29" x 49" = 9.87 sqft... Too small for a 1K HPS?

[Hydro-Soil]

Hey All,

I have a new space to look at for setting up my old 1K HPS and I'm curious if it's too small?

The space is 2.42' X 4.08' or 9.87 square feet. That comes to roughly 101 watts per square foot. The space is in a tiny room with a window that will accept a 5K btu a/c unit so I'm not worried about temps.


Grow Method:
I'm planning on scrogging it (Finally, I get to scrog again. Yaaay!) using a hydroton/drip, A-La So-Quick style. Two of the 2x4 foot concrete mixing tubs from Home Depot should fit perfect in there, one above the other. Buckets sit in one tub and drain to the second being used as the res below. (no return hoses, just feed lines)

Ventilation:
DIY Stanley fan
I'm concerned that the fan will not pull enough air-flow through the scrog screen to keep humidity down.

DIY CO2
Yeah, for the first run I'll be doing my best to ghetto some CO2 levels in there. The room is essentially going to be sealed so I've got to get fresh CO2 in there some way or another. I don't see any way around it with the 100wpsqft and I figure I should be able to do a decent job with yeast and sugar. I'll be tending these babies quite closely.

Cooling
99$ Home Depot A/C unit. Decent unit for 150sqft room, the room this grow will be in is slightly larger than the grow space itself. Should keep things at around 70F, easy. Downside, manual controls meaning no automatic thermostat. (Ya get what you pay for though, it's a nicely built unit)


Options..... I have a pyrex Bake-a-Round in perfect condition....... I only have one entry into the space and it'd be tough to get access to more than one slice of a side of a vertical setup. I can't really see using a cool-tube in this setup as the cooling should be more than adequate.

I'd like to duct the fan output directly to the A/C intake but that may not be necessary.


I harvest in about 10 days and I'll be using the same pump and timers that are currently in my flower cab. (PL-L's will have to wait for further funding... My head stash won't be the same till then... Gahhh!)

Just like So Quick, I'm planning on running 1/2" flex tubing with 1/4" double barbed irrigation line inserts to attach 1/4" irrigation line to.


Questions? Comments? Suggestions?? I'm all friggin ears here.


Edit: Odor control will be DIY about a month into flowerr. Strain is C-99 that's really low odor and, for those of you that know, it has that special non-cannabis odor that I love.

 

[~fvk~]

It sounds like you've got it all planned it out already and in probably one of the best ways possible. I don't think there's really anything I could suggest so I just have a question for you... What are you shooting for in terms of numbers, if any at all? But yeah, that's a lot of light for your square footage, you're gonna have some big ass buds... I don't know if I'd call it overkill for your space considering I have never been in the 100wpsf position, so hopefully someone with the same wattage and similar dimensions will chime in...

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Desired yield? Enough?

I have no idea how much I can pull off that size screen and I have no experience with 100 wpsqft either. Heh. Definitely looking for input on someone that has some.

Gonna sleep on it.

 

[limey]

Way too much wattage for that space IMO. 10sq/ft or 1sq/m the most you should need is a 600w and I reckon with a good reflector you would get a decent crop off a 400w HPS (i used to grow in a 2.5ft x 4ft space using a 400w) or better still, two 250w HPS lamps

You may get slightly quicker, slightly fatter harvests by using a brighter bulb but:
*you will not be able to hang the lamp all that close to the SCROG because it will run hot and risk scorching your plants. So you are losing efficiency as the inverse square law means you could probably get as much light at the height of the canopy by running a lower watt, cooler lamp closer to the plant tops.
*The yield potential of your plants will be limited by their genetics. No matter how bright your lamp, you'll have hit the law of diminishing returns long before 1000w. Very few strains will yield more than 100grams per plant/500grams per sq m and 600w will deliver those weights ; the rule of thumb is that @ 1gram per watt would mean that you would have to harvest a key to make using a 1k lamp worthwhile and if you can get 1000g per harvest out of 10 sq ft, you're a better grower than I am!
*Not only might you struggle with the heat from the lamp scorching the plants, it will also heat up your grow space, so you will have to run your extractor fan constantly (which will be noisy and increases your security risks, and compromise the effectiveness of your C02) and/or burn loads of electricity using your air-con.

So, why bother with the extra cost on your electricity bill, the extra risk from I/R detection, a hot grow space and a scorching bulb? Seems like a false economy to reuse your old 1000watter to me. For a SCROG in a space that shape, I'd use 2x250w lamps or 1x600w

anyway, best of luck with your grow

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Way too much wattage for that space IMO. 10sq/ft or 1sq/m the most you should need is a 600w and I reckon with a good reflector you would get a decent crop off a 400w HPS (i used to grow in a 2.5ft x 4ft space using a 400w) or better still, two 250w HPS lamps

Thanks but..... I've had the 1K for a few years and don't have funds for any other light. Hell, I'm scraping the barrel to get this setup going. A few times now I've wished I'd gone with the 600w setup back then but.... the 1K was a bit cheaper. *sigh*


Anyone else with advice on how to best to deal with this kind of light intensity in this small of a space? I know 100wpsqft is intense but..... heat shouldn't be a problem at all. Can I get away with just keeping the light further away, or will they stretch, regardless of the intensity??

 

[robbiedublu]

I pretty much agree with limey, but if thats all you have to work with it should work ok. If it's a sealed room I think humidity is gonna be a problem.
Once it's done you can just sell an ounce or 2 of your harvest and buy the light you want.

 

[JackTheGrower]

I run 93 ( in theory )

I run 1500 watts in two 250 MH + one 1k HPS in 16 sq ft with reflective walls.

You can see they are in cool tubes and they adjust up and down.

A mature leaf can handle a lot more energy then we usually provide but the bulbs we use are crude providers of the proper energy so we need to use caution.
There is a thread on light energy here but I forgot what it's called.. Anyone?

I'm evaluating this setup this season.. It's a new design for me. so far so good..

light is one component in the system that is my garden. Air is really important!

Have a look at "my garden"

Pm me if you have more questions.

Jack

 

[Hydro-Soil]

B E A Utiful!

I ditched the reflector and went with the lamp hanging at a slight angle. I'm getting fairly even light levels in the whole room. Very nice

A stanley fan, some 6" flex ducting and I was able to vent the heat very well. Using a 6" starter ring, some cardboard and aluminum tape, I built a box over the intake of my $99 Home Depot window A/C unit and connected the ducting to it.


At temp setting 5 on the A/C, it keeps the whole area cool with a solid flow of 69F air.



Soon as my pH down and fresh bottle of FNB get here, we're off and running.

Thanks for the input all. I'll see if I can come back and add any tips I run across along the way.

 

[*mistress*]

1k, hung vertically, bare bulb.

perfect for that size room!

your light will absolutely saturate every sq" of the garden!

would train plant into bowl shape and permit light to hang ~4-6" above/diagonally from canopy. raise accordingly...

8-10" fan positioned on floor, blowing up thru canopy, carrying heat up+over light+out. maybe a small clip fan too... the air circulation will be key in that room. once flowering commences, the transpiration will be lots. have ac rigged so that can access bucket and dump daily. have used ac drain water as plant water w/ no issues; but am seriously into the no-waste/no-run-off method...

should be fine...

last run, let a s. grrll go 77+ days, after all other dames retired... just pulled bucket under 1k eye convers., tuned off mh, staked+tied to make bowl shape, and plant loved it. sealed room, ac, fermentaion c02...

will be good w/ 1-4 plants. would not go more than that, unless really know strain and when the turn lights to fill space.

thinning will be most important thing... during veg, note strongest branches. maybe reduce to 4-6 main leads, and train to bowl. getting rid of ~1/5 fan leaves @ week 1 of flower has only promoted shoot development.

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

 

[lysol]

*you will not be able to hang the lamp all that close to the SCROG because it will run hot and risk scorching your plants. So you are losing efficiency as the inverse square law means you could probably get as much light at the height of the canopy by running a lower watt, cooler lamp closer to the plant tops.

Inverse square law applies when there is no reflector only. Additionally it says nothing about light penetration. Yes a higher wattage light further back to create the same light INTENSITY provides _more_ light penetration meaning you can light a thicker canopy.

Also I'm just wondering when you built your box how does fresh air cool the coils? How are you collecting water? How are you scrubbing the exhaust for smells?

 

[Hydro-Soil]

1k, hung vertically, bare bulb.

perfect for that size room!

your light will absolutely saturate every sq" of the garden! !

Yep.

Thanks for the advice too, things should work out great. I decided against the scrog though, no way to reach into the back corner well enough. I'm thinking of going with water curing and perpetual, after this first run.

Thanks!

Also I'm just wondering when you built your box how does fresh air cool the coils? How are you collecting water? How are you scrubbing the exhaust for smells?

Well, actually... it's just a small room that I'm taking advantage of. If I'd built it, I definitely would have made easier access instead of a narrow door.

The A/C unit is in the window and the coils are cooled with outside air. The fan I have is inside the small room and vents into the slightly larger room that has the A/C in it.

I'm running C-99 and Princess Diesel this first run and both are very low odor strains. In a few weeks I'll be adding a slow exhaust fan, hooked to a scrubber, to keep a steady flow of fresh air coming through as well as odor-control. I may just scrub the room, depending on how the RH goes this first run.

Much appreciated for all the help, things are looking up

 

[masterKahn]

I'm in the same boat I have a 1000hps in an air cooled hood just sitting! I have no funds for a smaller light and I have limited space to grow. A 400w cabinet would be perfect but I can't afford a light.

I'll keep an eye on your grow for some inspiration. Maybe next month I'll see what I can do.



You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Hydro-Soil again.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Ok.... so everything is up and running ok so far.


Question:
Is there a general guideline that anyone knows of that would help me dial in the proper drip times for 1.5gal buckets under a 1K in a small room? LOL


I've done tons of reading on the times that people use for drip through hydroton and am thoroughly confused. On top of it, I have a non-standard setup with all this light so I don't know if that affects anything or not.

The growth if fine for plants growing a root system and I'm watering 5min on every 6 hours. No drooping or anything and they seem to be doing just fine.




Thanks!

 

[masterKahn]

As soon as I get a beefy fan and some carbon I'll be hooking up my 1000 hps, but all organic soil! good luck!

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Ran out of RO water and had to use my well water for 4 days. 250ppm out of the tap. Shouldn't be too much of a problem, eh?

Let's just say that next time I'll be flagging folks down on the road to get spare change. 4 days of tap water and I had crusty deposits on the hydroton and green slime coming out of the bottom of the buckets this morning.

I spent 5 hours today flushing the plants with clean water, taking everything down and washing it out. It's running with RO at 5.5 pH and H202 at approx 30ml/gal with just a plain CFL 'light' in the ceiling on for the night. I'll do another changout in the morning for some full str nutes again and fire up the 1K again at that point.

I could see the change starting and they're already reverting so I'm happy. I'll be even happier if I don't have that brown slime that takes SM-90 to get rid of. Hoping the brown slime attached to the green slime was just nute coloring.

 

[*mistress*]

.
Question:
Is there a general guideline that anyone knows of that would help me dial in the proper drip times for 1.5gal buckets under a 1K in a small room?...

...I'll be even happier if I don't have that brown slime that takes SM-90 to get rid of...

the drip timing can be difficult to estimate. depends on how much vapor pressure (moisture) is being dehumidified daily, anlong w/ actual water absoption. temps also play factor in how much to water...

in 4-5 gallon buckets of coco, if feed 10 gallons to xx tomato plants, w/in 12 hours, ac drainage bucke has ~5 gallons of water in it. temps @ 78-98*f... generally, want ~1/2 of the input water to be transpired out of plants and room. since plants are made up primariuly of water, and the media retains moisture, process is working efficiently if 1/2 water is used/retained, & 1/2 released into atmosphere.

once plants are established, can then bottom-feed. this is helpful because gardener can see the water being sucked into the drainage holes. too much water in coco is no bueno, unless it is bottom fed. let that oxygen permeate thru the media & up & out thru top layer... too much water places barriers in this process.

would estimate 16-32oz of water a day to begin. @ mid flowering, a plant in a 4-5 gallon container can easily drink 1-3 gallons a day.

here, know when to water by weight of container. if automated, use minimum amount and go up as plant matures...

iodine + h202 (@couple drops+couple cap fulls, respectively) will oxidixe any unwanted life... also plants (and humans) do use iodine. sludge is not so much a big deal, as long balanced w/ ^. here, h202 is added @ ea watering/feeding. aerobic microbes luv it!

enjoy your garden!

 

[fatigues]

Ran out of RO water and had to use my well water for 4 days. 250ppm out of the tap. Shouldn't be too much of a problem, eh?

Probably not. Though it isn't necessarily the PPM - it's the bugaboos in your water I'm more concerned about. (Mind you, that depends on what minerals those 250 PPMS actually are, too.)

Whatever the case, "should" is a big word, with a whole lot of even bigger assumptions buried beneath it. Everybody's well water is different.

I'd be a little concerned about the slime that popped up. Do you think there are a fair number of microorganisms in your well water that contributed to this rapid growth of slime and have you ever had it before?

It "should" (there's that word again) be fine once you get it under control and get your RO water back up and running...but the bio-organism count might be something you want looked at or dealt with in the short to medium term.

And no, I don't just mean for your plants' health and safety. I mean for you and your family's health in terms of potable water. Depending on where you are, e-coli in your well water would be exceedingly uncool and potentially life threatening. Definitely worth checking out, discretely, to make sure all is well with your well.

Do make sure you don't hit any panic buttons on getting the health check on your well water, or suddenly you may have license inspectors show at your property wanting to examine your well, pump, and basement. Depending on the status of your grow, that visit might be exceedingly uncool as well ...

 

[Hydro-Soil]

Probably not. Though it isn't necessarily the PPM - it's the bugaboos in your water I'm more concerned about. (Mind you, that depends on what minerals those 250 PPMS actually are, too.) ]

Well... over 100ppb is arsenic so I'm glad I changed the res out as quickly as I did.

Do make sure you don't hit any panic buttons on getting the health check on your well water, or suddenly you may have license inspectors show at your property wanting to examine your well, pump, and basement. Depending on the status of your grow, that visit might be exceedingly uncool as well ...

Thanks for the heads up but we're cool here. The well has been tested and we've never drank the water and only used it to cook with for about a week. I don't particularly care to bathe in it but I don't get any allergic reactions unless I shower every day. Little blisters of clear fluid telling me my body doesn't like the heavy metals when I shower every day. (Don't worry, I don't eat much processed food so I don't stink horribly. LOL Hardly ever need to use deoderant either. I smell nice with the food I cook and eat. )

 

[Hydro-Soil]

iodine + h202 (@couple drops+couple cap fulls, respectively) will oxidixe any unwanted life... also plants (and humans) do use iodine. sludge is not so much a big deal, as long balanced w/ ^. here, h202 is added @ ea watering/feeding. aerobic microbes luv it!

Awesome! Thanks for the tip. So far the H202 has been eating everything really well but I'll definitely get some iodine asap.

As for the watering.... the hydrofarm digital timer only has 8 on/off settings a day and I've been running 24/7. Been using a mechanical timer with 10-15 minute push down switches every 3 hours. They're looking excellent. I appreciate the info

 

[masterKahn]

I have city tap water @ about 100 ppm and it's like poison to plants I think. I've switched to distilled water. My Mazar was crisping up and dying and now it is limping along, maybe it's afgan genes aren't used to tap water!

I hooked up my 1000hps in about 4' x 2' and I'm worried it's way to small an area but we will see.