2ND grow, need last minute advise!!!

[gucci2x]

Hello fellow cannabis lovers!! Long-time lurker in need of some help.

I'm in the process of starting my 2nd grow very soon here, but am missing a very important piece of the puzzle! LIGHTS.

I finished my first grow a couple years ago and absolutely fell in love with it as we all seem to do. Of course I made every rookie mistake in the book and was in way over my head. And I told myself the next time I would learn from my many mistakes and do it better. Fast forward to today...

I am growing only one plant this time around. It will be going in a 2x2.5x6 tent in a 5gal pot. It is currently one week into sprout, vegging under one daylight 150w CFL, eventually will add more. Planning on doing a SCROG and topping. FFOF soil and eventually some FF nutes.

So here is my question.. should I go with the classic HPS for flowering or should I try a comparable LED if I can find one for a good price? I've narrowed it down to a few, but I'm still very on the edge, I've heard so much about both lights. Any experience with these below anyone?

HPS
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00P8P51ZQ

LED
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0185OLBPK

I would like to keep it in that price range, no more than $180. I'm just looking to grow some nice, dense nugs, so just curious if something along these lines will do the trick! Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks!!

 

[thejact55]

Well I've always ran HPS for flowering, but I have a vaporspectra LED hitting me tomorrow, woop.
Anyways, I guess here are things to consider to help make your decision.

#1- heat. Do you want to grow year round inside, summer included? Do you have a way to control HPS heat when it is hot? If not then LED is a better choice. This is why I am trying the LED, summer is a bitch. Air cooled helps alot, but still gets hot.

#2 light penetration- LED does good for SOG, where you don't have dense bush to shine through. HPS has better penatration. If your worried about lower Buda getting good light, HPS then.

#3- durability, I really don't know much in comparison of the two, but my thoughts. You have a tried and true HPS that does need bulbs from time to time. You have an LED that doesn't need bulbs changed ofter, but what if it takes a shit on you in a year? I dunno, does this happen often? No idea. My gut tells me through reading that people are often searching for the best warranty on these. My gut tells me there is a higher chance of issues...but this all could be completely false. What kind of warranty does that led company offer?

Both seem really inexpensive, and good deals, I just paid 300 for my specta 900.


Also do you hope to get a bigger grow space at some point? A 600 hps can do alot larger area. My 3.5x3.5 tent is easily covered by this light.

Get em both and do side by side grows!

 

[OldPhart]

Too much HPS! You are only talking 5 square feet. at 60w/sq ft, that is only 300W. I would expect good results out of a 250w HPS; and wouldn't even try to go over 400.

I don't know anything about LED, so I will let the resident LED folks deal with that question.

OP

 

[gucci2x]

Well I've always ran HPS for flowering, but I have a vaporspectra LED hitting me tomorrow, woop.
Anyways, I guess here are things to consider to help make your decision.

#1- heat. Do you want to grow year round inside, summer included? Do you have a way to control HPS heat when it is hot? If not then LED is a better choice. This is why I am trying the LED, summer is a bitch. Air cooled helps alot, but still gets hot.

#2 light penetration- LED does good for SOG, where you don't have dense bush to shine through. HPS has better penatration. If your worried about lower Buda getting good light, HPS then.

#3- durability, I really don't know much in comparison of the two, but my thoughts. You have a tried and true HPS that does need bulbs from time to time. You have an LED that doesn't need bulbs changed ofter, but what if it takes a shit on you in a year? I dunno, does this happen often? No idea. My gut tells me through reading that people are often searching for the best warranty on these. My gut tells me there is a higher chance of issues...but this all could be completely false. What kind of warranty does that led company offer?

Both seem really inexpensive, and good deals, I just paid 300 for my specta 900.


Also do you hope to get a bigger grow space at some point? A 600 hps can do alot larger area. My 3.5x3.5 tent is easily covered by this light.

Get em both and do side by side grows!

Thank you for the input! Oh man would I love to be able to afford both and do a side by side! Lol maybe one day. My tent will be in my basement which stays nice and cool all year round, so I'm hoping with enough air flow I shouldn't have to worry too much about heat. And I plan on keeping the grow space small for the next couple grows, so for at least the next year. I guess I'm just trying to maximize my yield on this one plant, so I was leaning towards HPS just due to the penetration factor. But if I SCROG and lollipop, that may not even be that big of a deal.

My biggest concern with LED is kind of my budget. I really can't go over $200 and I'm scared that's not enough for a quality LED light. I really don't want to spend all that on an LED and have it not perform as well as an HPS light would have. Hm...decisions, decisions lol.

 

[gucci2x]

Too much HPS! You are only talking 5 square feet. at 60w/sq ft, that is only 300W. I would expect good results out of a 250w HPS; and wouldn't even try to go over 400.

I don't know anything about LED, so I will let the resident LED folks deal with that question.

OP

I appreciate the input OldPhart!! Hmm, good point. Yeah, my first grow was done with 100% CFLs, and of course one of my problems was stretching and small, airy buds. Yeah, 600 is probably pushing it for my grow space. Maybe since it's dimmable I could turn it to around 75% or so and that might do the trick? I guess I was thinking long term with the 600w, because I will eventually move into a bigger space. Like I said, I haven't dealt with HPS in the least bit, I just figured the more light the better! Lol.

If a 400w would do the trick then might just do that. First off it would be cheaper (awesome) plus I'm sure it would be less of a heat risk as well! Plus if I want to expand eventually I could grab a 600 down the road or even another 400. Do you have any brands in particular to look into, or are most of them more or less the same?

I'm definitely leaning towards the tried and true HPS since I'm hoping heat won't be a HUGE deal for me. I just don't think I have the money for a quality LED at this moment. Maybe I'm wrong. Again, thanks for the input. Any more is always welcomed! I will let you guys know what I decide on by the end of the weekend!

 

[slave2thestove]

If you're looking for a reasonably price LED take a look at these guys...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-Mars-H...986470?hash=item565f0eb3a6:g:2voAAOSwOgdYqor-

They also sell in singles for about $60. At only 130 true watt I was nervous but after 2 grows have had great results-72 grams beautiful nugs on my last WW plant and 80 on my AK. Very quiet and doesn't put off too much heat. Electric bill is also silly low...

 

[gucci2x]

If you're looking for a reasonably price LED take a look at these guys...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-Mars-H...986470?hash=item565f0eb3a6:g:2voAAOSwOgdYqor-

They also sell in singles for about $60. At only 130 true watt I was nervous but after 2 grows have had great results-72 grams beautiful nugs on my last WW plant and 80 on my AK. Very quiet and doesn't put off too much heat. Electric bill is also silly low...

Interesting. I did see a few products by Mars, they seem to always have good reviews, I may have to reconsider. I just get confused with the wattage of the LED compared to HPS. I like the sound of a silly low electric bill when using LED. I wonder how much of a difference compared to HPS?

I'm just going to have to do some more research lol. I'm such an indecisive person to begin with, this was destined to be a difficult decision for me. I thank you for your input on the LED side of things slave2thestove. Hoping to have my made up here soon, we shall see..

 

[OldPhart]

I'm just going to have to do some more research lol. I'm such an indecisive person to begin with, this was destined to be a difficult decision for me. I thank you for your input on the LED side of things slave2thestove. Hoping to have my made up here soon, we shall see..

Good luck with that.... I actually got excited about LED and was ready to jump on the LED band wagon, but the more research I did, I became less and less convinced that they could compete with HPS. Trying to find a direct apples to apples comparison out there is a bitch, and I finally gave up and just bought a new bulb for an old HPS I had laying around. The one thing that I came to believe was that if you want to compete with HPS, you need to reach the same power density as HPS. When I talk about density, I'm talking real, out of the wall watts/square feet of space. I'm sure I'm going to upset the LED folks, but I just couldn't find proof that they could compete with HPS, at any lower density than the HPS. BTW, when sizing HPS, I consider 40 w/sq ft the minimum, 50 w/sq ft about right, and above 60 w/sq ft to be pointless. (not to mention really hot) Note: these are just what I have determined through trial and error, not sure if these numbers are in line with industry standards.

By all means, do your research, I just choose to give up, because I already had the HPS rig, so it only costed me a bulb to put it back in service. Figured I would revisit the subject later, when maybe there would be less confusion out there. I really want to kick who's ever ass it was that decided to just start stamping all sorts of "WATT" ratings all over the LED lights, based on god knows what, but it isn't reality.
/rant.

OP

 

[thejact55]

Yes, a 400 watt would be very sufficient for your grow space, that is what I started with. Love my 600 but it is overkill for your space. I personally agree, a hps is probably better than a led, but no personal comparative experience to base it on.

I was on the verge of getting a Mars led, but sprung for vaporspectra light at the end, longer warrantly. Came today, it is bright as fuck! But I agree with oldphart, rating is bullshit. My "900" watt led is probably like a 400-600 hps.

Power bill wise, I dunno I run the fuck out of my 600 and flouros and such, I don't notice shit on my power bill. To me this is a non factor. My personal opinion. But depending on location and power bills, I could be off on my opinion.

I think bottom line, if you want yeild, as you said a post or two back, hps wins, hands down IMO. Just decide if you want a 400 that better fits your current space or a light that might be overkill currently but you can expand with, and pound for pound a better efficient light..the 600 hps.

I think the cheapest 400 out there is HTG supply. Not air cooled, it gets hot, but super cheap. Mine worked for many runs, and now is in storage for the moment.

 

[w3rds]

Unless you are planning on using that LED for a much larger grow in the future, the one you linked is unnecessary (an inefficiently designed). My dad was designing and selling LEDs in their first years, back when it cost 1500 for a quality LED and a lot of these random name bargain deals you see on Facebook and eBay are garbage products. The fact that they were trying to market it as a "10watt diode" is the first thing that would have turned me off to it. For what you're describing, 600w LED would be plenty. I'm running 2x350 in my flower room right now and it's covering 4 plants evenly.

 

[w3rds]

Just checked into that Mars light listed, one of the people gave it a 5star but noted that the diodes may overheat and melt if you leave the lights on for more than 18 hours. How can you see something like that and still give it 5 stars? That's like saying the Galaxy Note was perfectly fine, as long as you didn't leave it in your car....

 

[gucci2x]

Just checked into that Mars light listed, one of the people gave it a 5star but noted that the diodes may overheat and melt if you leave the lights on for more than 18 hours. How can you see something like that and still give it 5 stars? That's like saying the Galaxy Note was perfectly fine, as long as you didn't leave it in your car....

Thanks w3rds! Haha yes I saw that review, definitely made me turn away from that one and a few others like it with similar reviews. As I've said before, I just haven't looked into LED enough to know good from bad. Honestly I was going purely off of Amazon and reviews like that. An LED may even be out of my price range at this time. If you have any company's and/or sites for me to refer to regarding quality LEDs, I am all ears.

As of right now, I decided to up my grow space. Not too much, but I ended up getting a 3x3x6.5 tent. Still haven't 100% decided on a light yet, but I'm leaning towards a 600w dimmable HPS. Yes, too much right now, but down the road I will want the 600w. I feel like dimming it to 50-75% will give me roughly 400w. Not dead set on it yet, but leaning towards it for sure. Hoping if I go this route the heat and electric bill won't be too big a problem...

I told myself I would make my mind by last weekend, just didn't happen. I'm still very early in veg, so I have a little​ bit of time. This week for sure tho.

Again, I thank everyone for their input, it has definitely been nice hearing different opinions from people with some experience with these lights!

 

[thejact55]

I run a 600 full blast in my 3x3 and it's perfect as far as light coverage. I'll dim it if theee are younger plants on it. Just got my second 3x3 and that LED, so soon enough I'll have a good comparison of the two. Best of luck to you.

 

[gucci2x]

I run a 600 full blast in my 3x3 and it's perfect as far as light coverage. I'll dim it if theee are younger plants on it. Just got my second 3x3 and that LED, so soon enough I'll have a good comparison of the two. Best of luck to you.

Nice, that's exactly what I wanted to hear!! Of course if there couldn't be any more decisions to make..Between an air cool hood and an air cooled tube, do you have a preference?

I know the tube is better at temp control with a little less light spread and the hood is basically the opposite. Im probably going with the hood, just because with proper ventilation, I don't think heat is going to be as big of a problem, especially in a basement that sits at around 55-60 degrees Fahrenheit​. And again, for my future grows i think having a hood with better light spread will be a good thing.

 

[OldPhart]

I would argue that an air cooled hood could be just as effective as a tube, you just need to insulate the outside of the metal parts so you don't have the massive radiant heat inside the tent. No this won't dramatically increase the temp of the lamp, it will just force the heat to be removed from the inside of the fixture, and not radiate through it. I can't believe how few people I see doing this, when I did this, it made a bigger difference than the initial setup of the cooled hood. You just want to make sure you don't use anything flammable, I used the high density fiberglass ceiling tiles, and just peal the plastic off. Some have spay coating on one side, I would just leave that and put it to the outside, others have plastic, I would remove that. then use the metal duct tape to attache it. Looks crude, but highly effective.

OP

 

[gucci2x]

I would argue that an air cooled hood could be just as effective as a tube, you just need to insulate the outside of the metal parts so you don't have the massive radiant heat inside the tent. No this won't dramatically increase the temp of the lamp, it will just force the heat to be removed from the inside of the fixture, and not radiate through it. I can't believe how few people I see doing this, when I did this, it made a bigger difference than the initial setup of the cooled hood. You just want to make sure you don't use anything flammable, I used the high density fiberglass ceiling tiles, and just peal the plastic off. Some have spay coating on one side, I would just leave that and put it to the outside, others have plastic, I would remove that. then use the metal duct tape to attache it. Looks crude, but highly effective.

OP

Thank you for the advice OP! I will definitely look into doing something along those lines. I ended up ordering the air cooled hood. Tent came in yesterday, got it set up today. Temp sits about 60 degrees with just CFL so I think I should be alright when my HPS comes in. My humidity is very low tho. Only 35%. May have to invest in a small humidifier.

May be a very dumb question but I have to ask..I'm going to purchase a pH meter. Ive found 2 nice digital ones at my local flower store. Now there is a soil pH tester and a water pH tester. Which one do I get? They look damn near the same and are about the same price. Its more about the pH of the water going in and the run off, correct? Not that the soil pH isn't important, but if I'm only to grab one... I'm sure either would work but I think I'm gonna grab the water one.

 

[OldPhart]

Get your light yet? I think you will be amazed just how f'n bright it is. BTW, those higher wattage HPS's are dangerous to eyes and skin. I even knew better, but when I was finishing my box, it was getting late and I couldn't see well, so I turned the 600 hps on to finish working in the box... I burned/blistered the top of my head/forehead *hair would have probably helped*. Just wanted to point out that they are no joke, and will jack you up, if you are stupid like me.

OP

 

[gucci2x]

Get your light yet? I think you will be amazed just how f'n bright it is. BTW, those higher wattage HPS's are dangerous to eyes and skin. I even knew better, but when I was finishing my box, it was getting late and I couldn't see well, so I turned the 600 hps on to finish working in the box... I burned/blistered the top of my head/forehead *hair would have probably helped*. Just wanted to point out that they are no joke, and will jack you up, if you are stupid like me.

OP

Oh no!! Thank you for the heads up! LOL I will have to be careful with that, I could totally see myself doing that. But to answer your question, yes I did get my light in and I am very pleased. It came with an MH and HPS bulb. Has a nice dimming setting. I plugged it in just to make sure both the bulbs worked and HOLY SMOKES were you right. Yeah, very, very bright. I have yet to hang it up in my grow tent yet though.

Which leads me to my next dilemma. Today is my 16th day from sprout. It was starting to look like it was out growing it's Solo cup, so I transplanted to a bigger pot. Which I'm glad I did, the root system was looking very nice. In a few days I would have probably been root bound, as the roots were just starting to wrap around the cup.

Anyways..As of right now I have my plant under around 200w of CFL lighting. One 150w spiral daylight CFL and two 24w equivalent LED type CFLs. It's definitely doing the job as of now I would say...
But my question is, is it too early to put my hood with the MH light in and just dim it to 50% or about 300w? I could keep it plenty far away from it probably 18"-24" or more if needed. Is it too early to put it on my plant? I'm still pretty early in veg.

I planned on giving it a few days to recover from the transplant, and then put the light in at 50% as I said. Just not sure if it's even worth it quite yet. I think I'll wait for now.

 

[Dodson1999]

I run 2 sunny crx and they work better than my 400 hips running side by side the leds finish sooner with better tric production

 

[w3rds]

Would Love a status update since you should be nearing harvest.