2nd round knock out

[mudvaynefan]

This is the second round of plants Ive killed doing this, what it is I dont know.

Im using organic soil, organic worm castings, ro water, ff grow big, liquid karma.

Ive never even had a ph problem to speak of on my previous grow, Im not doing anything wrong to harm my plants, its got to be one of my tools.

Its my soil\castings\perlite mix. Its been locked in a rubbermaid blue tub, by no means air tight, for over 6 months.

I had to add 2 bags of perlite and mix together to save space during move.

It smells fine, no bad odor what so ever.Looks ok, hard to judge soil by looks for me.

You can see in pics just how much perlite I have in mix, is this too much? I really didnt think you could do too much.

Not with these results. I mix the ff weak cuase I thought maybe my last grow went south due to high ph\over fert.

I had to ditch it to make room for new grow, and now the same problem, only alot earlier in veg. Alot.

It took a while before it set in on other plants.

Were much larger before showed this sign of what ever it is. Im in a closet, not air tight, have timer, no light leak, no temp prob, no enviroment problems.

Ive had this occur with hps and cfl, both back to back grow attempt at this place. I dont over water.


I dont over fert. If the soil\castings can go bad somehow by just sitting, then someone else has had this problem and can help a bit.

I could not even imagine what else it could be. Thanks if you read all that, here are the pics.

 

[mudvaynefan]

 

[thc43]

could be a few things but id start with: repotting into larger pots, dont let soil get too dry looks dryer than id like in pics, causing the water content to drop so the salts increase.

If they dry out on a daily basis the pots are too small and soil soon becomes toxic and repels water. All id feed your seedlings in soil would be a root booster until about 20cm tall then feed 1/4 dose of a balanced nute but not really needed until flower.

also raise your light alittle no need to be that close, atm u could be cooking the roots,+ drying soil too fast and heating up the foliage. The flouro you have produces good light probally more than the flouros i use, at 20 to 30cm gap from plant to globe they will light a larger area without adding heat to the plant..

 

[MynameStitch]

m using organic soil, organic worm castings, ro water, ff grow big, liquid karma.

Your burning them straight up; you need to flush them plants out; are you growing out different strains?

Plants that size if your using a good mixture don't need to be fed right now...

what brand of soil are you using? You are over feeding your plants for there size; how much of those are you using... you are using a lot of nutrients for a plant this size dude; you are in soil, not hydro...... You need less nutrients in soil growing than hydro; soil holds in nutrients a lot longer than water holds nutrients.

 

[mudvaynefan]

Thanks for stopping by guys, this is killing me.

Literally, Im a legal med patient. I thought about the over fert issue as well, except my last grow, I didnt have the ff grow big till after they showed this problem.

It was just soil, castings, water. Then, I got ph correct kit, the ff, and lk.

The strain this round are sensi star from one of the local clubs, so who knows what it really is.

The clone is bag seed indica from my last grow, still have all those pics too.

I never thought about that drying soil+build up of salts\toxic soil.

I flushed them today with plain ro water, will do so until I see this go away, I just hope they live.

The leaves, once brown like in the pics, absolutely dry up, crumble to the touch about 9 hours after full onset of brown color.

I had my last grow in those same black containers you have thc43, I even thought maybe I transplanted to soon, maybe the roots werent happy in a bigger container.


I was even thinking it was the styrophom cup, till the others showed it.

Even my seedlings, the small one that is drooping, is showing and I in no way have fed those little ones. I dont feed the first 2 weeks, when I say I use the ferst I mean last grow.


Even then I mixed weak, just to be sure. One strange thing, it seems to take alot of water to get any to run off.

Its like this soil drys out fast, but the water wont run thru out the bottom. Its like it just absorbs and holds, but wont allow it to flow.

I mean, Ive taken about 15 plants from seed to flower in my limited experiance, scrog, sog, and lst, but those all went just fine.

I am able to not kill plants due to over water or fert, but this is just too much.

If they show improvment in the next 7 days of just plain water, then I will keep them and nurse them.

I also use jiffy pellets, any way this could, with the perlite\worm\soil mix, sitting in the bags, but sealed from dust and light and heat, could somehow grow some kind of mold, or break down into a toxic to my roots medium?


Those are healthy looking plants thc43. Im a big indica fan.

Heres last grow.

 

[mudvaynefan]

Picture 1 is a Phosphorus deficiency during vegetative growth.
Picture 2 is what a phosphorus deficiency looks like in flowering.

(Could be the problem, if it was locked from begging, could explain alot. )


These pictures show a boron deficiency in different stages.
Picture 1 (Contributed by: Turkish)

(No clue here, just looks kinda close to my pics.)


This is the most common and loved nuteburn (I could be, from the soil maybe? I didnt even feed the first crop till much later, and they showed this )



I will raise my lights a bit as well, but Ive always used cfl that close, I stick my hand in between the coils and leaf, leave it there for a minute, my fan blows right thru the coils, but with sick plants I doubt they really need intense light at this point.

Dam, this sucks. Quite a blow to ones day waking up and finding a dying crop, for the 2nd time.



From sick plants guide, only a few pics resemble my problem or close as I can see to looking like it.




Im thinking my soil maybe for some reason low on ph scale, maybe 4.5?

I correct the ph of any ro water I use, but what goes in may not be enough for correction. From reading around the guid and the sic plants sticky pics, I think maybe thats it.

But, this is new problems for me, hell problems are new for me, I know someone out there has had plants that look just like mine. If I can fix this in veg, I can continue with this grow.

I panicked last round and sent into flower early thinking I could get a crop out, but they did not grow very well at all due to the lockout\problem. I think something is locking out some nutes, but dam, what the hell happened to my soil\castings?

Oh crap,mid sentance, I just remembered I use a capfull of superthrive in about a gallon of water, but Ive always done that.

Does superthrive go bad after a few years? It was stored away from heat and light, bottle says it should be ok, what do you think?

 

[MynameStitch]

Ya, sounds like you got everything and did everything you could. A flush was a must; the reason why I was asking what brand is, because the mixture may be too strong for the strain you are using. I always use a seed starter mixture for my seedlings just to play it safe and then move them after 2 weeks to a better mixture.....

As for the superthrive don;t use it anymore untill they get bigger. do you realize 1 drop is all you need per gallon of water? A cap full could do around 20 gallons of water......

Your main problem is your plants are being burned; hopefully they all recover for ya.....

 

[mudvaynefan]

I absolutely agree with everything you say.While it was a mystery to me the first grow, I believe I know what it is.

The soil Im using, I bought it and didnt use it, till now, just mixed it, and while its organic, the plants dont lie.

Its overfed, way to early. I didnt feed the first ones till after they started with showing nute burn, I didnt even stop to think the soil and castings may be a bit strong for seedlings, or young plants that have yet to need that much food.

My first grow got alot farther before showing bad signs than this one, but I think I know why.

I waterd a bit heavier this time, I think the water made the nutes in the soil to avalible and too much for the young plants.



Yea, I just read a thread where you said like 15ml is fine in a gallon of water, I realize I used to much, but, Im sure the killer is toooooo much food in soil\castings, just cause it says organic dont mean it cant burn your babys.






Im flushing now, nothing but ph'd ro water, and in a little bit more than is needed.

Not if frequency, but in volume. I still dont get why its hard to get runnoff without dumping what seems like too much water on my plants.

My other soil drained away fine, hell, this mix has more perlite than Ive ever used.

But,. I know what the problem is, wich is half the battle.(ha)

Thank you for the sick plant guide,(stitch), { thc43}) for dropping by my thread with some help.

 

[MynameStitch]

/me nods, good! That is good you understand what is wrong, that way it's a much better chance it won't happen anymore!

Just always remember, all strains are different and some can take more nutes, but some can't.. some can take more heat and light and some can't.

Also another tip, I know you flushed them with RO, which is perfectly fine.
When you water your seedlings up to the first 2 weeks, never use RO, or distilled water . Seedlings still need those micro's that are in the water..... I Have seen a lot recently and have noticed RO is playing a role in slow growing seedlings......
so unless you have earthjuice microblast and some added lime to the mixture, then it's ok to use RO or distilled water on seedlings

 

[mudvaynefan]

Copy loud and clear.


Im going to get a britta filter so I can use the tap, Im sure once filtered its got alot of micro stuff, and if that doesnt work out, Ill just drink the britta water and buy distilled. And add ej, or other micro nutes.

Its sold pretty cheap around here, so Ill stock both in my room.Ill pick up one of those ec\tds pens, so I can have a better understanding of whats going on in my water.

I never could have thought this soil was as hot as it is.


Oh well, lesson learned, and Im thrilled at the prospect of saving this grow.

 

[MynameStitch]

Ya, a TDS pen is a huge help; even in soil growing, that way you know what is going into you soil and you know how much you are feeding your plants; a huge help for newer growers and experienced alike.