6000W grow on a $15-22k budget. Pls help!

[ElonMusky]

Hello community!

For all you Yanks out there, my ideal budget is around $15k US at the time of this posting, but if needed I could scrounge another $7k from the war chest to bring me up to $22k (in US currency), but ideally I would prefer to start at around the $15k mark.

New to indoor but not to growing. Have 3 yrs exp with outdoor and light depo in Humboldt, but made the move to the Great White North, (Ontario, Canada), where outdoor is not an option unless you're a masochist. Would love to hear your esteemed opinions on my desired layout, equipment, and set up - tear me a new one if need be!

I'm also not really glued to any of the methods I lay out for you guys - so if you think ebb and flow or RDWC or whatever is the way to go, tell me what you suggest, and why.

Most important to me is that my site will be compatible to heirloom sativas of the stretchy and temperamental variety after I bring my indoor skills up. I think I remember reading that leggy Sativas would probably benefits from the taproot that seeds offer and big pots to let those roots grow. I will of course be starting with indica dominant strains because they are more forgiving to an indoor beginner.

Desired specs:

- flower room spread over an 8x8 area with 12" ceilings. Space is significantly larger, so I will be partitioning it to make my veg/propagation/cloning room, and maybe another small room for trim work. Would like to expand flower room later on after I start to recuperate costs
- 4 x 1000w Gavita DE in flower room, with ballast that allows me to switch over to MH in final weeks to boost UV
- 2k MH in veg room.
- completely closed space so I can run CO2 efficiently, & deal with potential pests if and when they arrive


Major Questions:

1. While I will be growing Indica dom hybrids for my first couple of grows, I would eventually like to move over to Sativas once I get things dialed in - I get a chub just thinking about playing around with some landrace or heirloom sativas. What is the best system and medium for those leggy Sativas of old? Should I even bother, or just stick to genetics that are known to work indoors?

2. I would like to grow organic if possible, as I am a real stickler for taste and smell. How hard is it to dial in to an organic coco drip system? Do Sativas really need soil, or can I produce A+ quality hydroponically? Any organic nute suggestions?

3. It was suggested to me that if I want to run 2k to veg room, getting 3 fixtures might be better than two 1000w MHs.Any suggestion for veg room design and specs before I start to carve out new rooms? Should I get a small tent for my mothers to keep them on 24/hr light while the rest of the veg room is on 18 hrs?


Equipment:

Fixtures and coverage:
- x4 1000w Gavita DE running HPS during flower to cover 4x4 footprint. Finish with MH bulbs so interchangeable ballast a must
- x2 cool tube reflectors for veg room (4x8) plus a smaller bulb w/parabolic reflector for the Mommas

Bulbs:
- x2 1000w Eye Hortilux Super Blue MH for veg
- x6 Philips GreenPower 1000W DE HPS
- x6 1000W DE MH - any suggestions for brands?

Controller:
- iPonic 624 All-in-One system for two rooms. I like the idea of programming overrides into it's schedule in case C02, temp, or humidity levels. Anyone with experience with these units want to chime in? Is it worth the price?

CO2 System:
- Tanks

A/C Unit:
- Ideal-Air Mini Split - 36,000 BTU. Is this more than I need? Probably, but I do want to expand later since I have the space and am thinking I will need the extra cooling power then

Dehumidifiers:
- You betcha. One for each room. Any recommendations on brands are welcome.Electrical:
- Any suggestions are welcome. Good friend is an electrician out of province and I will bring him here to install everything when the time is right.

Thanks, that about sums it up for now. I really appreciate the help. One final question out the door that has nothing to do with my grow - as I don't see myself starting out with RDWC- does anyone ever use ozone machines to oxygenate and sterilize the water in a RDWC/DWC setup? Would this even be beneficial?

 

[Ganjaganjakush]

For the mini, see if you can get a mr cool diy heat pump, 3 ton ran me 1900 and it cools my 6k de room with no effort also the compressor only uses as much electric as its needs so isnt blasting 3 tons saves alot of electric,easy to hook up and it's compressor/handler are covered for 7/5 with self install. Just wrenches,hole saw and some common sense to hook up.

Dehueys quest would be best bang for the buck as it has the best electric/water removal ratio

I run 3 1k de per 20amp double pole, ac 30 amp double pole, veg 20amp double, then maybe 20-40 in 120v sockets

I run coco on a drip, 6 inch square pots watered evwry hour for 20-30 secomdsduring flower once they get really root bound and they really explode. Just black 1/2 tubing with a eco 700gph pump and open lines. Or I'll run 3 gallon coco trees 1 per light same water schedule

 

[ElonMusky]

That's awesome man, thanks for the tip. Anything that lowers my electrical bill - rate here is .17 per KWh. Happy to hear I'll be able to install on my own too, would rather not bring in HVAC guy if i don't need to.

i am leaning towards coco, glad it's working for you. if i were so inclined, do you think i could grow a ridiculously leggy and long flowering heirloom or landrace sativa in coco? if i waited long enough, given enough light and room for the roots and plant to grow, could i grow a true tree in coco?

 

[Mikell]

Lets deal with your primary problem first.

You moved to Canada and settled in Ontario?

People move from Ontario, not to it. You're all upside down my friend.


I would highly unrecommend a DIY mini split. There are tens of thousands of legal grows, even if you aren't, they know the game.

You can grow trees in coir just fine, anywhere from 3-10 gallon. Sativa too.

It is also easy as balls to mix up an organic soil mix at half strength.

 

[mack 10]

lol.

 

[ElonMusky]

Lets deal with your primary problem first.

You moved to Canada and settled in Ontario?

People move from Ontario, not to it. You're all upside down my friend.

Ahaha, so I've heard my friend! The transition is... tough... the things we do for love, eh? The Canadians are great but the weather is oppressive and the poor trees here are stunted.

Glad to hear coco can support a big ol sativa. Interesting to hear about a coco/soil mix. Going to google that right now.

Also thx for thoughts on the DIY split

 

[Phaeton]

My first designed from scratch garden system ran $17,000 for 7,000 watts. It turned out two pounds a month for years until technology changed.

The current garden uses 6,000 watts and cost $15,000 for the same amount of light and yields.
The quality of light is better and cost is less, sometimes capitalism does exactly what it should.

Years go by quickly and few things end as they began, the garden tends to lead where it wants to go.

 

[dragonbender]

Ahaha, so I've heard my friend! The transition is... tough... the things we do for love, eh? The Canadians are great but the weather is oppressive and the poor trees here are stunted.

Glad to hear coco can support a big ol sativa. Interesting to hear about a coco/soil mix. Going to google that right now.

Also thx for thoughts on the DIY split

Welcome to the great white north my friend. Ontario isn't that bad, yes the weather isn't the best. Especially if your coming from Cali/Texas/dee[ south.

Im in Ontario myself and putting up my room as well. Not as big but same idea. Stick with a Quest Deuy (second nature hydroponics, Mississauga) carries them for a good price. I would stick to gavitas with the EL-2 Controller. As for strains, try the choc mint OG from Humboldt or the Headbanger from CaliConnect, herd of people getting excellent phenoms from these seeds. I just got my seeds a few days ago.

AC? make sure its a inverted technology Mini Split and make sure it can operate in cold weather because we get down to minus -15 C here, sometimes lower.

Get to knopw the VPD chart, as it will help guide you to proper temps and humidity levels in the room.

Other than than I wish you luck and welcome you to Canada.

 

[dragonbender]

Hello community!

For all you Yanks out there, my ideal budget is around $15k US at the time of this posting, but if needed I could scrounge another $7k from the war chest to bring me up to $22k (in US currency), but ideally I would prefer to start at around the $15k mark.

New to indoor but not to growing. Have 3 yrs exp with outdoor and light depo in Humboldt, but made the move to the Great White North, (Ontario, Canada), where outdoor is not an option unless you're a masochist. Would love to hear your esteemed opinions on my desired layout, equipment, and set up - tear me a new one if need be!

I'm also not really glued to any of the methods I lay out for you guys - so if you think ebb and flow or RDWC or whatever is the way to go, tell me what you suggest, and why.

Most important to me is that my site will be compatible to heirloom sativas of the stretchy and temperamental variety after I bring my indoor skills up. I think I remember reading that leggy Sativas would probably benefits from the taproot that seeds offer and big pots to let those roots grow. I will of course be starting with indica dominant strains because they are more forgiving to an indoor beginner.

Desired specs:

- flower room spread over an 8x8 area with 12" ceilings. Space is significantly larger, so I will be partitioning it to make my veg/propagation/cloning room, and maybe another small room for trim work. Would like to expand flower room later on after I start to recuperate costs
- 4 x 1000w Gavita DE in flower room, with ballast that allows me to switch over to MH in final weeks to boost UV
- 2k MH in veg room.
- completely closed space so I can run CO2 efficiently, & deal with potential pests if and when they arrive


Major Questions:

1. While I will be growing Indica dom hybrids for my first couple of grows, I would eventually like to move over to Sativas once I get things dialed in - I get a chub just thinking about playing around with some landrace or heirloom sativas. What is the best system and medium for those leggy Sativas of old? Should I even bother, or just stick to genetics that are known to work indoors?

2. I would like to grow organic if possible, as I am a real stickler for taste and smell. How hard is it to dial in to an organic coco drip system? Do Sativas really need soil, or can I produce A+ quality hydroponically? Any organic nute suggestions?

3. It was suggested to me that if I want to run 2k to veg room, getting 3 fixtures might be better than two 1000w MHs.Any suggestion for veg room design and specs before I start to carve out new rooms? Should I get a small tent for my mothers to keep them on 24/hr light while the rest of the veg room is on 18 hrs?


Equipment:

Fixtures and coverage:
- x4 1000w Gavita DE running HPS during flower to cover 4x4 footprint. Finish with MH bulbs so interchangeable ballast a must
- x2 cool tube reflectors for veg room (4x8) plus a smaller bulb w/parabolic reflector for the Mommas

Bulbs:
- x2 1000w Eye Hortilux Super Blue MH for veg
- x6 Philips GreenPower 1000W DE HPS
- x6 1000W DE MH - any suggestions for brands?

Controller:
- iPonic 624 All-in-One system for two rooms. I like the idea of programming overrides into it's schedule in case C02, temp, or humidity levels. Anyone with experience with these units want to chime in? Is it worth the price?

CO2 System:
- Tanks

A/C Unit:
- Ideal-Air Mini Split - 36,000 BTU. Is this more than I need? Probably, but I do want to expand later since I have the space and am thinking I will need the extra cooling power then

Dehumidifiers:
- You betcha. One for each room. Any recommendations on brands are welcome.Electrical:
- Any suggestions are welcome. Good friend is an electrician out of province and I will bring him here to install everything when the time is right.

Thanks, that about sums it up for now. I really appreciate the help. One final question out the door that has nothing to do with my grow - as I don't see myself starting out with RDWC- does anyone ever use ozone machines to oxygenate and sterilize the water in a RDWC/DWC setup? Would this even be beneficial?

and if you decide to hydro or coco please please make sure you use R/O water. It will make a life difference and make your ppms and ph fluctuations a hell of a lot easier.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

What is the best system and medium for those leggy Sativas of old?

Medium should be more or less irrelevant providing your nuggets are properly supported with a layer or two of trellis netting.

Should I even bother, or just stick to genetics that are known to work indoors?

Sativas are preferable if you are trying to grow big trees or keep a low plant count, imo. However, if you struggle with low humidity, maybe an indica is better suited for your environment. Equatorial sativas can take higher heat, but they also demand higher humidity, especially big trees. FWIW plenty of cash-croppers run 9 week sativas indoors.

Do Sativas really need soil, or can I produce A+ quality hydroponically?

You might just want to run a side by side and figure it out for yourself. Soil is easy af, and bullet-proof, but yes, there are people out there, growing hydroponically, that are producing higher quality smoke than most organic growers. Environment>Everything else. A++++ can be attained either way. Comes down to the grower and the environment. That being said, most people are better off in soil, imo.

does anyone ever use ozone machines to oxygenate and sterilize the water in a RDWC/DWC setup? Would this even be beneficial?

After stubbornly wasting ~18 months of my life, I will never attempt rdwc again. Ozone machines should always be exhausting outdoors, as they are detrimental to both plant and human life. Dutch Master Gold Zone is miracle product. Keeps everything bone white and film-free. Probably just diluted pond cleaner, but holy sh*t batman, this stuff f'n works!

Any suggestion for veg room design and specs...

I always try and refer people to djm's "coco trees" thread in the coco section, whenever possible. Very good read.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=300255

 

[ElonMusky]

My first designed from scratch garden system ran $17,000 for 7,000 watts. It turned out two pounds a month for years until technology changed.

The current garden uses 6,000 watts and cost $15,000 for the same amount of light and yields.
The quality of light is better and cost is less, sometimes capitalism does exactly what it should.

Years go by quickly and few things end as they began, the garden tends to lead where it wants to go.

Glad to hear I'm in that range! Thx for the two cents dude

 

[ElonMusky]

Welcome to the great white north my friend. Ontario isn't that bad, yes the weather isn't the best. Especially if your coming from Cali/Texas/dee[ south.

Im in Ontario myself and putting up my room as well. Not as big but same idea. Stick with a Quest Deuy (second nature hydroponics, Mississauga) carries them for a good price. I would stick to gavitas with the EL-2 Controller. As for strains, try the choc mint OG from Humboldt or the Headbanger from CaliConnect, herd of people getting excellent phenoms from these seeds. I just got my seeds a few days ago.

AC? make sure its a inverted technology Mini Split and make sure it can operate in cold weather because we get down to minus -15 C here, sometimes lower.

Get to knopw the VPD chart, as it will help guide you to proper temps and humidity levels in the room.

Other than than I wish you luck and welcome you to Canada.

Hey dude, thanks. Good to be here man. Good advice about making sure the a/c works to -15, i hadn't thought of that. will def look into those strains and i forgot to mention but will def be getting an RO machine as city water here is salty as fuck.

Will check out that place in Sauga for sure.

 

[ElonMusky]

Medium should be more or less irrelevant providing your nuggets are properly supported with a layer or two of trellis netting.



Sativas are preferable if you are trying to grow big trees or keep a low plant count, imo. However, if you struggle with low humidity, maybe an indica is better suited for your environment. Equatorial sativas can take higher heat, but they also demand higher humidity, especially big trees. FWIW plenty of cash-croppers run 9 week sativas indoors.



You might just want to run a side by side and figure it out for yourself. Soil is easy af, and bullet-proof, but yes, there are people out there, growing hydroponically, that are producing higher quality smoke than most organic growers. Environment>Everything else. A++++ can be attained either way. Comes down to the grower and the environment. That being said, most people are better off in soil, imo.



After stubbornly wasting ~18 months of my life, I will never attempt rdwc again. Ozone machines should always be exhausting outdoors, as they are detrimental to both plant and human life. Dutch Master Gold Zone is miracle product. Keeps everything bone white and film-free. Probably just diluted pond cleaner, but holy sh*t batman, this stuff f'n works!



I always try and refer people to djm's "coco trees" thread in the coco section, whenever possible. Very good read.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=300255

Damn Bobby, that's a great thread by DJM - thx for the recommendation! it has everything i get amped about in one thread - sativas, coco, tree style grow, high humidity for optimal CO2 intake... sheeeeeit, i'm impressed. super cool reading about the vpn goldilocks zone too

I will stay away from DWC to be sure, and good call, a side by side soil vs coco comparison is in order.

it gets pretty sticky here in the summer... high rh... I wish i could do what djm does and just vent cool air in at night during the light cycle but it just gets too unpredictably humid here. maybe i can do some kind of hybrid system where i pull cold air in the winter and a/c during the summer...

fucking temperature swings here are so big i might as well be growing in Siberia

Any other great threads you might suggest are always welcome. Stay tuned with the progress, buying equipment in a couple weeks

 

[Stay Gel^N 247]

You have enough money to make an incredible room. I had a 10*10 with four 1000 single ended and everything was about 1500 used.
The gavitas will work great for you using even the bulbs that come with it for the first run. If I were you, I would start with a good floor liner, good reflective wall surface. Four gavitas will cover 10*10 with room to spare, hang them higher than a normal lamp.

For veg and propagation:
Get 8 lamp T5 for your seeds and clones. If room is cool, get seedling heat mats with thermostats.
Uppot to one 1000w gavita covering 8*8 so you have room to move around. Hang it very high.

Use pure Coco because it rocks and it's easy to flush if something goes wrong. Also long flowering sativa plants will be easy to manage their root zone and feeding will be more reliable.
Pull cool air from outside using a particle filter to avoid having to run lots of electrical lines. A couple small fans to keep the air moving. Can fan with charcoal for exhaust using fan speed controller and thermostat.
A simple nute line such as cannacoco just a and b with rhizotonic for transplanting and cannazyme and very low amounts of pk 13/14. Bluelab pH truncheon. A medium sized ro filter.

That's the simple setup to get lots of buds.

 

[Bobby Boucher]

I will stay away from DWC to be sure, and good call, a side by side soil vs coco comparison is in order.

I grow DWC. My beef is with RDWC.

For the sake of clarity, and since the real credit goes to the grower and not to the medium, I refrained from noting that the best pot I've ever seen consistently comes from singe-cell DWC buckets ~15 years and running. Experience is the best teacher though, and it can't hurt to run side by sides early on to experience the pros and cons of each system first hand. What works for some in their environment, might not work for you in yours. IMO, although dwc does have one of the smallest safety nets, it is cheaper, easier, and cleaner in all other respects than any other system as far as home growers are concerned, and if done correctly, truly offers astounding yield and quality.

Coco is extremely tempting, though. I would love to turn off my commercial air pumps after all these years of running them 24/7/365. If power outages were an issue for me, I'd hop on the coco train in a heart beat.