( 250 hps users!!!) Average Yields under 250 watt hps??

[Peeping Tom]

Was just wondering what you guys are pulling off 250 watt hps lights? How many of u r pulling gram per watt / more??? Whats your setup like? What strain are you useing? What pot size?

Is it feasible to get gpw in 5 gal pots (in soil) under a 250 hps vegged under fluoro for 1-2 months from clone, (strain either Nirvana White Rhino or Nirvana Bubblicious). What do you guys reccomend for veg time? What you thin of pot size would 5 3 galon pots do better? Trying to stick to 3 5 galons.

 

[magiccannabus]

250W Grow Club

 

[Peeping Tom]

250W Grow Club

been lookin through that and ALOT of good info there so appreciate the response but was just trying to get all those people to post there best worste and average yields here so i dont have to dig through all the info...

 

[Shred42O]

think of the 1g/1watt if you got a good setup dialed in you can get 1g/1watt but your alot more likely to get any where from .4g/1watt to .8g/1watt your first time around

so ifs it your first time i wouldnt put your hopes up to high its better to set them low and to be happy if you actually get more then you thought instead of feeling all bummed out when you get alot less then you thought you would because of other peoples experiences

 

[dondeago]

best..... for me was approx 6oz off 2 little ladies..... worst 1.5 off 2( that was the first run many moons ago.)
Average about 4 though... more than enough..... as shred420 says, if this is your first don't aim high, you'll only disappoint yourself.

 

[judas cohen]

IMO, cheapest, simplest, best yield from 250 is vertical lamp, 4 vert scrog screens individually attached to four 3 or 4 gal kitty litter containers (or $ store plastic waste baskets) surrounding the lamp.

No reflector or cooltube or ducting. Just a cheap $ store 8" fan directly under the lamp blowing straight up. Construct 4 vertical rectangular screens from 1/2" PVC and twine with ~ 3"X3" square holes. Screens should be ~ 18" wide X ~ 24" tall.

Exhaust hot air from top of cab with a 4" centrifugal fan (~170 cfm) sucking through a carbon filter. Have ~ 50 sq in of passive intake close to floor.

Make cab a minimum of 3'X3'X5' tall (You'll need room at the top for carbon filter/fan combo exhausting out the side. You also need wiggle room to slide the plants out for tending/training )

Paint the inside walls flat white. (Once the screens fill in, no light will reach walls. It will all hit the plants.)

Sex, top, and veg plants. Flip to 12/12 when they reach ~ 8" tall. (Any taller and plants will outgrow top of screen during stretch.) The screens go between the plants and the lamps. Keep weaving the branches in the screens as they persist in growing towards the light. Prune branches on the dark side of the plants. (You want to avoid overfilling the screen, or wasting growth energy on leaves/buds not receiving light.)

Keep the tip of the light 2-3" below the top of the plants, and adjust the height as the plants grow. If sativa dominant, excessive height can be discouraged by keeping base of lamp just below top of screen. Remember: Tips grow towards the light.

Even the buds on the most distant part of the screen (edge of screen area) will receive a minimum of 5000 candle power, and the closer buds will receive 10,000 cp (same as sunlight at the equator.) Result is no popcorn to mess with when trimming/curing.

Screens total 12 sq ft. Depending on strain, your skills, and Lady Luck: Yield will be 4-9 total oz from the 4 plants. (1/2 to 1+ gm/watt....which aint too shabby....) LOL

Be Happy/Grow Safely

 

[VerdantGreen]

got any pics of that judas ? - doesnt seem anywhere near as simple as horizontal to me, and i havent seen any vertical setup that outyields my horizontal mod.scrog as yet.

V

 

[judas cohen]

High VG! I don't have a camera. Sorry if I'm slow getting back to you, but my dial up connection is running at 24k and I type real slow. Also, it's 6AM here and I have to get going.

My set-up is similar(but uses taller screens) with 250 HPS stacked above 250 MH. IMO, vert screens are easier than horizontal because you train from the back, rather then from underneath. Each plant/screen is a unit and can be removed from the cab, thus is totally accessible from all sides.

As for yield, how many square feet is your screen? To equal the 12 sq ft, it would have to be like 3'x4' and that would put the side edges ~ 18 to 24" from the center line of your lamp. Mine are a max of ~11". Inverse square law and all that. LOL

I've read a lot of your posts and respect what you have to say. Maybe my post didn't explain it right..... I'm talking 4 vert screens forming a box around an unshielded vert lamp. Total 12 sq ft of screen with ever point on every screen no more than ~12" from the center of the box. (Dern!!! I wish we could talk intead of type. LOL)

Let me know if we're on the same page, and I'll get back ASAP. Like in a few hours? Also, I need to edit a coupla details, but not the stuff we're discussing.

Looking forward to mor communication with you.....Judas

 

[thcrefugee]

judas, that sounds very promising. thanks for the idea!

 

[VerdantGreen]

hi judas - my setup is also modular so the individual screens/pots can be removed. i have 4 horizontal screens which are just over a square foot each so my grow area is just over 4 square foot - which gives me a nice 60watts/square foot. i understand what your setup is like and would be interested to see it.

i always choose my strains for quality rather than high yield but i still (so far) have had a minimum of 1g/watt and a maximum of 1.6 g/watt.

check my diary if you like for more details - and try to borrow a camera so we can check out your cab

cheers

V.

 

[judas cohen]

VG: I got some unexpected spare time. I think I gave you rep for your grow a few weeks ago. Very Nice! Were both organic dirt, scrog, and 250.

Check out the first post here. http://icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=127881 It explains things pretty good. It's simple geometry, inverse square law, and screen area with more efficient use of light. Don't get side tracked about colloseums, multiple shelves, high density plant numbers, etc. Apply the diagrams to what we're doing.

You can triple your screen size (& number of buds...Yay!!!), with about same watts/sq ft, run cooler, and save the cost of a reflector and ducting by flippimg your present set-up from horizontal to vertical. Play with the idea & tell me what you think.

I suggest you KISS... Don't bother to go for circular screens, etc to squeeze the last drop of efficiency. We're just doing 4 plant personal grows. Bet you could exceed your personal best with a simple redesign your first time you try vert.

Look closely at dimension and numbers I originally posted to make sure they're compatible with your space. Plan on keeping all buds no closer than 6" to lamp, and no farther away than 12". You're only efficiently utilizing about 1/3 of your light and space. Put the other 2/3 to work, 'mano!

Gotta run. We'll talk again in this thread.

Always a pleasure, Judas

 

[VerdantGreen]

hi again judas! - i've seen that post and it's pretty compelling, but i cant work out how you can say that i will have the same watts/square foot if i triple my grow area going vertical.

i have an ecotechnics diamond reflector that i think is very efficient.

i also think it's a BIG presumtion to think that plants can utilize horizontal light as efficiently as vertical light. (meaning light from above (horizontal setup) is better used than light from the side (vertical bulb with plants around it)

are there any vertical grows on IC that are getting yields of 1g/watt and above? would love to see them...

this probably isnt the place for an in-depth debate about horizontal vs vertical, but for me to change my setup i would want to see the actual results in buds rather than the theory
another common myth (imo) is that hydo yields more than soil. hydro my be slightly quicker but grams/watt i havent seen any proof that it yields better.

personally i think yield is more influenced by grow method and how many of your buds are at the perfect distance from the light - thats why i rate scrog so highly

cheers

V.

i think what's most important is that you choose a method that you believe in and that works for you.

 

[DankSide]

250 can yield pretty well, it all depends on a lot of factors. I did well above my goal of .5 gpw in a 2' by 2' area, though plagued with lockout and deficiency problems near the end. With good temps, happy plants and a scrog or sog in a tight area, I'd say you could produce close to the gpw dream goal.

 

[Work2much]

hi again judas! - i've seen that post and it's pretty compelling, but i cant work out how you can say that i will have the same watts/square foot if i triple my grow area going vertical.

i have an ecotechnics diamond reflector that i think is very efficient.

i also think it's a BIG presumtion to think that plants can utilize horizontal light as efficiently as vertical light.

are there any vertical grows on IC that are getting yields of 1g/watt and above? would love to see them...

this probably isnt the place for an in-depth debate about horizontal vs vertical, but for me to change my setup i would want to see the actual results in buds rather than the theory
another common myth (imo) is that hydo yields more than soil. hydro my be slightly quicker but grams/watt i havent seen any proof that it yields better.

personally i think yield is more influenced by grow method and how many of your buds are at the perfect distance from the light - thats why i rate scrog so highly

cheers

V.

i think what's most important is that you choose a method that you believe in and that works for you.

Hi again VG. Did you ever wonder over to PG before it got shut down a few months ago? They had a vertical forum where guys were doing it big, with pictures. Their vert forum was light years ahead of IC's, and was even better then anything on OG back in the day. Several guys where running a 600 watter vert surrounded by six plants and pulling a couple pounds every run. It was very impressive and would have made you a believer. The buds were huge from top to botttom, completely unlike scrog buds which are just large above the screen. I've noted your polite skeptisim when discussing vertical, and rightfully so as there aren't many good examples around here but trust me, it is a very efficent way to grow. I'll see if I can't dig up any examples and post them here.

 

[Work2much]

Peeping Tom sorry for the small thread hijack, I'll be back on topic in a second..

VG, here's a good vert grow.

http://icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=117026&highlight=dr+bush

Ok, Peeping Tom I think 250 watter is the largest size that a personal grower would ever need, although it is hard to not be tempted to creep up into 400-600's etc. A 250 in a moderate sized area with a scrog or medium density sog could pull 1gpw after being dialed in.

Check into coco for a while before going soil, its a little more tricky but the growth rate is great and its easy to fix problems with a quick flush.

 

[judas cohen]

Hey VG! Totally agree that all that matters is the method pleases the guy doing the growing.

I was offering my opinion based on my experience when I suggested vert lamp/scrog to Peeping Tom. I started with horizontal lamp/horizontal scrog and liked it. Then read a thread a coupla years ago at TCC that made me stop and think. It was a stone PITA to build a new cab. Glad I did, and would never go back. But that's just me. LOL

We're both just offering PT our experiences in good faith, and whatever he chooses is what's best for him.

Gram/watt is a rule of thumb that I understand and make use of, but it doesn't mean much to me in terms of efficiency unless you factor in the amount of time and electricity used to get your harvest. Also different folks manicure differently, which can make a big difference in weight.

Rule of thumb is dry weight is ~70% of wet weight, plus or minus.Also, some folks weigh their ganja when not as cured as some other peeps prefer theirs. Sometimes scales need calibrating, just like sometimes pH pens need calibrating....

If I get busted, I'm a personal hobby grower with 4 flowering plants and there's no scales, or guns in my house. Peace of mind is important to me.

Some prefer high count Sogs because they claim it out yields Scrog... and they have gm/wt numbers to "prove it". Cool with me.

I suspect some people flat out lie. But how can that be proved over the internet... More importantly, why should I care? They gotta live with their lies- I don't.

I grow for fun and mental medication. Weight doesn't matter as much to me as taste and effect. Weighing reefer is tedious and boring, IMO, and best left to dealers and scientists conducting controlled experiments. But that's just me...

Lotsa other good people and excellent growers feel differently and consider their grow unfinished until it's weighed and photographed. I don't have a problem with that. It's just not my preference. Works great for them.

Last post you stated, "I also think it's a BIG presumption to think that plants can utilize horizontal light as well as vertical light." Not exactly sure what you intended to say, but did you accidently say it backwards? No biggie....

Just like the Inverse Square Law For A Point Source Of Light falls apart if you try to apply it to a plane source or a line source, instead of a point source of light; watts/square foot is a rule of thumb that is difficult to apply to vert lamp/vert scrog. Other factors come into play.

I asked for your opinion about the 100gramoz thread. Thanks for the feedback.

You're getting big yields from horizontal lamp/screen...especially for a 250 in the dirt with no CO2 enhancement. I say, "Why Change What Works So Well For You? If It Aint Broke, Don't Fix it!"

Peeping Tom: I apologize for hijacking your thread. At least you have Horizontal and Vertical Points Of View to choose from. And they both work.

EDIT: Missed your second paragraph of questions, PT. 4 plants in 5 gal dirt containers vegged under flouros until 12", and flowered under a 250 will likely yield you a total weight of ~1-4 oz, depending on a lot of things. That's a guess, based on what I know about your grow plans. I've never grown Gypsy's WR or Bubblicious, so I can't comment on that question. Good Luck, 'mano!

 

[VerdantGreen]

great post judas!. i agree with what you say in the most part. my statement about vertical horizontal light was a bit misleading and i clarified it. my point was that fan leaves (imo) are designed to receive light from overhead and form a perfect circle around the bud to efficiently use that light.

work2much - thanks for the link, i'll check that out i never saw the site you mentioned - but 2lb from a 600 is about 1.5g/w which is good! (similar to what i got when i ran a high yielding strain)
i suspect at the end of the day that a very good horizontal would probably yield much the same as a very good vertical.

cheers

V.

 

[Peeping Tom]

appreciate all the replys deffinatly. does it take a very high yielding straing to reach gpw yields. and who has reached this and what strain?

 

[medmaker420]

1g/w yes that takes some effort for sure.

250 would be over 8+ zips and from a 250 that would be GREAT to hit.

First time grower? doubtful unless you had a serious sog or scrog going and even then it would need to be PERFECT and dialed in.

I think it would be best if you are worried about yield would be to OVERDUE the lighting in the area or go LARGER so you won't be as disappointed BUT I have seen many NEW 250hps lucky to even get an ounce from their first attempt.

Hope for the best but be realistic in your first attempts. A green thumb will not grow overnight.

 

[Peeping Tom]

1g/w yes that takes some effort for sure.

250 would be over 8+ zips and from a 250 that would be GREAT to hit.

First time grower? doubtful unless you had a serious sog or scrog going and even then it would need to be PERFECT and dialed in.

I think it would be best if you are worried about yield would be to OVERDUE the lighting in the area or go LARGER so you won't be as disappointed BUT I have seen many NEW 250hps lucky to even get an ounce from their first attempt.

Hope for the best but be realistic in your first attempts. A green thumb will not grow overnight.

so no1 personally here has hit gpw with ne strains under a 250 hps? anyone know if nirvana bubblicious and/or nirvana white rhino r good yielder? ive been told the bubblicious is a dense super fat main cola plant that can produce up to 2oz main colas and super easy to grow. So sounds like a good yielder to me. Anyone?