2.5x1.8 meter coco scrog, 3 strain bingo!!

[Tokesome]

Hey Gaius, thanks man, I`m pretty certain that these are`nt fungas Gnats, I`ve dealt with them before, and with these bugs being so widespread throughout the pots, I`d be seeing more than just the one stage by now. There are no fliers, not a single one and no larvae maggots any where. I also believe that the gnat bugs would be a tad longer than 1mm.

I`m not panicking on this one, but finding it surprising that I`m struggling to identify them or find out whether the Root Aphid is a pest to be concerned about at all in the UK.

Scaremongers tho, I seem top be able tyo find plenty of those

Cheers, Toke

 

[Tokesome]

Hey Gaius, thanks man, I`m pretty certain that these are`nt fungas Gnats, I`ve dealt with them before, and with these bugs being so widespread throughout the pots, I`d be seeing more than just the one stage by now. There are no fliers, not a single one and no larvae maggots any where. I also believe that the gnat bugs would be a tad longer than 1mm.

I`m not panicking on this one, but finding it surprising that I`m struggling to identify them or find out whether the Root Aphid is a pest to be concerned about at all in the UK.

Scaremongers tho, I seem to be able to find plenty of those

Cheers, Toke

 

[gaiusmarius]

i have a really reliable whole seller who i've been using for about 15 years, when i buy stuff off him i know i am safe, he is aware of the potential problems with growing. the tanks i've gotten off him are black food grade. but i've also used the see through containers from the local supermarket. in the end there is a code which tells you which plastic is the one you want to avoid. i know years back i had a mate who did out a ware house and put in a plastic floor before he started. in the end it took him 3 runs of dead plants till hi figured out the floor was reacting with the hps lamps and killing his plants in 2 to 3 weeks no matter how healthy the clones were going in. but once he ripped out the floor the problems cleared up, it took a visiting canna rep from Holland to point him in the right direction.

yeah i have no other ideas for the coco bugs. the plants do look like they will finish with no problems, so maybe just chuck the coco and start again next run. if drying the stuff out doesn't kill them that is.

 

[Scrogerman]

Shit Man, Sorry i didnt mean to piss you off bro(im the only person to mention these in this thread so sorry), i was just trying to point out what if anything the bloody things could be, so you can address the problem, if there is one, im pretty sure the advice youve recieved about the bene mites is more than likely what they are, judging by the size n all. You know they aint Fungus Gnats, as youve had experience with those, ive had those twice ever with minimal damage, they are much easier to identify anyway. The size of these things & the location is the giveaway for ID imo.
as for the Plastic that the Bins & Builders buckets are made of, well, my buddy whome i mentioned did actually reaserch the very plastic involved & said it wasnt good & quite possibly could release toxins that aint good for plants. the oily substance i was refering to is quite hard to see & we could only see it in a light reflection off the surface of the solutions, it was definately there if you looked hard enough, That was the Builders Buckets doing that, i just took my buddys advice & dashed them, with him being a bit of a scientist it wasnt hard for me to listen to him, he knows his shit bro. Ill have to ask him exactly what he was talking about, may shed some light on any issues with those. anyway sorry if i got you down on the Rootaphids thing, its just you cant be too carefull like i said, anyway if it was those i think you would of seen a bit more damage to your ladies & that aint the case.
Yeah the plastics i was on about is the clear Food Grade, like the kind sandwich tupperware tubs are made of, storage tubs their touted as, for kids toys etc. you see them in all hardware stores & supermarkets etc, they come Clear or Coloured & im quite sure it is food grade stuff, its exactly the same as the sandwich(buttybox) plastic stuff.

Just to put your mind at rest, if im not mistaken RootAphids are a darker colour, yellow, brown or darker anyway. your things are 'SnowWhite', I doubt very much it RA's man! I just consider everything myself.
I admit ive never seen them in the skin, seen plenty of Pics though.

Greenlight?

 

[Tokesome]

Hey, Giaus, thanks buddy, what is this code that you refer to in the above? That could be handy, like a BS kite mark? Too be honest mate if these are the beneficial mites that gobble up fungas gnat larvae, I`d rather they stay where they are, I just need a certain ID on them before deciding what to do. If they were Root Aphids, getting rid of the coco would be essential but probably wouldn`t get rid of the problem, from what I`ve been reading, scary stuff!! I`m just wondering how likely it is that I get a welcome visitor, not really my stylie as a rule.

Hey hey hey Scrogger, you wouldn`t piss me off with anything you say bro. I`d forgotten who`d mentioned them but I was referring to another thread I put up about them. I was a bit frustrated and being a bit tetchy too mate.

I cant find any evidence for root Aphids even being in the UK, and I`ve asked about but get no response to it. Maybe I`ll open a thread just on that question.

I got a mate with good vision to look at them and I got a jeweler`s loop too, but its not strong enough. My mate reckons they look like some sort of mite and confirmed there are no other signs of life in the room other than the plants. I think all is cool, The plants are almost there and are looking great health wise.

Cheers, Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

Oh Ok No-probs then, glad it wernt aimed at me, after thinking about it, yeah all the cases ive read about were in like California or the States anyway, & ive found out there are a few different speices of these little critters, Rice root aphids to name one, seems there are different ones for different plants. Also from what ive read, your things are smaller than RA's anyway. I know you wont rest until you got a positive ID, i know how much of a headfk it all is too. My moneys now on the bene Mites, lets hope so ah! Cheers!

 

[Tokesome]

Oh Ok No-probs then, glad it wernt aimed at me, after thinking about it, yeah all the cases ive read about were in like California or the States anyway, & ive found out there are a few different speices of these little critters, Rice root aphids to name one, seems there are different ones for different plants. Also from what ive read, your things are smaller than RA's anyway. I know you wont rest until you got a positive ID, i know how much of a headfk it all is too. My moneys now on the bene Mites, lets hope so ah! Cheers!

Yeah, they dont look like problem bugs to me, 1mm at the most. Hard to see with a little jeweler`s loop I got today. I managed to get one into a glass file twice, put one on a mate`s microscope but had to sqaush it a bit to get the damn thing to stay still. The other is still in the file with a finger end of coco, but its easy for the lil thing to hide from my loop.

The one we put on a slide I caught by flooding the pot and plunging a small glass file into the water where I could see a mite, easy done. The other my mate caught on the end of his finger along with some coco.

As I said its difficult to get a good look at it amongst the tiny bit of coco, but I`ve managed a good look a couple of times. Could really do with a more powerful loop, and tmro I`ll catch a couple more in water which should make it easier to see them,

They look and fit the description of Hyoaspis mite in every way except these are pure white in appearance and the above mentioned are light tan in colour. Being 1mm or less eradicates the root aphid as does I think, living in the uk.

The plants definitely dont seem to mind them being around, and if they`re cool with it, so am I.

The jeweler`s loop was very handy for looking close up at some buds, and the name "Jeweler`s" loop was apt, as in close up it looks like my plants have their buds coated and encrusted with millions of beautifully swollen gems. Its amazing, every bit of bud is totally dripping.

Cheer`s, Toke

 

[~Shhh~]

hiya toke,

sounds like the buds are still doing well although your having a few issues fella. good thing that you seem to be getting to the bottom of them, so hopefully it'll be back to smooth sailing for you soon mate.

those lil critters as you say don't seem to be causing any noticeably bad effects or ill health to the plants but would also be interested to find out what they are...

looking through a jewelers loop is always slightly mystical experience (when looking a@ bud anyways) the world of the tiny is very interesting and the trichomes look quite amazing.

maybe the 20 years of troubles you seem to have avoided have all come at once mate... with any luck once your passed this lil hiccup it'll be another 20 years of fairly calm seas

peace bro!

 

[Tokesome]

hiya toke,

sounds like the buds are still doing well although your having a few issues fella. good thing that you seem to be getting to the bottom of them, so hopefully it'll be back to smooth sailing for you soon mate.

those lil critters as you say don't seem to be causing any noticeably bad effects or ill health to the plants but would also be interested to find out what they are...

looking through a jewelers loop is always slightly mystical experience (when looking a@ bud anyways) the world of the tiny is very interesting and the trichomes look quite amazing.

maybe the 20 years of troubles you seem to have avoided have all come at once mate... with any luck once your passed this lil hiccup it'll be another 20 years of fairly calm seas

peace bro!

Hey mate, I wouldn`t say I`d avoided problems in 20 yrs, but they all usually seemed easily worked out, understood and remedied. Off gassing with so many items made from possible suspect plastics, has not only been difficult to establish that that is going on, but then the job of trying to erradicate all suspect items and replace them with food grade plastics is not and easy endeavor.

Hopefully it will be truly solved this next time around and then with the environment qualities I have in my room it should kick out the best I can possibly achieve for my set up and space. . . . . theoretically speaking of course!

Cheers, Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

Heay Toke,
Whats happening to the pics, any new ones mate?
I wonder if Canna use these 'Hypoasis Mite'(however you say it) as a biological control, its definately coming in(the mite), inside the Canna Coco isnt it? It would make sense as a biological control but surely Canna would mention it on their packeging, Hmmm...
Anyway your Bud's looking devine for sure mate & i bet its gonna be fantastic, its soo bloody frosty, im sure its gonna be a cracker this one, youve got to know the cut too & thats always a help.

 

[Tokesome]

Heay Toke,
Whats happening to the pics, any new ones mate?
I wonder if Canna use these 'Hypoasis Mite'(however you say it) as a biological control, its definately coming in(the mite), inside the Canna Coco isnt it? It would make sense as a biological control but surely Canna would mention it on their packeging, Hmmm...
Anyway your Bud's looking devine for sure mate & i bet its gonna be fantastic, its soo bloody frosty, im sure its gonna be a cracker this one, youve got to know the cut too & thats always a help.

Yeah I`m sure that Canna would mention the mites if they were adding them, I suspect they crawled in, they dont get tired of doing that, or came in the air, or on clothes etc. The Hypoasis mites are supposed to be tan coloured tho, not white. They are a little off white to be fair when viewed in the class files. I have 3 under observation at the mo. but going to try a stronger loop tmro so I can see them more clearly. They dont appear to have the spike for a mouth like the Hypoasis mite, but should see better with more magnification. I`m going to check it out on some bug testing site that Shhh put me on to.

Hey talking of cuts mate look at these little wonders. The GF cuts have all rooted and are potted up, and the vegging process is coming together with new leaves, the ones with no resin on, hehe.

I`ll take some more pics this week mate, This is one I snapped of the end of the Grapefruit row at lights off today. I wish all 3 rows were Grapefruit, I`d be back on course again then for sure as the Arma`s wont be that good yield wise, although hopefully a bit better than the last run with it being cooler. Fook are they frosty nugs though!!

Cheers, Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

You got a nice Temp to RH thing going on for this stage in the Bloom room man! Are you using a Dehumidifier bro? i need to get one, i like to use one in the last 3-4 weeks just for that extra protection, & they work bloody good, Im using Silicon as a protective addy too, + i have the added benefit of the strain being highly mold resistant too, which is always a welcome bonus imo. I like that Silicon reduces Transpiration too, the less water being released through those buds the better in the said stage imo.
I'd luv to run 'Air-Con' but do those things spin the meter off the scale so ive droppped that idea, stick with the De-huey. Your Looking Fine bro, G'Luck ;?) cant wait to see you ID these crawlies!
I suppose you dont suffer with any sort of RH prob with the room being the size it is n all!

like the serration-less leaves too, is that a GF trait, funny looking mutation that one!

 

[Tokesome]

Nah mate, RH not a problem, except in the heat of summer when its a bit on the low side. I do have a good de-huey, but I haven`t had to use it for ages now. If it got wet out doors for a week or so, I`d probaby have to employ it.

Yeah thinking about it, I used to use Silicon, doesn`t it help in cellular structuring too. I may want to add that to my res.

I think the Molasses being fed every 2-3days half hour before a feed for the past 2-3 weeks has helped nicely.

Mmm. . . been too busy playing poker to check the Bug ID yet, but I`ll get on it tmro when I hope to buy a stronger mag loop.

Hope all going good for you mate, I`m gonna be making some more of those mind taking cookies before too long.

Cheers, Toke

 

[Scrogerman]

Yeah, My Mates running Silicon with Coco now & his ladies are flying i believe, last i saw they were looking mustard. looks like runnin the Mollasses has done the job & is it me or am i seeing more trichs than last time, Awesome job.
Im weighing up the BudCandy for my Carb booster on this run, not sure how it'll react with the rest of my programme but if i got the cash in a week or two ill grab a bit, it aint cheap but i aint running the mollasses as i know it'll just break down n make a mess, BC it is. Gonna Run PK13/14 but i have been gifted some Hammerhead 0-4-8 to try, may try it early on in the phase, first sign of flowers up to the PK dose at week 5 or 6 depending. Not sure yet & aint made up my mind. Yeah my ScrOG is flying, tbh a bit too fast, mate this ones nuts & im struggling to keep up the strain moves soo fast, im a little apprehensive about the stretch & ill try everything i can to keep it to a minmum. Im not sure i can bend out the last 10% of the Screen to make it full, the pla nts are a little brittle in places & i struggled when i let tops grow over 4", think i snapped 3 when i let the canopy get to 6", whoops! my own fault. really vigours strain this one anyway, so far im chuffed, hoping for a cheese fest, something milder & a little less smelly but still with plenty of kick is what im after & judging how things are going & smelling im in for a treat, if they stretch gets out of control i may suffer, but im positive, should be fine, just cant belive my screens full in a week, thats the 4 plants for you. Happy dayz bruv! ;?)

Cooookkkkiiiieeeessssss, OMG mmmm, ill be making some cannabutta myself this time, bloody wicked shit!

 

[Tokesome]

Ah, I`m on a break in my poker tourney

I agree mate, its not worth putting Molasses in a recirc system, fookin` messy, I hand feed mine before a feed and, as you know, I`m running drain to waste.

Yeah I reckon the trich build up is heavier than last time bro, its smelling beautifully too, glad I got lots of filtered extraction!

 

[~Shhh~]

IMHO molasses works real well have just had a mate add the panela to his grow, he already used molasses and his buds are super frosty!

His Sour Diesel x SSH is ridiculous with it, there is a thick carpet of THC and the actual THC heads are massive man! He concurs that the combo has worked a treat at getting the buds to frost up... He also used some Plagron Green sensation I gave him and that hardens the buds up nicely.

Scoger the bud candy is pretty nice and also makes the buds frost up well but I must say it makes them alot more fruity which for some strains would be great but on stuff like Cheese I wan't the skunky end of the spectrum to be dominant in the taste dept and it seemed the BC treated plants had more of a sweet palate to them.

I'm using the following on my next run-

Bcuzz bloom stimulator - same stuff as in their bloombastic without the clay or PK sources.... essentially molasses & kelp (sugar and amino acids, micro nutes n other goodies) as the main constituents from the research I have done. It doesn't make any gunk appear in the rez and is used from week 2 bloom to flush @ 0.5 - 1.5ml per L

Green sensation aka Top booster by Plagron - PK additive with some other goodies - amino acids etc. Nice booster that is guaranteed to make your buds solid. Used from week 4 - flush @ 0.5 - 1ml pr L

I'm trying out Bcuzz soil stimulator this next too don't know much about it in terms of feedback seems not many people use it but it sounds pretty good... I got it as I never use any additives in veg and now I am back to using compost for a bit I thought I'd attempt to speed veg up somewhat! It has aqua bacteria?! whatever the fook that is and more amino acids n' protein + micro nutes. Got it on the strength of the Bloom stimulator I used last run which produced nice THC results on the non BC or molasses/ panela treated plants. Was also my best yield thus far in any medium so I thought I better stick to the regime adding 1 additional product and also switching from rootgrow to AN pirhana for the fungi - Trchoderma and Mychroizal (sp??) This stuff is alo available for coco and hydro used @ 1ml per L from day 1 veg - 2nd week bloom... If it's worth the bother I let you know!

Sorry mate, I've gone down the rabbit hole with that post! A lil of topic n all, just you guys were debating the merits of molasses and seeing as I had the same q's before giving sugar additives in general a go I thought I'd weigh in a lil.

Silcone works very nicely in coco IME, I used it religiously...

Re those critters I haven't had a good enough look or done any research into what they maybe, but do u think the store u buy from may have sprinkled some form of predatory mite/insect over their supply of coco/compost in an attempt to annihilate the gnats that most growshops seem to pass onto us unwitting growers! Probably way of the mark but just a thought...

Geeeeezzz! I forgot after waffling on so much to say that the garden is looking nice mate, very frosty indeed... When I have clones that still have thc on em I usually roll my rizla's up n down the leaves before skinning up, waste not want not lol

peace

 

[Tokesome]

When I have clones that still have thc on em I usually roll my rizla's up n down the leaves before skinning up, waste not want not lol

peace

Heh heh heh, I`ll try that just for a laugh mate, I still have a bag of assorted scissor and ice hash, oh and some BHO. I like to keep some around in case I run out of bud.

Great post mate, nice summary on the carb sups, I`m going to stick to the Molasses myself, nature`s bounty `n all that, as it doesn`t cause me gunk problems the way its applied to my plants. I only used it since week4 or 5, whereas I may add it from earlier in lower doses next time around, what`s your take on the best time to start applying it, and how to you decide the dosage of molasses or panella?

Can there be anything in Panella that isn`t in Blackstrap molasses? I thought it was similar, but not quite as high in the terms of the goodies we give to out plants, Blackstrap being the most beneficial to the plants? Am I missing something there mate?

Cheers, Toke

 

[~Shhh~]

My mate feeds it from they're planted up, I use it when they're just going into bloom, but have since started from the get go to. Panela supposedly has Riboflavin which is also good for plants, but I am yet to see it listed on any packs I have bought in any case I use teaspoon per US gallon of molasses, mixed into 1L of warm water and then dumped into some feed... With the panela I just keep adding it in 1L of warm water until the EC meter stops reading as it does with the mix molasses in 1L. When it does that I just dump that into... Not very scientific I know, lol... Maybe this double dose of carbs from panela & molasses mixed is is where it's @ as apposed to any unlisted riboflavin, as u suggest their sucrose content is very comparable, with the molasses having more micro nutes IIRC, but if it's not broke don't fix it until I confirm the panela's supposed Riboflavin content...

As soon as a clone is potted up as the sugars mainly give the trichoderma (in the case of coco) or both tricho & VAM if using AN's Piranha a good feed. These fungi rely on the plant to exude sucrose (sugar) via it root tips to feed off. I guess the way folk figure it is if you are supplying this sugar in abundance then the fungi (beneficial) should be able to colonize the root area quickly and without the need to rely upon the plant for sucrose.

The larger these colonies of fungi are in the rhizosphere the better it is for your plants...
I'm not an Advanced nutes junkie but their 'advancepedia' has some great info about their products what they contain and what they do... the ingredients can be found in many other nute manufacturers products but they are the only ones to go into great detail and site peer reviewed material to explain what these products do. So I tend to go there as a base point of study in many of these additives.

Trichoderma as added to Canna's coco will colonize the rhizosphere. They encourage the roots to grow by tricking the plant into thinking they are part of its root system after penetrating the roots cell wall. They infected sites are then 'over stimulated' into producing more roots - via cell wall growth. They will also compete with any pathogenic micro organisms for nutes preventing them from colonizing the area they inhabit (essentially all of the coco/compost).

The whole process seems like it's just a lot of plant shit getting eaten by the fungi and then fungi shit getting taking in by the plant then we smoke it, ewwww lol!

I'm at it again, keep opening cans of worms!!

Here's a couple good pages on Trichoderma & VAM and how they interact with the plant for sucrose so I don't turn the thread into a science class. I'm still learning here myself mate and it can all come spewin out sometimes hope u don't mind

http://www.plantphysiol.org/cgi/content/full/151/2/792

http://www.advancednutrients.com/hydroponics/advancepedia/cloning-rooting-germination/piranha.php

(scroll to near the bottom of advanced nutes page).

 

[Scrogerman]

Great Info Shhh, Marvelous & i'll be reading those thread links youve put up, i need to further educate myself on carbs/sugars & Aminio's vits etc etc, thought i knew all i needed but i dont think we ever learn enough, theres always something new.
Hey man im jelious as Fk that your running the Strawberry Chiesel man, WoW & double WoW, the pics that Docleaf put up of her a good while back now were amazing for sure, some of the best looking bud ive seen tbh, pure 'Eye Candy' & in your hands im sure it'll be bomb. They've stopped making seed for that line too, it's a gonner, what a 'shame'!!, i soo bloody wanted to run her man, Good Luck with her & your other projects & thanks again for the Info. Cheers!!!

 

[~Shhh~]

Glad it's of use to you guys...

Here's the AN breakdown of Carboload which is akin to molasses goes into a good amount of detail on how plants will also benefit from the extra sugar for ATP production amongst other things.

http://www.advancednutrients.com/hydroponics/advancepedia/bloom-enhancers/carboload-liquid.php

Have a good day lads!