please DO NOT USE UV LIGHT WITHOUT PRECAUTION. Sunglasses and suntan lotion. Don’t blind yourself with greed… happy trails into exploring the strange frontiers of cultivating this wonderful plant!

 

[FreezerBoy]

Paragraphs would be nice.

 

[mage]

Sunglasses and suntan lotion.

I quite like this idea as it could mean that everytime i take a trip to my grow room i can pretend i am going to the beach! xD

 

[cirog]

From what I have read, the uv light does not act in a degrading way to increase potency. It is the plants " Suntan Lotion" Just like you have said to protect yourself you should use some if using UV, the plants try to do the same thing and pump out more resin in the form of trichomes to protect itself. I have recently started a trial with and without, so only time will tell if it improves potency enough to be worth it.

 

[Moots]

Ok, so this thread started ok. Read, find your own answers, it's the best way! Then it turned into, now I'll tell you the best ways.

A couple things I'd like to point out.

"Beware of Compost Teas"
- The links on that page mostly talked about its ineffectiveness as pesticide, and to prevent disease, not about potency and yield, which you were talking about. And seeing as the ability to deliver nutrients via Compost Tea is scientifically verifiable, your statement is incorrect, and the link provided not relevant.

"Yield is determined heavily by number of plants or veg time given with large rootspace to individual plants."
- Considering the variety of sizes, yield potentials, the ability to force flower, etc, I find it hard to believe plant numbers is a good indicator of yield. Lets take a look at the most basic possibility. 1 plant. Plant A is vegged for 1 month, Plant B for 2 months. Yield is different. Plant as is a low yielding strain, Plant B is higher yielding, yield is different.

I think estimating yields depends mostly on grower experience. How much do you normally pull down, how much has this plant pulled for you before, how has certain changes in your setup effected growth prior etc.

"I personally do not recommend the use of hydroponics because of the toxic wastewater it typically produces."
-Except of course organic or veganic hydro systems I assume you mean? Have you ran hydro, both organic and non organic?

"One myth I would like to see ended is that UV light makes more potent weed, all it does is degrade thc, making the weed stonier, I have seen posts that deny its validity and explain faults in existing trials."
-I love the fact that you dismiss any claims questioning the validity of UV light, despite that these "trials" are not being done in laboratory settings, fully controlled and repeatable, so none of the trial's results can be 100 percent accurate, and thus any questioning of the results is just as valid as the results.

You also refute the "myth", with shaky or no evidence. It just degrades THC and makes weed stonier. What proof of this do you have, where are your laboratory trials?. Also maybe you want a high CBD POTENCY, for medical conditions. If UV degrades THC into CBD, and the weed is stonier, then potency has indeed increased. Just not in THC. It all depends what you are looking for in your herb.

Some think that the reason weed grown at higher altitude has higher THC percentages, is a way to defend itself from UV rays. Even if the plant increased THC production to cope with UV, and some of it degrades into CBD, it still increases THC production at some point. And thus if you controlled your UV light source, you could help your plant increase THC production, then cut out the UV light to reduce the degradation of the extra production.

Sorry to be a jerk, but this thread read like you read a bunch, did some research, and then set out to settle all the old arguments. Maybe you can solve coco vs Rockwool next.

I, like you read a lot. For a long time before I popped my first seed. Just one plant. In soil with the basics.

While I learned about every type of grow, and all aspects of growing that I could, despite all of that knowledge, the only thing I could speak accurately on, is my one plant, CFLs, soil and the nutes I am using. As my experience dictates, everything else is just opinion, not observation.

 

[simon]

If I had to give just one piece of advice to a new grower, it would be to keep things as simple as possible. I mean simple. Ever notice how many new growers come to a forum, find a soil mix posted in a thread, and then 2 weeks later are seen in the Infirmary chasing down issues? The same goes for virtually every aspect of the process. Use as few inputs as possible to achieve a given goal until you zero-in on a frame of reference. For example, given a choice between a nutrient system consisting of multiple products mixed per a given need, or a single, complete fertilizer for veg and another for bloom, choose the easier/simpler option. Good luck.

Simon

 

[pinecone]

If I had to give just one piece of advice to a new grower, it would be to keep things as simple as possible. I mean simple...... Use as few inputs as possible to achieve a given goal until you zero-in on a frame of reference. For example, given a choice between a nutrient system consisting of multiple products mixed per a given need, or a single, compile fertilizer for veg and another for bloom, choose the easier/simpler option.

I agree 100%, but there is an entire industry (MJ marketed hydroponic fertilizer) that attempts to make things more complicated so that they can sell more product. How is a new grower to resist buying the special additive that is going to make the buds so much sweeter and heavier? It is only $20 bucks a liter.

Pine

 

[kcbudz31]

I run hydro and have *zero* wastewater. Hempy KISS method. Food for thought, nothing can be pigeonholed and dismissed out of hand.

 

[clongo]

hydro

hydro

I also don't recommend it because of how easy it is to lose a crop to a power outage or ph fluctuation with aeroponic or nft. organic soil with a soilless base in a tray allows for the cycling of the ph in the soil with wet to dry, allowing for uptake of all nutrients while simulating nature. superthrive, advanced nutrients, foliar feeding, are all scams by people who want to sell you somthing. i used blue mountain organics teas in my own grows when i didn't use osmocote + and the yields were slightly worse than the crf, but it was a very good result. i used 1 gallon airpots and get 1.5 oz to the square foot scrogging with cfls and no CO2. 2 oz with the crf.

 

[clongo]

I run hydro and have *zero* wastewater. Hempy KISS method. Food for thought, nothing can be pigeonholed and dismissed out of hand.

maxibloom and hempy are great if you have fun measuring ppms and such, but i prefer something simpler, it works great though, just drill a damn hole haha

 

[clongo]

hmm

hmm

Ok, so this thread started ok. Read, find your own answers, it's the best way! Then it turned into, now I'll tell you the best ways.

A couple things I'd like to point out.

"Beware of Compost Teas"
- The links on that page mostly talked about its ineffectiveness as pesticide, and to prevent disease, not about potency and yield, which you were talking about. And seeing as the ability to deliver nutrients via Compost Tea is scientifically verifiable, your statement is incorrect, and the link provided not relevant.
i used compost teas as nutes before blue mountain organics, but its hard to keep a healthy microherd with liquid ferts applied as a diluted concentrate all at once. solid organics works better with a microherd, rather than against it like a concentrated tea can.

"Yield is determined heavily by number of plants or veg time given with large rootspace to individual plants."
- Considering the variety of sizes, yield potentials, the ability to force flower, etc, I find it hard to believe plant numbers is a good indicator of yield. Lets take a look at the most basic possibility. 1 plant. Plant A is vegged for 1 month, Plant B for 2 months. Yield is different. Plant as is a low yielding strain, Plant B is higher yielding, yield is different.
all else being equal because we have expectations from other grows for particular strains a generally constant environment and simple fertilizing regime, total rootspace is a very big determining factor of yield. rootspace can be achieved rapidly by planting many plants, or more slowly by vegetating a plant longer.

I think estimating yields depends mostly on grower experience. How much do you normally pull down, how much has this plant pulled for you before, how has certain changes in your setup effected growth prior etc. true, but all else being equal, their light distribution and rootspace are linked with yield.

"I personally do not recommend the use of hydroponics because of the toxic wastewater it typically produces."
-Except of course organic or veganic hydro systems I assume you mean? Have you ran hydro, both organic and non organic? i have not but saw a comparison grow in an airpot versus dwc and the airpot won in terms of yield per khw, so I am going to stick with the airpots till i see otherwise.

rootbinding is a very stressful thing for a plant and is a limitation of many container growers that makes hydro look so much better in terms of yield and growth rates. but when you combine the best aspects of both, you really win with ease of use and yield per gallon of medium and kwh.

"One myth I would like to see ended is that UV light makes more potent weed, all it does is degrade thc, making the weed stonier, I have seen posts that deny its validity and explain faults in existing trials."
-I love the fact that you dismiss any claims questioning the validity of UV light, despite that these "trials" are not being done in laboratory settings, fully controlled and repeatable, so none of the trial's results can be 100 percent accurate, and thus any questioning of the results is just as valid as the results.
the results are repeatable.

You also refute the "myth", with shaky or no evidence. It just degrades THC and makes weed stonier. What proof of this do you have, where are your laboratory trials?. Also maybe you want a high CBD POTENCY, for medical conditions. If UV degrades THC into CBD, and the weed is stonier, then potency has indeed increased. Just not in THC. It all depends what you are looking for in your herb. thc degrades into cbn not cbd. its the amber in the trichromes. cloudy is mostly thc and some degradation. clear trichromes is that short creeper high from cbd, a precursor.

Some think that the reason weed grown at higher altitude has higher THC percentages, is a way to defend itself from UV rays. Even if the plant increased THC production to cope with UV, and some of it degrades into CBD, it still increases THC production at some point. And thus if you controlled your UV light source, you could help your plant increase THC production, then cut out the UV light to reduce the degradation of the extra production. oldmac did a very, very good comparison with uv and it did not increase potency, which is all dependent on phenotype. it did increase the rate of trichrome color change, which is thedegradation of chemicals/ and the effects of more energetic photons triggering different morphology in the leaves (thickness). far red and red are responsible for the sexual expression. rauber and salmayos cannabis specific research.

Sorry to be a jerk, but this thread read like you read a bunch, did some research, and then set out to settle all the old arguments. Maybe you can solve coco vs Rockwool next. rockwools not environmentally safe. coco. lol

 

[FreezerBoy]

rockwools not environmentally safe.

Care to explain?

 

[I.M. Boggled]

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

maxibloom and hempy are great if you have fun measuring ppms and such, but i prefer something simpler, it works great though, just drill a damn hole haha

Now thats funny, most folks I've met (sick,old people) that grow with the Hempy/ Global style buckets have never measured the ppm of anything, ever, let alone having a big bundle of fun on Saturday night measuring the parts per million of various things for amusement, let alone "doing" their Ph. Okay, okay, i'll give ya the "fact" some people do measure their Ph for fun.
In fact, by personal observation, many just use tap water and one teaspoon (+/-) per gallon of Maxibloom and run to waste and lo and behold, like magic, it just simply works, the key word here being simply as in very uncomplicated.
I used to say the Hempy Bucket was absolutely, positively idiot proof, but as it turns out the good Lord keeps making making bigger and better idiots, so I no longer state that as a fact.

Happy Gardening Y'all,
IMB

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

soil less

soil less

Don't forget dolomitic lime. Most bagged potting mixes I've tried are less than 6pH. Generally, 1 tablespoon of lime per gallon of soil less will sweeten the mix to mj range. Moistened, limed mix allowed to steep for 6 to 8 weeks prior to planting makes for trouble free growing.

Peat heavy mixes might require more lime, up to two tablespoons per gallon of mix. Be careful not to over apply. Too much lime is hard to counteract unless mixed with more peat, impossible to do this after roots are established.

Avoid large amounts of composted pine products. Ingredient labels list according to highest percentage in descending order.

Like Simon and others have already mentioned, start with a complete base fert. Familiarize yourself with the results before considering additives. Base nutes typically contain enough Ca and Mg (as long as pH is in range.)

 

[jm420]

Who are you to sat advanced nutes are a scam?Have you used them? And maxibloom is GH not advanced .I personally think you still have alot more reading to do.Yes i know my grammer sucks but i kno howw to read.BTW thers alittle Lucas for you.All from READING here at ICMAG.