40 year old seeds. Any pointers?

[smurfin'herb]

After all of these years reading posts about people getting old school seeds, its finally my turn.
An older gentlemen in his 60's passed me some seeds that he had saved from long ago. He used to run weight across the country in the 70's, and only kept seeds from the best stuff he said. The two kinds he mentioned these were picked out of were Redbud, and Colombian gold. He told me they take forever to finish. I guess he tried to grow them outdoors one year long ago, and found out. This guy is just an old stoner, he tosses clones out in the summer, but he doesnt have much of an idea of how to grow. Just lets nature do its thing. He wants me to find his redbud type weed from back in the day. I told him i cant guarantee anything, but i will try. I cant mimmick the exact environment they are from, or soil fertility, ph ect. I also cant use the same dry/cure process they used. This stuff played a big role in the final product of some types of old school weed.

I was told they were kept in a cedar chest all this time(not sure of packaging).
About half are slightly premature, and the other half of them are dark brown with tiger stripes. All of them are on the smaller side compared to what im used to seeing. Some are normal size though. Ill try to get a pic up.

I know some tactics for starting tough seeds, but i really want to get as good of results as i can. I have about 150 seeds rougly. If i get 20 to go, ill be happy.

Any help is appreciated.

 

[GreenPasta]

A sure fire way ......ga3 also know as gibberellic acid they sale this stough online you only add a certain ppm of it per specific amount of water but this is a very effective way to pop old seeds

Peace

GP

 

[dank.frank]

This is ClackmasCoots seed soak recipe for old seeds:

12 oz. pure coconut water
1 oz. BioAg Ful-Power (pure Fulvic acid)
1 oz. Aloe vera juice

Fill to 1 gallon with the cleanest, purest water you can get your hands on. Soak your seeds for 24 - 36 hours and then strain.



dank.Frank

 

[OldSSSCGuy]

Gibberellic acid is not some sort of miracle chemical to germinate old seed. It works about as well as most techniques to germinate really old seed, but not much more.

Everyone has their own voodoo to try on old seed. I have tried most. Safest is first putting them in the freezer for a week or two to give them a starting point. Then soak them in warm distilled water for 2-5 days to help soften the shell. Then put them in fresh soil and keep them very moist and warm (like 80F degrees) and cross your fingers. Try it to groups of about 10 seeds at a time and see if ANY germinate at all. If that does not work at all then you can try all manner of voodoo if it makes you feel better (smile).

About 25% will depend on how the seed was stored all those years, and about 75% on luck. The most common thing is to get maybe 10%-20% of them appear to germ (the shell just breaks and you can see the white tip) and then die.

The #1 issue is keeping the seed moist enough to slowly soften the shell enough for the plant to break out from a very dry, old shell. Many voodoo techniques are centered on that fact, and providing a germ-free bed for them to grow from. Some (me included) will gently file the edges of the seed with a fine-grit fingernail file to help break that seam open. Some seed will pickup virus and mold infections during storage. You get the shell wet and it swells & splits open - to reveal a black growing tip.

Good luck!

PS: The "tiger stripes" you are seeing is just oil. Wipe the seed off and you will see what I mean. No whoop.

PPS: don't freak over special conditions or trying to mimic some unique environment from long ago, much less curing technique. A plant is a plant is a plant. Imagine what the breeder's from the 1960's and 1970's could have done with the nutrients we have available today, eh? And talk about voodoo - I met some really wacky techniques among growers back then, none of which apply to modern-age nutrients and environmental control.

 

[waveguide]

40 years is rough. try the gibberellic acid if you've got a few $, there's some other good threads on the topic.. eg. adding a little nitrogen or fertiliser because the seed's storage has depleted. you may even want to watch the moon cycle for increasing germs.

i like to germ on perlite for control.. keeps the water level below the seed and can be completely sterilised (peroxide). good luck.

 

[Dropped Cat]

I germinated 30+ year old seeds. Several found in the fold of a
double LP kept in a climate controlled storage unit.

Soaked for a day in tap water, planted in promix. I had no idea
of the importance of the find, and the ease of germination.

I culled the male and runt female, kept a female, been flowering
her ever since.

Surely, if I had to, I couldn't do it again.

 

[Heusinomics]

I agree w ^ about the moon cycles!
I know it seems silly but Iv seen a second flush of stubborn seeds "pop" up after the full moon passes by.
The man himself Mr. Tom Hill also notes this as happening to him in the germination thread/sticky.

I now time ALL my been popping to have the full moon pass when the sprouts should b cracking! It jst feels right...

I also like the soak w coconut h2o & fulvic! Sound like it has serious potential for adding a small boost to a tired babe.

Serious respect, big ups and best of luck getting those going!

 

[Heusinomics]

I also highly recamend you "skuff" them up abut too as suggested!
Iv had this help signifagently w typicly fresh seeds and it's another step I ALWAYS take when soaking my ever so valuable magic beans.

Happy sprouting ;D

 

[Mikell]

Tissue culture? Might even be able to farm out the work these days.

That, to be honest, is why I would never contribute anything to the cannabis genome project being pushed through here.

 

[DrFever]

How ever you shake it germinating old seeds is tough reason is the outter shell gets to hard for water to penetrate it your best thing is to soak them with a light carbonate water the c02 will help in penetrating the shell i would look into a booster like plagron
before even attempting to germinate
https://www.growshoponline.nu/en/vmchk/nutrients-additives/plagron/plagron-seed-booster-10-ml/

Bottom line its going to take longer so be patient once you start the germination process just let it do its thing and let mother nature do its thing

 

[Jhhnn]

Gibberellic acid is not some sort of miracle chemical to germinate old seed. It works about as well as most techniques to germinate really old seed, but not much more.

Everyone has their own voodoo to try on old seed. I have tried most. Safest is first putting them in the freezer for a week or two to give them a starting point. Then soak them in warm distilled water for 2-5 days to help soften the shell. Then put them in fresh soil and keep them very moist and warm (like 80F degrees) and cross your fingers. Try it to groups of about 10 seeds at a time and see if ANY germinate at all. If that does not work at all then you can try all manner of voodoo if it makes you feel better (smile).

About 25% will depend on how the seed was stored all those years, and about 75% on luck. The most common thing is to get maybe 10%-20% of them appear to germ (the shell just breaks and you can see the white tip) and then die.

The #1 issue is keeping the seed moist enough to slowly soften the shell enough for the plant to break out from a very dry, old shell. Many voodoo techniques are centered on that fact, and providing a germ-free bed for them to grow from. Some (me included) will gently file the edges of the seed with a fine-grit fingernail file to help break that seam open. Some seed will pickup virus and mold infections during storage. You get the shell wet and it swells & splits open - to reveal a black growing tip.

Good luck!

PS: The "tiger stripes" you are seeing is just oil. Wipe the seed off and you will see what I mean. No whoop.

PPS: don't freak over special conditions or trying to mimic some unique environment from long ago, much less curing technique. A plant is a plant is a plant. Imagine what the breeder's from the 1960's and 1970's could have done with the nutrients we have available today, eh? And talk about voodoo - I met some really wacky techniques among growers back then, none of which apply to modern-age nutrients and environmental control.

Makes sense to me, although I've never tried to germ seeds that old.

For somebody accustomed to cloning, who has the wherewithall to do it, the small batch method makes sense. When you get a hit, a start, a seedling, you treat it like a mother plant until/if you get more, hopefully enough to do what you want. If initial methods don't work, you move up the voodoo ladder.

I'd examine the batch under a magnifier to discard obvious dings, grade the keepers. If I got any starts, I'd be careful not to overfeed 'em, mindful that NLD tropical varieties are often adapted to relatively poor soils.

It'd be nice to have some sort of holder for sanding the seed seam, but I haven't figured that out. I grow from seed, so far, & I hate duds, so I like to do that w/ all of 'em.

 

[olekingkole]

You can make a scuff box by lining a matchbox with fine sand paper. Then just shake them.
I would do this in batches and start out with the simplest method first. And whatever method you choose, do a dry run with some seeds you can waste.

I would soak some seeds in water diluted with hydrogen peroxide at the rate of 1 1/4 teaspoon per pint. This will help kill pests. Soak until the seeds sink. Then place in a folded paper towel and wet the towel with the same H2O2 solution. Place the wetted envelope containing the seeds inside a bag, breath into the baggie to add CO2, then seal it.
Put the baggie somewhere with a constant temperature about 72 degrees. I use a thermostatically controlled heating pad. Check the seeds every day to see if they are cracking. Wash your fingers first. I like to let the tap root grow out about an inch before I remove them for planting, it's even ok if the seed has fallen off and the baby leaf is exposed. Remove any seeds that have reached this stage and put the rest back in the bag and give them more time to germinate. Sometimes it takes 10 days. Bury the tap root in a Jiffy pot or whatever you choose. I prefer Jiffy pots because they hold a lot of water. Rapid Rooters and Rockwool dry out too fast. Put the Jiffy pots on a plastic tray covered with a low plastic dome. At this point you want them at 30 C and 85% humidity. Use a thermometer. Keep the Jiffy pots bunched together inside the covered tray. That way they can help each other moist. I recommend t5's with blue HO bulbs as close to the trays as heat considerations allow. It will take a couple weeks before you know how well you've done. If you are not satisfied, make corrections and try again. Otherwise, proceed with the Main Show.

 

[DrFever]

Makes sense to me, although I've never tried to germ seeds that old.

For somebody accustomed to cloning, who has the wherewithall to do it, the small batch method makes sense. When you get a hit, a start, a seedling, you treat it like a mother plant until/if you get more, hopefully enough to do what you want. If initial methods don't work, you move up the voodoo ladder.

I'd examine the batch under a magnifier to discard obvious dings, grade the keepers. If I got any starts, I'd be careful not to overfeed 'em, mindful that NLD tropical varieties are often adapted to relatively poor soils.

It'd be nice to have some sort of holder for sanding the seed seam, but I haven't figured that out. I grow from seed, so far, & I hate duds, so I like to do that w/ all of 'em.

I would think crops grown decades ago would be much richer the vitamins and minerals then in today's yields soils 25 years ago vs today's
soils have been more or less depleting yearly from over growing thats fact even tho farmers amend it always lacking thus the new era of agriculture is Chem fed produce so if anything i would n worry about over feeding chances of the strain being more stable in genetics most that show over fed traits are the ones crossed
for instance pure Afghanistan strain can will eat more then cross from it like a OG strain
Bottom line is unless you want to see what pheno's these old seeds have and see if its a good stable strain
other then that s for potency it will not come close to new gen genetics
be more like Mexican brick weed