A lone Acapulco Gold, preserving in seed?

[centr1fuge]

Hi friends,

This will be a long post because I want to get it right.

Assume you start off with three different NLD strains. Assume also, that one of those strains is the Grand Empress herself. The mindblower of mindblowers. The Carl Sagan of Cannabis. Thoroughbred Acapulco Gold. But you have one plant of it, a very potent female.

Next, you have one plant of CBG destroyer. It's a female. I don't know much about the variety of Destroyer phenotypes, but this one is fairly short and squat, with darker iridescent purplish-green leaves, orange and white mixture of pistils, and dense dense dense flowers with quite the snowcap. You've even seen it make a friend puke when they decided to mix it with the evil spirits, but you enjoy it, because the NLD types seem to affect you differently than your friends with whom you share.

Well, so far, that's helpful for cloning, but not for sowing the love, so to speak.

Next, you have a few plants of Maui Wowie. Two of them are male. You let them open pollinate the Destroyer and the Acapulco Gold.

You revegetate the Acapulco Gold mother and move her into a 5 gallon bucket for a more focused harvest, because you aren't an idiot, and you flower some small clones of the Destroyer. You also planted several of the Maui Wowie x Acapulco Gold seeds. Germination rates were just ok, but one of them turned out to be a strong, virile male. After harvesting mature Acapulco Gold colas, the male is allowed to pollinate the remaining younger, lower flowers, as well as pollinate the flowering Destroyer clones. Now you have well-seeded mothers with maturing seeds of:

(Maui Wowie x Acapulco Gold) x Acapulco Gold
(Maui Wowie x Acapulco Gold) x CBG Destroyer

and You also still have the mothers for future use:

Acapulco Gold
CBG Destroyer

The goal is to make plants that are as identical to the mother Acapulco Gold as possible, if not indistinguishable. It's possible in this scenario you will never see another seed of the true strain.

So, how do you move forward?

Do you forget about the seeds you've made, and try to hermaphrodite or colloidal silver an Acapulco Gold clone, then backcross to the mother to get normal plants?

If not, what would be your strategy moving forward with the seed you've made and the mother plants?

MUCH much gratitude.

 

[Happy Times]

This might have some useful info


https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=363531

 

[NEED 4 SEED]

Ok, I am in a comparable situation. I have the last remaining plant of a seedline I made from my GH Super Silver Haze from 2011. Crossed to a Dutch Passion Blueberry male. The male was weak, to begin with and the mother line was pretty unstable for the good traits. Only the one SSH was dank. Now I am left with the last surviving plant and it doesn't look like the mother but its too early to tell really. What I will do with her is to try to self her with herself and grow the offspring out. Theoretically and practically it has 50% of the mother's genes. I will look in that offspring for more convincing phenotypes and then will look further, probably making feminized f2 generations . I also have other outcrosses of some males and females of this f1 generation and lets see what that brings to hunt through them. So what I am saying is, I will try several routes to get back to the phenotypes I've lost.
The same happens with a Cheese line from Dinafem. I have only just a handful of plants, the last survivors of an f1 generation of 4 source Cheese plants. Of parent plant #2 exist two f1 plants, one male and one female which seem to have a few traits of their mother. So I will f2 these two together and then screen their offspring. I am also already trying to self the female of the two. Hope that works out.

 

[xavier7995]

I would think cubing it or using whatever method to make s1 seeds would be the methods to consider. Given that you have that first round of seeds done, i would go the cube route. So i would go with the (MW x AG)xAG and cross males from that back to the clone mom. Each generation, just take the males that show what you want and hit that original mom.

Selfing would probably be quicker and seems to be the prefered method for this sorta stuff nowadays though.

 

[yesum]

A clone of the mother Acapulco Gold treated with CS is what I would do. Easiest of the ways as far as I know.

 

[WelderDan]

Clone the shit out of the AG to start with. Make sure you have several rooted cuts and consider having someone you trust hold a cut as backup.

As was already mentioned, you can cube it (keep back crossing the males from each generation to the original cut) as well as selfing it with STS.

The cube method is the simplest, but you will still have some Maui genes in there that will pop up now and again no matter how many times you back cross to the original. The drawback to selfing with STS is no males

Honestly, as long as you are careful in your selections, cubing it should get you pretty close to the original

 

[troutman]

This is why people should make seeds with rare stuff before growing it all out for weed.

It's what I do.

 

[grayeyes]

Get at least five seeds and pop 'em. Grow them out and when a foot or so tall flip them.
When you see who is male or female then set aside the males to grow somewhere else.
When the boys start growing balls let them ripen up. When ripe take a cutting and put it in water on top of a piece of paper. In a few days the pollen will fall. Scoop that up and put in a bowl to dry for a day or so. Now go buy a cheapie make up brush.

When the females have been in flower for 2 to 3 weeks dust them with the pollen.

You won't have to worry about doing contortions for seeds or that strain ever again.

 

[Happy Times]

I would think cubing it or using whatever method to make s1 seeds would be the methods to consider. Given that you have that first round of seeds done, i would go the cube route. So i would go with the (MW x AG)xAG and cross males from that back to the clone mom. Each generation, just take the males that show what you want and hit that original mom.

Selfing would probably be quicker and seems to be the prefered method for this sorta stuff nowadays though.

Well said

 

[satva]

"The goal is to make plants that are as identical to the mother Acapulco Gold as possible, if not indistinguishable."

Selfing - S1 fixes about 50% of the dominate traits of the Acapulco Gold mother. Select females from the S1 seeds that resemble the Acapulco Gold mother. Grow all the pheno-types that you find in the S1 seeds. For the S2 - either reuse the S1 pollen or self your selections from the S1 females that you like. S2 fixes about 75% of the desired traits of the original AG mother.

S3 fixes about 88% of the desired traits of the original AG mother. If you keep selecting progeny that have the desired traits of the AG original mother, by S4 / S5. Assuming you are able to accurately reselect the traits of the AG original mother in each generation of selfing, by S5 the female seeds you make should be almost indistinguishable from the AG original mother. If you're intention is to grow for smoke, the advantage here is that all the plants grown from seed will be females.

It is very difficult to stablize in seed form a NLD P1 Landrace like Acapluco Gold when using a multi-poly hybrid like Destroyer or even Maui Wowie as it will be very difficult to identify the traits of the mother and the traits of the father in the progeny. The original Destroyer used a 1960 Mexican / Colombian, same with Maui Wowie in the late 1960's or early 1970's Maui Wowie was probably an NLD Mexican such as Oaxacan. As such, visually selecting for NLD Mexican traits you might select the other Mexican genetics.

Again it would take five or six generations of selection to stabilize the traits of the AG original mother, but it would be almost impossible to isolate the traits of the AG Original mother in five or six generations. In the F3, and F4 generations the gene-pool will increase and you'll find geno/pheno-types that you didn't find in either of the F2 parents.

BTW, what is the source of your Acapulco Gold?

PS> I smoked a lot of 1970 - 1972 Acapulco Gold that came thru Miami.

 

[harvestreaper]

you could always just get some of the current ag offerings floating around,,,bsc,,bodhi and look for a male

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

How you proceed depends a great deal on how much the genotype and phenotype of the select AG plant vary from each other. There's really no way to know ahead of time, only a progeny test will give you an idea of how well said plant influences it's kids. If you don't get a percentage of plants from the F1 that have the traits desired, cubing is probably not going to work as a method. In the case of a plant that doesn't 'throw' it's desired traits, stepping away a generation by making F2's can work, but it's still a good idea to progeny test a handful of F1's and backtrack. Here's what has worked for me in these cases. Do a single backcross and inbreed brothers and sisters of that. This makes a kind of F2 by 'stepping away' a generation but with plants that are 75% genotype of the select plant. Good luck, it sounds like a worthy project!

 

[ahortator]

If I were in your shoes I would take a lot of cuttings. Also you can try selfing by inducing male flowers in a cutting with STS, or CS, or whatever method you know. That in order to preserve your clone alive until you get actual AG male pollen.

I am sure you will get some AG male pollen to make seeds properly. It takes only a bit of patience to get contacts.

Cubbing 5 or 6 times worth the effort. But it would be better if you can get males from the most alike strain you can get.

 

[Headbandf1]

How many blades on the leaf will help with which way the hybrid leans.........Ive seen many [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Acapulco[/FONT] Gold. In my experience if your mature leaf has less than 15 fingers the AG isnt dominate......15-21 finger and the Gold is there but 21 weeks flower for the stock i worked with, that was around valentines day the following year in the mid northern hemisphere

 

[centr1fuge]

Thanks everyone, here is what I do know about the provenance. A person lived in Acapulco. Bagseed from the dregs of their personal Acapulco Gold stash were planted more than 30 years later. Two germinated, and this seed is a descendant. Before that, I know nothing else about the material.

This was my description in the active landrace thread:


The plant has a VERY distinctive, almost matte gray-green leaf color unlike any I’ve seen in modern color-balanced photos of any strain. When the trichomes mature, and there are still some new green bud leaves peeking out, the buds project a distinct, coppery sheen.

This is the strongest, most “magic spell” experience bud I have ever smoked, and this was bred from >30 year old, still in the luggage it came back from Mexico in, bagseed. Going to sleep after that chillum? Enjoy your visuals. That’s not really an electric field tingling it’s way down your quads to your toes, so enjoy it. Gotta take a piss? Here’s 8 new riffs you can actually hear playing with your brain, and oh, this is how to visualize that complicated physical process you couldn’t figure out yesterday.




The fan leaves look exactly like the palmetto branch form at the bottom of this plant:


https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8659320&postcount=360


Two pressed leaves from a cola, and bud harvested at 14 weeks of 10/14 indoor lighting.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

centr1fuge, that is some of the tastiest looking flower I've seen in a long time!

 

[ahortator]

How many blades on the leaf will help with which way the hybrid leans.........Ive seen many [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Acapulco[/FONT] Gold. In my experience if your mature leaf has less than 15 fingers the AG isnt dominate......15-21 finger and the Gold is there but 21 weeks flower for the stock i worked with, that was around valentines day the following year in the mid northern hemisphere

Hello. It would be great if you can tell more about your AG line!

 

[Tlatoani77]

Would work better Verde Limón (michoacan) to back cross it?

 

[@hempy]

A clone of the mother Acapulco Gold treated with CS is what I would do. Easiest of the ways as far as I know.

I am not a fan of selfing but when you have one plant and one plant alone to work with i 100% agree with you yesum.

That way you have a back up as things can happen and clones can become lost.

I would also find a very stable unrelated sativa line take a look at places like real seed co / land race team make F1 seed and select a great male and start backcrossing to that clone.