2 problems-Proud daddy

[Guest]

Hello folks,

Some plants look nice, green and healty,and some have rusty spots on the leaves, and 2 plants have claw-like leaves.Some of them also have leaves curved up and inward (the edges).
They are all in soil, fed once weekly with Plagron organic fertilizer, and wattered by need in between. The temp is 25C, humidity between 50-70% (we had rainy weather), and the light is set to 20/4 (600W Hpsm set 70cm above). The ventilation is good, and there is one oscilating fan running when the lights are on.
I dont know the Ph of water, as I do not have the meter yet.

Any ideas?

 

[Guest]

THOSE PICS SCREAM pH! do NOT buy a 'Rapitest' meter!! A test KIT can be had for $5CAN

THOSE PICS SCREAM pH! do NOT buy a 'Rapitest' meter!! A test KIT can be had for $5CAN

pH with a side order of shitty fresh air exchange..an oscillating fan in the room, and just when the lights are on is certainly not enough... youll need to add intake and outtake for the room as well as leave that oscillating fan ON when the lights are OUT....


in nature, does the wind shut off at night time?

edit:

examine the roots, and perform surgery/X-plant if neccesary
..you may have some soil compaction going on from dumping water in hastily....
Soil compaction/suffocation of the roots can be avoided IN THE FUTURE, by using a watering can, and lightly watering the entirety of the soil's surface area completely and evenly, broken into 2 deliveries 20 minutes or so apart, fertigate first, then wash down with water to ensure even saturation of the root-zone, MAKING SURE NOT TO OVERWATER....compensate for the 'flush' by decreasing the volume of water u are using initially, do not over water or you will have the same problems you are seeing now....if yer still unsure on the process, just water in 1 delivery...

if not compaction or dead root mass turning the can anaerobic, it may be root rot of some nature, or just the pH thats causin the claw..they DO NOT look overferted..you are experiencing the beginings of lockout of at least a few secondary elements...pH is DEFINITELY off, get that kit:smile:5 Canadian Dollars, and will do 10 tests...best bet is buy 3 or 4 at a time or just splurge the $10-$100CAN. for a waterproof digital pH meter on ebay (best prices/selection on earth when talking meters)

sorry for the lengthy post
...............pretty high....
be well

 

[Guest]

Thanks Capitano,

I will check the Ph tommorow with a test kit, but as far as venting is concerned it is adequate, I use 2500m3/h extraction fan 24h on, the oscilatig fan is just a bonus.
Thanks for your effort, I apprecciate it!

 

[LEGI0N]

I agree 110% that you should get on top of your PH. You can have the bext food in the world but if your PH is off your plant wont be able to get to it. I hear a top dressing of bat guano and eathworm castings works great.

If you have the resourses you can get an enzyme product that will help eat up and 'clean' up any root problems you might have.

I think that when you get you PH down you'll see a huge change in the plants.

Remember, in soil organics you're feeding the soil then the soil feeds the plant.

 

[Guest]

BEAUTIFUL POST, LEGION --

BEAUTIFUL POST, LEGION --

ya nailed just about everythin my stoned-butt left out .......

h2O2 helps too -- never use straight, always dilute at LEAST 50/50.
for your purposes (if you did indeed find nasties in the root zone), a root surgery/trim + 50/50 h2o2/water heavy root mist or quickbath, then XPlant to larger can with a more aerated soil and moisten medium to field consistancy with a dilution of 1 part Hydrogen Peroxide 3% U.S.P. to 10 parts pure water--R/O,steam distilled,heck even tap will due, in a pinch and cant hurt..chlorine/flouride et al have little-to-no noticable effect on cannabis, IME.....your mileage may vary
good luck

hehehe LEGION: cap-o be wayyy too poor to be buyin enzyme productsnot to mention the fact that it's virtually impossible to find these things here in AK.......i'd have to mail-order or go to anchorage as there may be a hydro. shop there, not sure...if anybody knows of anywhere by us, please, by all means, let me know!!

 

[Guest]

o, and yes, the hydrogen peroxide treatment is to be used INSTEAD of the enzymes....that is, if you do not have access to such products.... ENZYMES WOULD BE THE VERY BEST........but if not, it's a great technique to treat root-rot and/or breakdown decomposing root matter...

 

[m.steelers]

Yep, the first one screams of ph and the last one is yelling lockout - ph related nute lockout.

get the meter, flush with ph 6.3 water and then feed 1/2 strength. Next watering do another 1/2 strength, by then they should come around. Dont get alarmed, they may get worse before they recover, depending on how fast acting your ferts are... organics can be slower so it may take some time.

Also, are the second and last pictures the same plants?

Good luck~
M

 

[Guest]

Well, gues what, it is a Ph problem!!!
When I finally checked the Ph of the tap water it turned out that it has a Ph of 8 (yes, eight), so considering that, the plants are not doing too bad (the ones on the pictures are the worst cases).
So, I went and made myself a big barell of Ph 6,5 water with 1/4 strenght fertilizer and flushed them, but not before transplanting into bigger pots and checking the roots, which were all still perectly whit, so I did not mess with them.

M. steelers, yes, the pictures 2 and 3 are of the same plant.
Capitano, legion and steelers, thanks for your imput and help, I shall post some picts when I see improvement!

 

[MynameStitch]

ph is a problem here but how much ferts are you using with how much water?

if your using soil, water has no impact on the final ph of the soil

after you water thats what ph it will be always

adjusting water ph will not do a thing and not fix the problem
its the soil ph you need to fix
which is why when you water you get your ph level it is with your water

 

[bilgeweed]

Stich- intersting comment. Are you saying that if you have a low Ph value in soil
(say 6.0) and flush with H20 of 7.0 and continue to water with 7.0 the PH of the soil
will not change ? It's only the added nutes in the mix that will change the soil's ph ?

Not ot thread jack- for it does apply--
I'm in a situation that I think I have low soil PH. Rapidtest meter says 6.7 but
the vile/chemical test says 6.0. When I water the soil is so lose that much of the
water runs thru very quickly so when I read the runoff it's always that of the water
being used and does not show a low ph. Plants are in the largest containers
possible for the space, so I will not be transplanting. Will not have the opportunity
to mix in any lime. Lime also takes forever to react. How does one raise the soils PH quickly ? or lower ph quickly?

best regards
bilgeweed ?

 

[minds_I]

ya nailed just about everythin my stoned-butt left out .......

h2O2 helps too -- never use straight, always dilute at LEAST 50/50.......

At 3% h2o2 soultion in a 50/50 mix with water would be fatal to the plants, and the microkiddies int he soil-it will sterlize at that strenght.

A tbsp/gallon is good.
IMO.

If I am in error-then show me different.

minds_I

 

[MynameStitch]

Stich- intersting comment. Are you saying that if you have a low Ph value in soil
(say 6.0) and flush with H20 of 7.0 and continue to water with 7.0 the PH of the soil
will not change ? It's only the added nutes in the mix that will change the soil's ph ?

what im saying this this
if you have a soil ph value of say 6 liek you stated

you water with ph water 8 .0 or higher or less it doesnt matter its only going to change the soil ph for about a few hours and then the soil ph will go back to where it normally was

that why im getting very onfused when people balance out the ph of the water

water ph if your growing in hydro fine you need to balance it out
but water is only 50% of your ph value the rest is the soil ph thats your other 50% ph

towards the end before i got busted i was doing "tests" on this weather or not ph balancing out your water really made a difference

i came to the conclusion that even if you balanced out your ph with nutes the problem still occured with mine

with mine i had new soil cause i couldnt find my other kind of soil

the kind of soil i used was 50% mg 50% sta green

sta green had peat moss in it and i didnt know about this

so i was balancing out my ph from the water and still wasnt fixing it

i had to ph balance the soil in order to fix the problem

so even if you ph balance out your water if your soil ph is where its supossed to be its not going to make a difference

so in the end the water is mixed with the soil ph is only going tomake little change over the ph when its watered if its not ph balanced after a few hours the ph goes back to where it was before


try it out and see

go ahead and make sure your soil is balanced where its supossed to be and water with whatever ph water as long as you dont saturate it day after day.... but what would you do that for anyways.....

after the water starts to dry up in the soil when the plant starts to absorb it the ph will start to go back to the ph like it was before reguardless of the water ph

but if you have a water ph of over 9 then you have some problems around 9 or 10 cause thats hard water and then that could be caused by your nutrients having difficult time being mixed in with the water but if you dont have a ph over that you dont have to balance it out

if your using ph water under 5.0 then you need to balance it out but its rare for someone o use perfect 5.0 water


Not ot thread jack- for it does apply--
I'm in a situation that I think I have low soil PH. Rapidtest meter says 6.7 but
the vile/chemical test says 6.0. When I water the soil is so lose that much of the
water runs thru very quickly so when I read the runoff it's always that of the water
being used and does not show a low ph. Plants are in the largest containers
possible for the space, so I will not be transplanting. Will not have the opportunity
to mix in any lime. Lime also takes forever to react. How does one raise the soils PH quickly ? or lower ph quickly?

you dont want the lime to take charge right away that can cause some kind of ph shock to the plant

trust the vile before the rapitest meter those things are so junk its not even funny such a waste of material

you can add lime just mix it to the top part sprinkle it around the base of the pots keeping it away from the stem

lime takes a while for the full effect to take place for it to start working it takes a few days

hydrated lime works quickly but doesnt last as long as dolomite lime does

lime doesnt need to be mixed in for it to work right
but it works better if it is.....

 

[bilgeweed]

Thanks a bunch Stitch- make perfect sence to me.

I see why there are so many questions and problems regarding the ph of soil.
It's a difficult thing to measure unlike in a hydro setup. Even with the vile/chem
routine there are soo many variables and interpertaions of color ect.

What's your take on reading the runoff ? (see my first post please) With as lose as we
make our soil by adding vermiculite ect the water runs thru the plant too fast
to pick the soils true ph- in my case anyway.

Ever use one of these ? http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?mi=3050
Never mind- I found this- not a very steller report
http://ipcm.wisc.edu/wcm/pdfs/2004/PetersJune2.pdf

So for grins, I took a vile/chem reading again (6.1) and then added a couple pinches of lime to the vile. I was surprised it did not raise the ph ? why ?

Again-
Best Regards
Bilgeweed

 

[MynameStitch]

because in order to acheice a fast rate of ph change you need to add more of it than just a pinch

i add 1 cupof dolomite lime per cu feet of soil and for something that needs to change within a few days depending on the severeity i add some to the top soil and put new soil over it so when ya water it will help stabalize the ph because of the lime

are you growing soiless medium or soil? i cant remember.......

 

[bilgeweed]

Thanks for the come back Stitch - I should have clarified. I put BIG pinch of lime directly into the vile/chem mix that read about 6.1. I would have though I
would see some change in such a small solution. The mix is close to "Vic's" (all but the trace elm.) been using it for a few years. Never had so much trouble
growing a weed.


I woke to a couple of very unhappy girls this morning. Two 1/2 days after a small
flush, very thorough watering, all the tops/new growth is wilting,curling, cupping.
Pulled the root ball and it looks ok- no black,slimy or smells.

I may have to post tomorrow if they don't look better.-----------

Regards
bilgeweed

 

[MynameStitch]

they will droop after a heavy watering but if they are still drooping a day later you overwatered them meaning you flushed to well

 

[Guest]

Oh yes, the old Dolomite trik!!

Oh yes, the old Dolomite trik!!

Me, I'm a rockhound and I agree that the calcium carbonate can do wonders. As does mica, the brown one is the one used in pro-mix. Ever wonder why they don't use biotite mica (black) or muscovite (silvery). Anywho when plantin' time come we all head to dolomite mine in Portage-du-Fort and load up. That stuff is like el necessary. I've seen white rock for sale in nurseries and believe it or not they want 15 bucks CAN a bag.

 

[Guest]

OFF TOPIC

OFF TOPIC

Me, I'm a rockhound and I agree that the calcium carbonate can do wonders. As does mica, the brown one is the one used in pro-mix. Ever wonder why they don't use biotite mica (black) or muscovite (silvery). Anywho when plantin' time come we all head to dolomite mine in Portage-du-Fort and load up. That stuff is like el necessary. I've seen white rock for sale in nurseries and believe it or not they want 15 bucks CAN a bag.

the 'brown mica' you describe, seen in promix and other prebagged mixes is called vermiculite.
www.vermiculite.org

 

[Guest]

By now I'm sure they are in shock. IMO (ProMix guy) those look like overwatered plants, which leads to all that other crapola.

For what it's worth, I don't water until they tell me to with drooping fan leaves, some even like to yellow and discard bottom fan leaves as the roots dry and recover, but I usually water when I see drooping and that seems to work before losing leaves....

When you troubleshoot a problem, only one thing at a time or yer spinning in circles, and can cause more and worse problems than the original. In this case I would have tested the soil PH with a sample (not run-off) first, then the run-off. Most mixes fluctuate when water is added but pull back to the soil PH. For example, ProMix (canadian peat moss) settles on neutral (7.0). The only way to get the soil PH to reset to a level I want is a month of waterings with the PH I'm shooting for, eventually the soil adjusts to it if it doesn't have a lot of lime and crap in it.

Also noted that comment on peroxide (3%) - if you water with a diluted mix yer gonna sterilize the soil and rootzone I think. It will kill all the micro bennificials you worked so hard to build up. I'd think twice before using it and only as a last resort.

FYI, I've come to believe that a soil PH range of 6.5-7.5 works well with most strains - I've seen friends with 8.0 during flower and the plants still do well in that stage. I think stitch had a PH range chart somewhere? Wasn't the lockout range of most nute absorbtion 5.8-7.8?

Dam the stoner memory. Who stole my lighter?

 

[Guest]

i did.
but it was on accidenthere's it back, 1tokesta

The only way to get the soil PH to reset to a level I want is a month of waterings with the PH I'm shooting for, eventually the soil adjusts to it if it doesn't have a lot of lime and crap in it.

how strange...
i was ponderin on this literally moments before readin this, bro

it seems to me that the soil is only stable for the amount of time the lime is active....
this could mean the roots either eat up the the soil by that time (or the pH buffer)
and/or that the root mass is preventing the fertilizer you add from meeting the lime..
reckon a transplant every month would alleviate this...another good reason to bust up yer rootball a bit on xplants....ah ha!

~

about the peroxide you're right on, but, would u not consider this a last resort situation?
at time such as these air is more important than resistance imvho

~

on the pH chart you'll want to check I.M. Boggled's homepage
as stitch's guide is nice, but, hard to follow the pH windows for lockouts ..etc etc etc

check em out, IMB's House of Cannabis--2 nifty charts man..
dunno where exactly but search his posts or his page
and youll find em.... contains info on every primary and secondary nute cannabis uses
(for the most part)...these charts are invaluable i hope ya find em with ease

be well 1toke, and, i still havent forgotten........
am i in the freezer still?

talk 2 ya soon

cJ