A discussion: Keeping nordic outdoor strains as mothers.

[blackone]

The flip-side of the nordic outdoor strains is that they're notoriously hard to keep in veg because of their semi-af characteristics.
Let's discuss experiences here - and even better show pics.
Let's also avoid having lengthy theoretical discussions without any practical knowledge behind it - keep it real.

Here is my example - Freja mother that has been kept in veg since last year. She has tried flowering on me twice and both times all it took to reveg her was a little trim, a root-trim and a repot.
I'll clone her very soon and report back with the results.

I'm excited to see when she will finish outside - and also how finish times are affected by planting times - I will be putting out clones from May through July - possible even put a few out in early August.

Later this year I will update this thread with my experiences with other - perhaps even earlier - strains.

Lessons learned:

As long as these plants are not getting rootbound and getting enough hours of light they will stay in veg. Even indoor strains will start flowering if rootbound and mistreated but nordic outdoor strains really need to be watched.

A solution is to keep potting up - but of course that presents a practical problem when you start using 10 or 20 liter buckets... Trimming roots and branches a'la bonsai mothers works here, but long term I think making new clones from time to time is the way to go.

 

[yossman]

Good stuff blackone,indeed a needed discussion,i will be trying out several semi auto strains this season,and have been thinking about how to keep mothers,and also the best way to take clones(light hours)and how/when to match them to outdoor hours?

I hope this thread,can give us a better understanding and some advancement on this puzzling subject,nice one for starting this one up...peace yossman

 

[blackone]

Today - totally revegged, happy and ready for taking cuttings

 

[blackone]

I took 20 cuts on April 1 (no joke) and they're doing fine. Not rooted yet though - I normally root in 8-10 days and they're showing signs of callus so no panic yet.
I hope to test this with some early september finishers too, if I can find some seeds.

The plan is to grow these 20 clones into mothers themselves and get perhaps 4-5 clones from each - with a lot of love and a little luck I should be able to cut those clones before mid May, when these 20 clones are scheduled to go out in my best spot.

I'm anxious to see how much each will yield...

 

[eyyo]

Sounds awesome but what strain is it, freja, never heard of? Ever tried to veg and take cuttings from thyphoon?
I planted some thyphoon seeds 10 days ago
...See in your sign that you have a guerilla thread, really have to check it out.


piz

 

[blackone]

Freja is a Danish outdoor strain - I don't know much about the genetic roots but it's potent stuff - a perfect hash plant - but perhaps not super early in Denmark. Maybe it will be earlier from clones, who knows?

All 20 clones have rooted and have been transplanted to seedling soil.
As soon as they have grown a bit and I can make some more room in my cab they're going in 10cm pots.

So far so good - the mother is getting a little fuzzy again in the 6.5L pot and I'm thinking of cutting a new round of clones from her before I repot her to a 10L pot.

 

[blackone]

Am I the only one trying this out?

Am I the only one trying this out?

I hope others will try this too - if enough people will do this we will eventually find some outdoor elites for northern Europe.

Around june 20 I planted these out:

Here around 1.5 months later they've grown almost 1 meter and have become pretty bushy.

Still not flowering - indoor they don't have much stretch so they should respond quickly once their critical daylength is reached. I can't wait to see how well the outdoor buds compare to these that are grown indoor:

 

[lalandia]

Nice stuff Blackone..I've tried with Danish Passion and Danish Gold, but couldent keep them from flowering.

peace

 

[Om Bom]

Very interesting and cool thread and experiment!!!

Any update? Is the experiment continuing?

Also a question for the professor(s) if you don't mind: I've given some thought to breeding a mother plant (from a Danish strain) for cloning so i can plant out only females this summer, but what do you think? Is it a bad idea? Or, only a good idea for the sake of contributing to this experiment?

Regards
P

 

[blackone]

I didn't keep that Freja around - she was pretty late and it wasn't easy keeping her in veg. She's pretty damn good for bubblehash and the bud is fairly potent but taste is kinda boring.
I'll try to find better Freja phenos this year because in 2009 I had some great ones.

For this years outdoor I have a Cafeparadis and a Nugg-it mother. The Cafeparadis finished in early october but I think it might be earlier than that because I put her out in August last year. Pretty ok frosty bud and I'm also testing her inside right now.
Nugg-it (Phil's Erdpurt * E-rocket/Danish Passion F2) was the hardiest and earliest Nugg-it of the 2010 grow. Finishes around mid-october with small but compact and very frosty buds. The hash from her is very soft with a knock-out stone.

 

[Om Bom]

I was very pleased with some "Cafe Paradis outdoor skunk mix" seeds I think they were called, that I got from a friend last year. Excellent smoke!

Thanks for the update, and good luck for the coming season!! I will be following your experiment!

Regards
P

 

[blackone]

The Cafeparadis clone I took outside last year, now being flowered indoor. Of course I took clones first and they have rooted and will be made into mothers to provide me with a good amount of cuttings for this years outdoor

 

[chrille grows]

I have one question for you; How easy did she flower i mean how many dark hours did she need to flower ?

 

[blackone]

Well it's hard to say because she started flowering pretty soon after I put her out in august so if I had put her out earlier then she probably would have finished in September.
Indoors she's very easy to keep in veg but I use 24 hours light and I don't know how she would react to 18/6.

 

[Nunsacred]

I had a lovely example of lebanese#27 cross which I cloned in 2010 and gave to a mate .... I don't have indoor grow.

He struggled to keep it in veg but it worked well enough, and I got a cutting back for 2011 outdoor,
Edit : it was small and barely out of flower, but I put it straight in the ground and it just recovered and grew healthily immediately.
I remember wondering why it grew in veg outside so much better than indoors under 20/4 photoperiod, which is a longer than the day length I put it out into.

I took another clone in 2011 and this time I'm trying to re-veg it myself under fluoros. It rooted, but just won't put out the veg leaves, and is very slowly dying. I've tried re-potting with decent homemade compost, spraying with orm compost tea enriched water, with no joy.
It's such a shame, but that's how it is.
The only thing I've got left to try is slowly lengthening the day period and see if that helps.

 

[niceeven]

I am just getting into the so called Nordic strains myself and as a result I won't even try keeping some mums until I have a good handle on the plants I want to grow. It's good to know one can attempt to "bonsai" them to revert them to veg. The first thing that comes to mind about that would be the difference in light between what's needed to keep the mother from going into flowering and the light outdoors at planting time, hence causing the clones to go into flowering prematurely. Or, is it a problem at all? Looks like it works well with Freja. Where the clones "adapted" at 17-18 hours of sunlight prior being set outdoors? Just a few of the things I would like to have an idea about prior attempting to pull this off.

 

[blackone]

No I didn't adapt the plants to sunlight first but since I planted out in june it was ok.
Last year I gathered some more experience with Nuggit: This plant has females that are easy to keep in veg and won't flower even if rootbound. Males will flower in pots under 24/7 lighting.
I had a cutting from 2010 that I made into a mother in the winter and a few clones were put in the greenhouse around May. These started to get a little fuzzy first but quickly reverted to veg before I put them out in early june and they grew to be nice 1.5-2m tall plants. I never got around to harvesting them because they got totally seeded and I kinda lost the motivation.
That particular clone wasn't kept because the quality wasn't really there compared to some of her sisters that provided a much better product.
I've also started some Pot*Freja F2 mothered by a special fruity pheno. These are growing at a steady pace and hopefully I can make a bunch of good clones. I might also make some indoor seeds and label them with their mother# - then I can choose which ones to work with when I see how the clones perform outside.
My 2012 thread: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=230149

 

[niceeven]

Planting in June is an experiment I will try myself, with seeds this year. Some in the first week of June after barely two weeks of veg at 16 -8 (to match the amount of sunlight at that time) and another round, of the same varieties same provenance of seeds stock not germinated until June first ( about 16 hours of light outdoors) and keept at 22-2 until June 22nd and then placed outdoors (around 17 hours of light outdoors). I want to keep notes of how the two groups will behave.

I know it's of the topic of keeping nordic mothers and I apologize for that, but since you seem to have experience with nordic strains. Would you venture to try foreseeing how a strain like, say Typhoon would react in both cases? (well the first group should be predictable right?).

 

[blackone]

With only 2 week of veg I think both approaches could work. Starting Seeds in a coldframe or mini greenhouse isn't possible?

 

[niceeven]

Yes I will have some of those right on site in the bush but I was wondering if the second approach would actually cause plants actually trigger into flowering a bit sooner. I know they would produce considerably less than the plants started a month sooner but that way perhaps I could grow the later finishing nordic strains that are currently out of my range.

See what I mean? I can only start them outdoors starting at the earliest mid May. If I veg them longer than a couple of weeks they should be longer to trigger. So, perhaps the late start, 22 hours and taken out as the light begins to decrease option may allow me to get some later finishing strains done. Just playing with thoughts while I impatiently wait for spring....