2 weeks into Flower....HELP- *PICS*

[spyvsspy]

SOIL:
What STRAIN are you growing? Papaya from Nirvana
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) Seed
What is the age of your plants? 2 weeks into flower- after 3 months veg
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Flower
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) Free growing
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 5 gal/ 1 per pot
What substrate/medium are you using? (percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) only perlite and 1 tbsp/ dolomite lime/ gallon.
What Nutrient's are you using?How much of each? How Often? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*-- In description
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? 6.7 run-off from 6.3 pre-water
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? pH pen
How often are you watering? good watering every 3-4 days, every other feed
What size bulb are you using? 400 watt HPS
What is the distance to the canopy? 20-23 inches
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 40-55%
What is the canopy temperature? 68-75 degrees
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)day-75, night 65-70
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) circulating fan
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? no
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? wait until dry 2 inches down (3-4 days) to water
Is your water HARD or SOFT? I used Artesian or Distilled Water
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? No
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? Neem Oil every foliar every week or two
Are plant's infected with pest's? Slight fungus gnat infestation in room



G'day everyone. I'm growing Papaya from Nirvana Seeds in a mix of soil, perlite and Dolomite Lime at 1 tbsp/gal of soil. I started flowering about 2 weeks ago and two of my many are showing issues which started basically when I started flowering. Starting at the bottom of the plant moving up quite quickly, the leaves start to wilt at the stalk then it moves out the branch. First they get brown spots then turn completely yellow almost overnight and wilt up and fall off.
When I started flowering the problem had already started to show a little in the lowermost leaves, I first watered with a mix of 1 tbsp PBP bloom, 1/4 tbsp of PBP grow and 1/4 tbsp of epsom salt per gallon of water, then pH balanced to 6.5. Then a watering of pure water 4 days later, then the same nute mix with the addition of a light top dressing of Jamaican bat guano 5 days later.
I watched as the problem progressed, still not too bad at this point, then for some reason (I was a little buzzed) I gave a foliar feed of 1/4 tsp pbp grow/ quart thinking it maybe needed an extra N boost at the beginning of flower. The problem progressed and I sprayed with pure water 2 days later realizing that may not have been a good idea
I did this same thing to all 12 of them, and only 3 are showing any ill effects. I watered with pH balanced water of 6.3 last night, and the runoff pH was 6.7. (pH pen). As you can see the upper parts of the plant look completely healthy and great, the buds are forming nicely but the bottom of the plant is slowly wilting up and dying off. The dying hasnt reached the end of the bottom branches yet, but is progressing. As you can see in the last two photos the top leaves are looking great- all the pics are from the same plant. This one if front and center in my room, so maybe I've been giving it a little TOO much attention and loving.........
Any ideas or suggestions of what could be going wrong here would be GREATLY appreciated.
Thanks for your help and grow on everyone.
-Spy

 

[GreenFriend]

Hey there bud,looks like a combination of things to me friend.The yellowing looks like a classic nitrogen deficiency because its on an older leaf.You also have a magnesium deficiency starting there also as evident buy your middle leaves starting to get yellow on the outsides in.Your using pureblend original? They have very low n-p-k you may not be getting enough food to them laides.i wouldent worry to much they look to be in good health otherwise..id up the nutes an add a little more epsom salt to your feed water.Or do a foliar feed with some mgs04 Your getting pretty much no magnesium since your using soft water..

Good Growing friend

 

[spyvsspy]

Thanks for the quick reply! Yea I'm using Pure Blend Pro Bloom Soil Formula ( 1.5-4-5) defenitely a low N content, thats kinda what I was suspecting, thats why I added a little Pure Blend Pro Grow Formula (3-1.5-4) in there for the beginning since it has a little more N; but still not much. Both are 1.0% Ca and 0.5% Mg.

 

[BigAl]

It's interesting to see how different the opinions can be on this site.

Me thinks this is too much nutrients. Look at all them yellowing tips, I reckon your running just a lttle bit too hot.

 

[Core]

ph issues imho .....i may be wrong but to be shure you should take accurate ph of the medium...taking runoff is't accurate as you would think...
take some soil in a cup add water (not just from the top..Little dieper) ...let sit for 5 -10 minutes and test that...should give you 'accurate' ph readings...

 

[GreenFriend]

O i didnt realize you were using the the pro version i missed that lol.That should be fine thru flowering.I dont think you mentioned what your ppms are either, id still up your mag intake with soft water your not getting what you need.Pick up some cal-mag bro..

GoodGrowing

 

[spyvsspy]

Yea I'm gonna go pick up some cal-mag tomorrow for good measure, I'm starting to see a little calcium def. on another girl, Gracias Green Friend. Core: I just took a couple spoonfuls of soil from 3-4 inches down and added it to a little 6.00 water, waited 10 minutes and got a pH of 6.6...... seems to be alright, what'dya think?

 

[Core]

it realy needs to be distilled water my friend...i realy can't say anything without accurat ph...if PH is in order i would say she's N and P def...but, if its a lockout...then you're further from home...so i would work it from the accurate ph...
Nway wait fot Stitch..she's has a PHd in Plants....i don't...i'm just chucking my here

ohw yea ..and to be good you should realy let the pots dry out well....then water/feed them again...

 

[spyvsspy]

Your are more than welcome my friend, keep 'em coming! So i just happened to find some distilled water laying around, re-calibrated my meter and tried again with it............ read a 7.25. Little bit high for sure. I'm gonna work on lowering that- could that be the source of all this??? Most of the time I feed I check the pH before and its usually around 5.9-6.5 before I water. I was kind of suspecting a little lockout issue- thats why I foliar fed that one time, didn't seem to make a difference, only made it worse if anything.
Nice gallery by the way Core!!!

 

[Core]

this indeed could be the source of all your troubles...it has to come down asap...say between 6.3 and 6.7 thats the optimum levels !
i hope you have PH-coz thats the most stable ....becoz my advise would be flushing the pots out on a 1/2 - 3/4 strong watering/feeding.....
and only adjust ph when everything is in ...

ohw and thx mate....hope you like them girls :smile:

 

[spyvsspy]

Any more thoughts good people??? Some nutrient lockout and/or burn issues as well as high pH?? Stitch..........??

 

[MynameStitch]

Well, since ya asked for my thoughts I will post my 2cents

I did not post here, because everyone here has pretty much answered your questions; your problem is indeed burn/ lockout issues......
Also stop using the pH adjuster; that is really how your pH is getting off. Ph adjusters stay in the soil longer than tap water does for some reason I have no clue why..... so stop pH adjusting your water it's not going to solve anything unless you slam them with water every other day..... but you are not doing that so it's not going to affect your situation......

Your pH adjusting the the amount of bloom you are using is causing your issues, use 1 tsp to 1 1/2 teaspoon per gallon for now the rest of them you can use just fine with no issues.

 

[spyvsspy]

Allllrighty- so quit pH adjusting and use 1-1.5 tsp/gal of Bloom, gotchya. In the past most of the time when I add the usual dose of Bloom and/or PBP grow it brings the water pH down to about 6.3 or so, so I really have never had to adjust that often after adding the nutes. The only time I've really been adjusting is when I water with plain distilled water every other watering- for some reason the water I get here is 7.4 constantly, tested on many different meters. (I've been told it's because of the altitude I'm at ; 7,000 feet- not sure if thats the reason or just the brand, weird stuff though). Anyways, What kind of lockout am I looking at here?? (N, P, K, Ca, Mg...etc) I've been trying to put my finger on it, I'm more curious than anything- and would you guess simply using that ratio of bloom and water, with a little CalMag would combat this lockout issue and hopefully stop the progression?
Thanks for all the help good people

 

[MynameStitch]

Why use distilled water? You know when you do that you are robbing your plants of micronutrients, unless you are supplimenting them with micronutrients like you are....
Just a thought

If the pH of the distilled is 7,4 it's not distilled there is calcium and magneisum in there; I would get a different brand, cause you are getting seriously ripped off. Distilled is supossed to have a very low pH, not neutral..... supossed to have a pH near of RO water.....
The only way you are going to be able to fix this issue is by flushing your plants with regular water to try to get the pH adjuster out of the soil.
Flush with a little bit of water... few gallons. I would flush with tap water not distilled.
no, no calcium you just have a buildup a little bit and the pH stuff in your soil is causing some issues hense the spotting you are seeing.

Wait about 3 to 5 days before feeding again and stop using the ph adjuster all together; that is really used for hydro only imo; the only real way to bring your soil ph down is by adding amendments to your mixture.

You can use sawdust, peat moss, coffee grounds..... wood dust those kinds of things to bring your ph down.

So all you are using is perlite and dolomite lime for your mixture? If so this will be very simple to bring down your pH.
No, you are already using micro's which should have enough of it. You do not have a calcium issue at all. Calcium is spotting and it' starts in between leaf veins or can start of leaves edges, calcium does not spot like that, cal mag does not help from lockout; you have to fix the issue that is causing the lockout before you could even start to fix the problem it caused.

 

[spyvsspy]

Sounds like a plan! I honestly don't know why I've been using distilled water, especially bunk distilled water that obviously isn't really distilled.......... well, you live and you learn.
Thanks for the help and I will post some pictures soon and show any improvements (hopefully). I think I'm going to go the coffee grounds route, I've heard this works wonders for roses and other plants that like slightly acidic soils, and plus I have a good friend that works in a local coffee shop. How do I go about this method?? I tried searching for general directions about this method but couldn't seem to find much. Do I Just sprinkle some on the surface? Roughly how much for 5 gallon pots? yadda yadda yadda........... Thanks again for all the help

 

[MynameStitch]

This is where you are going to have to decide; because you will have to take a bit of your mixture and put it with some of the grounds and water, get the pH and post back here..... it's got to be slowly add some and test; otherwise too much you got issues; coffee grounds are different depending on them. get just regular coffee grounds, nothing added like french vanilla or other added ingrediants... just regular ground up coffee grounds.

There will never be set amount for soil, because every soil pH is different, so you have to add a bit and test and keep testing until you get the right amount.

 

[Guest]

Amen brother Core and sister Stitch.

I find more issues caused by pH than any other element of the grow.

Stitch, teach me something if you will. I'm just gonna tell you where my mind is going with this and then if you would please educate me and whip me into the right way of thinking.

If we're dealing with a pH issue, I'd want to flush with distilled water instead of tap for this reason. In the first place the roots have been sitting down there frying in all the stuff the plants can't eat cause the pH is fukked up, mmmmkay? So they're gonna be comprimised and when we do hit the pH that unlocks the door to the kitchen the plants are gonna be takin up some heapin helpins of botany's equivalent of a chicken fried lard float, mmmmkay? Plus with the roots being sort of singed by the fires of hell, I'd want to provide them as neutral an environment as possible while they got a little r&r. For a day or two anyway.

In coco I always want to get everything out and then flood the right stuff in. Is that different in soil?

I know that soil doesn't drain as well as coco but isn't a one-shot flood the hell out of it and get it over with approach permissible?

Educate me girl cuz I'm waitin to learn, maaam. See, I don't know shit about soil, cept I gotta sweep it up when I track it in, lmfao. Sorry, but my girl Kali is twistin me a little tonight, mmmmkay? I may ramble a bit and bump into a few things, but...



Told you I could be a pest, hehe.

Peace

BTW, Stitch. I hope I didn't offend ya girl when I called you a stoner. I meant it in a very warm, nostalgic sort of way.

 

[spyvsspy]

So they're gonna be comprimised and when we do hit the pH that unlocks the door to the kitchen the plants are gonna be takin up some heapin helpins of botany's equivalent of a chicken fried lard float, mmmmkay? Plus with the roots being sort of singed by the fires of hell,

"Chicken fried lard float" LOL, I like it.

So I gave my ladies that are showing issues a good ol' fashion flushing today, and am planning on starting to work with the coffee grinds in a couple days. The buds and fan leaves are still growing quickly and are looking healthy on those 3, and the progression SEEMS to be slowing a little.
Anyways, thanks again for all the help ladies and gents. I'll post pictures soon with the progress.

 

[MynameStitch]

I also forgot to mention if youcan't get coffee grounds, get some pH down from a hydro store; the ones you buy like lemon juice and such are not stable and won't keep your pH that way for long......
so if the coffee ground thing is confusing to you get some pH down.

 

[spyvsspy]

I think I'm gonna go ahead and try the coffee ground method- one of my good buddies has done it many times and swears by it.......................so we'll see how that goes- but I'll go and pick up some pH- just for good measure.

By the way, this picture is from my other troubled lady, does it look like the same issue?? Right after I took this picture I barely touched the leaf and it fell off. Leaf didn't feel dry except for the brown spot at the tip.
P.S. The green leaves to the bottom right are on the branch below the branch of this leaf..................I don't know...........
Anyways, thanks for the help
-spy