45N Auto Breeding Project: Erdpurt or PCK?

[Skatter Brayne]

I have been following Aces work for a few years now, and now that I have moved to a cold and wet location at 45N the time has come to get my hands on some of Aces precious genetics!

The plan is to cross Autoflowering strains with Aces gear to improve the vulnerable Autoflowers resilience to cold and mold, while also improving their quality and consistency thanks to the tremendous work Ace has done to stabilize their lines.

Bangi Haze is the obvious choice to add quality and hardiness to my Sativa dominant autoflower strains. However, I am having a hard time deciding which of Aces strains would be best to cross with my Indica Autoflower. I would like to preserve it's sweet terpene profile, while adding mold / cold resistance as well as improving the strength of it's branches.

I cannot decide between Erdpurt, PCK, or Erdpurt x PCK.

I have never worked with a strong IBL before. Due to the degree to which these strains have been inbred, would Erdpurt x PCK have more vigor than either PCK or Erdpurt on their own? Since the plan is to develop fully a Autoflowering strain, vigor will be quite important. Autoflowers really need a strong start!

I have read good things about PCK and Erdpurts hardiness, but which of these is the most rugged in terms of Mold Resistance, and Strong branches? The fall weather here can be brutal, and most Autoflowers have terrible resistance so this is very important for me.

How well do the colors of these strains carry over to crosses? I would love some nice coloring to compliment the sweet terpenes of my Auto Strain. I would also like to have my cake and eat it too. I would be elated if these Ace crosses could add both colors and resistance.

Also, I know that Erdpurt is semi Autoflowering. How helpful would this trait be when breeding for fully Autoflowering? When crossing a semi Autoflower to a full Autoflower, how many generations would it take before 100% of the offspring are Autos?

Sorry for all of the questions, but I would love to hear some feedback from anyone who has grown, or need with any of these strains! I have been researching all week and I am no closer to making a decision lol

 

[nepalnt21]

well if u can't decide, u should prolly get a few breeder's PCK packs and like ten erdpurt ten seed reggie packeroonies and go to town.

 

[Skatter Brayne]

I would definitely take that approach if I wasn't a recovering seed addict with more seeds than I know what to do with haha. I'm also far more interested in Sativa smokes. I've purchased quite a few sativa strains and will have my hands full with those projects.

Hoping to narrow down the indicas to one simple line I could can work on just for nighttimes, or the occasional change of pace. most of my friends and family are weary of sampling the Sativas I enjoy, so I should probably keep some indica strains on hand to prevent future panic attacks. I just want a single unique and hardy Autoflowering indica that won't mold up on me.

For now I'm leaning towards the Erdpurt x PCK but I would love to have some more info before I pull the trigger. Especially with regards to their hardiness, and the traits they carry on to crosses.

 

[burningfire]

PCK is fine for outdoors at 45N, I have my own little cross with a green PCK in it with a slightly slower Nepalese. Both plants had great cold resistance. They'll start flowering in mid august and be ready in early to mid october the one I've been working with is about a week faster and flowering starts in early august. I don't know how ErdPurt smokes but I know that you can find lively and happy PCK without too much indica head heaviness. I'm not sure if the Erdpurt adds a little more weight to the effect.

 

[nepalnt21]

yeah i hear you on that; i just wish i had four giant greenhouses to do my own breeding projects with the amazing sativas still available before everything turns to og kush variants.

i have zero experience with either pck or erdpurt, but it is my understanding that erdpurt was bred specifically for outdoor northern growing as the primary goal.

with that said, it would seem that pck could only add to it, and they both have unique and interesting terpene profiles. plus the cbd potential of erdpurt is a plus for indicas imo.

if i had to choose for a similar project, i'd go with the hybrid of the two, and make seeds for as much expression variations as possible.

my two cents, hopefully i'm just getting the discussion started, not tryna clutter ur thread with my noobiness

(edit)

my golly that erdpurt x pck sounds frickin amazing now that i'm looking at the description... i need to keep telling myself that i don't need to spend money right now arrrgh!

 

[dubi]

Welcome Skatter Brayne

Thanks for your interest in our work, much appreciated.

If you want to add beautiful colors and great mold and cold resistance to your indica autoflowering lines then PCK is the right indica choice.
ErdPurt being an Afghani is more sensible against botrytis, PCK on the other hand has great mold resistance for a hashplant indica as we have mentioned several times in the PCK thread and hybrids.

An autoflowering x PCK cross will probably start to flower in July at your latitude, finishing in early September, probably earlier if planted early enough in spring. It's very easy to add colors if you use a PCK colorful parent plant in your cross. An autoflower x ErdPurt cross will have a faster outdoor flowering onset than the PCK cross due to ErdPurt strong semi autoflowering tendencies, producing a hybrid with almost fully autoflowering outdoors performance, so if you have a dry summer the ErdPurt cross could work very well there. In the first posts of Auto Malawi thread and in this post in Auto Zamaldelica thread:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=8861445&postcount=103

i comment in detail how to produce a fully autoflowering strain and other interesting considerations when breeding with autos.

ErdPurt x PCK is indeed more vigorous than pure PCK or pure ErdPurt, but will be less consistent for breeding regarding traits due to being an outcross (F1).

To add vigor and branching is better to cross the autos with vigorous and branchy sativas and sativa dom hybrids with those traits, Bangi Haze and Nepal Jam are good choices for that.
Hope it helps. Let me know if you have any other doubt.

 

[Skatter Brayne]

Thanks for assisting Dubi!

I have decided to go with the PCK, as that should finish plenty early here when crossed with an Autoflower. It sounds like I will have some more breeding options with it as well, since it will be easier to keep mother's. I was also very excited to read last night in another that the PCK lends itself well to Sativa Crosses thanks to it's more clear headed effects.

I cannot wait to play with these genes! I hope soon as the Cannabis culture evolves, people will abandon these washed out dutch genetics open their eyes to the work real breeders like Ace have been doing for years. True stewards of the plant. Keep up the great work Dubi, much respect!

 

[teide]

How is the auto project going? Got your seeds yet?
Myself I went for Erdpurt because of the terps and the cbd for my outdoors auto indica project. Worked out ok for my climate last season at 60N. Crossed it with a male dr. Feelgood. Finished end of august without mold. Might have been lucky. One pure erdpurt also finished without being crossed, it was pulled a bit early for practical reasons. I would like to purchase the PCK to try using it in a sativa cross, but really the recommendation now should be: if you want to buy ACE seeds for a fast finishing sativa grow outdoors, just go for their Auto Zamaldelica!
For now I work with the seeds I already have, and I like the colors of erdpurt and the hard burds. I pollinated some Fastbuds Tangiematic for this season, and some F1s are flowering outdoors now.

The father passed on the colors, I would say.. Don't know how it will turn out, Wonder if the tangiematic brings something to the table.
All trichs are clear still.

 

[Skatter Brayne]

Nice to hear your Erdpurt cross finished so soon at 60N. I like your idea of using it for CBD breeding.

Due to covid and international shipping I wasn't able to get Ace seeds this season. I spent this year just increasing my stock of pure Autoflower seeds so I have plenty for future breeding selections.

Good idea about Aces Auto Zam. I was planning to use some of mephistos northern cheese haze auto for the Sativas but the cheese genetics really waters down the sativa effect. Definitely speeds up flowering and increases hardiness

 

[browntrout]

I live at 45N and have grown PCK and hybrids here outdoors. PCK is very resistant to mold and colder temps as others have said. It’s a great start, but not a strain to get any dependable yield or fully finished product. I’d try the auto Malawi NL if you like lighter sativa smoke, although a bit less resistant to mold. Worked very well for me starting late May.

PCK hybrids on the other hand work very nice! My old Dutch Passion Durban Poison hybrids with PCK was short fat and early, some earlier than both parents.

Any Paki line I’ve tried seem to be extremely cold resistant and can get another week or two more out of them where others start to die off From cold. But pure PCK didn’t quite finish for me.

 

[Skatter Brayne]

Interesting that the PCK crosses hold up better than PCK. That's fine by me though, since the point is to use it for breeding stock. Appreciate the feedback from everyone

 

[dubi]

Hi teide,

Thanks for your feedback Glad pure Erdpurt and your own ErdPurt hybrid finished well so up north.

How is the auto project going? Got your seeds yet?
Myself I went for Erdpurt because of the terps and the cbd for my outdoors auto indica project. Worked out ok for my climate last season at 60N. Crossed it with a male dr. Feelgood. Finished end of august without mold. Might have been lucky. One pure erdpurt also finished without being crossed, it was pulled a bit early for practical reasons. I would like to purchase the PCK to try using it in a sativa cross, but really the recommendation now should be: if you want to buy ACE seeds for a fast finishing sativa grow outdoors, just go for their Auto Zamaldelica!
For now I work with the seeds I already have, and I like the colors of erdpurt and the hard burds. I pollinated some Fastbuds Tangiematic for this season, and some F1s are flowering outdoors now.
View Image
The father passed on the colors, I would say.. Don't know how it will turn out, Wonder if the tangiematic brings something to the table.
All trichs are clear still.

 

[dubi]

You are right browntrout,

I consider PCK an outstanding breeding tool for many reasons (colors, resins, terpenes, resistances, etc ...), especially when outcrossed with sativas, but in pure form is not the best choice regarding yield and potency, although many love the medical qualities of pure PCK. When crossing a good sativa with PCK, the resultant F1 usually has good to very good yields (depending on the sativa strain), for example our Malawi x PCK.

For outdoor breeding in very north latitude i would choose to cross with PCK an early sativa or sativa dom with auto or semi autoflowering tendencies, for example Auto Zamaldelica.

I live at 45N and have grown PCK and hybrids here outdoors. PCK is very resistant to mold and colder temps as others have said. It’s a great start, but not a strain to get any dependable yield or fully finished product. I’d try the auto Malawi NL if you like lighter sativa smoke, although a bit less resistant to mold. Worked very well for me starting late May.

PCK hybrids on the other hand work very nice! My old Dutch Passion Durban Poison hybrids with PCK was short fat and early, some earlier than both parents.

Any Paki line I’ve tried seem to be extremely cold resistant and can get another week or two more out of them where others start to die off From cold. But pure PCK didn’t quite finish for me.