1st grow - help diagnosing burn

[kovenant]

let me give as much detail as possible- let me know if i miss something that may be important.

this is week 5 in veg (got a slow veg start in rockwool - next time wont be using rockwool.) im growing in recirculating DWC @ 5.5-5.8pH for 5 weeks. plants have been healthy and growing well. transplanted to the buckets last week (1 week vegging in buckets now) and had to add a water chiller to the system. water chiller has created +7 degrees in room. temps before were 75-85F, now they are 82-92F... today im venting the chiller and prepping to add an AC.

im using mostly AN nutes. Sensi Grow A + B, Sensi Cal Mg, Liquid Karma, Multi-zyme, Root Excellerator... and just bought AN Barricade & Folic Acid but have not used them yet. before transplant these ladies were in rockwool cubes in an ebb & flow tray, getting watered once a day, or every other day - as needed. they were @ 750ppm before transplanting to buckets. in buckets i remixed a new solution to 880 ppm (lets say 50 gal system... 40 tsp of Sensi A, 40 tsp Sensi B, 40 tsp Sensi Cal, 40 tsp Liquid Karma, 3 fl oz Multi-zyme, 2 fl oz Root Excel.)

the 600W lamps around 12" from the canopy. using MH veg bulbs until i switch to flower - which will be anywhere between tomorrow and a week from now. as i stated, heat in the room gets as high as 92F - which i know is hot - and for the majority of the light cycle it is 88-91F.

looked last night and roots are finally showing out of the bottom of the netpots - im stoked about that, and frustrated i didnt know i should pre-veg/veg differently... but know for next time. this is why i may veg for 1 more week... which would be a total of 6 weeks veg! i want to develop a better root system before i throw into flower.

so, they looked fine with no signs of burn until they went into buckets... ive noticed a couple of signs. most of these symptoms are noticeable on a plant - but usually each plant only shows 1 of the following signs, save maybe one or two plants that exhibit more than one: burn spots, very dark burns along the outside edges of the leaves, light yellow-tan burns on the inside of the leaves - from where the stem begins the leaf, and some yellow lower-fan leaves.

here are some pics:



you can see a burn around the rim of the leaves:


and then there are 2 that are pretty beat up, like this one:


the dark burn around the edges was more prominant a few days ago - here as a picture of that problem... and it seems to have started greening back out because i dont see it anywhere as bad:


any ideas or suggestions? thnx a ton! i will be re-plumbing my water chiller, and so, draining the system. thinking of running fresh pH'ed RO water only (no nutes) for a day or two - to flush. may just go to flower nutes after, or veg 1 more week. any suggestions on that? im assuming a flush will help with any nute burn or nute lock-out.

 

[Blackvelvet]

i remixed a new solution to 880 ppm (lets say 50 gal system... 40 tsp of Sensi A, 40 tsp Sensi B, 40 tsp Sensi Cal, 40 tsp Liquid Karma, 3 fl oz Multi-zyme, 2 fl oz Root Excel.)

Looks like potassium deficiency from too much cal mag. Increase the sensi grow a and b and decrease sensi cal mag.

 

[kovenant]

i drain the system today to do a quick re-plumb. as stated, im deciding whether or not to go into flower now, or wait an additional week. under the circumstances (ie, 5 weeks of veg so far, the potential potassium deficiency, and getting my room AC'ed and sealed in...) do you think i should just flush for a day or two and go into flower - with flower nutes - or should i give another few days to a week with a good blend of veg nutes before switching to flower?

thanks for the quick reply Blackvelvet!

 

[kovenant]

well, wasnt sure how to proceed - so did what felt right (and time.)

went into flower. flushed system last night and ran pH'ed RO water for a few hours - then added this nute solution:


Connoisseur A = 48 tsp
Connoisseur B = 48 tsp
Barricade = 1 tsp (10 mL)
Piranha = 5 tsp
Folic Acid = 24 tsp
Multi-zyme = 2 fl oz

solution = 720ppm

should be plenty of potasium in there. they look fine this morning - a bit hard to tell but they seem a bit healthier and livelier, and dont notice any new burning (i cut the yellows and dried leaves.) hope they arent in a nute-lock. if so, what should i do?

 

[DirtDoctor]

well, you did what you needed to do - so give it some time and observe the results.

When using Barricade, do you dissolve it in warm water before adding it to the rez? It's thick stuff, and very alkaline, so pre-mixing it makes it easier to stabilize the pH of your nute solution.

 

[kovenant]

DirtDoctor -> i did not dissolve the barricade in warm water, ill try that next time. and you aint lying - it is super thick. both the barricade and the folvic acid caused mad pH jumps, but easily remedied.

as for the ladies. hard to tell - but i think we're getting better. definately not worse. i can see green returning to a very yellowed leaf - always a welcome sign. here are 2 pics from 4:30am this morning... beginning of day 3 with the new flower nute solution

 

[kovenant]

still getting yellow leaves that either fall off on their own or fall off by touch. wondering if its not a nute lock or if its just carry-over from the initial burn. if it was a potasium deficiency to begin with - would leaves drying and falling off still carry over after supplying proper potasium levels? or should that clear up within a few days?

the plants seem healthier since the new nute batch was mixed 3 days ago... but some of those lower leaves are just yellowing and dropping. and i dont want to let more time pass if i didnt address the real problem.

in 3 days i must leave on a trip for 4 days... and i want to make sure i have this issue under control - as im sure you can imagine.

also - any thoughts on using molasses in hydro?

 

[Blackvelvet]

Potassium deficient leaves don't recover. What is the % of the elements in your ferts? Example: 5% calcium and numbers like 10-10-10 List these for both parts a and b seperately. How much of a and b are you using per gallon?

 

[kovenant]

Black Velvet -> i will have to take a look during light-cycle and when im @ home. I can say that both A & B were both under 10-10-10 each... i believe potassium in A was 3.5 and maybe 7 in the B (so total of 10'ish)

i've been pHing at 5.6 but my ppms havent dropped from 720 in 4 days. nute lock-out? or would ppm not drop for some reason?

another question - when i added fulvic acid and barricade i had huge flux in pH... dropped ALOT (went from 5.6ish to low 4s.) i added pH Up immediately and stablized back at 5.6pH. my question is... could the pH level changing so drastically negatively affect the plants and perhaps cause a nute-lock... even with rebalancing it almost immediately? i believe in the future i should probably mix these in a seperate bucket with some RO water and pH it before mixing it into the controller??

thnx!

 

[Blackvelvet]

I don't have any numbers for your labels. List the % of each element or 10-10-10 number or whatever for both a and then b. Do each seperately. If you provide this I can give you a general idea on how much to use and also if you might need cal mag or not.

 

[kovenant]

had some developments - you can read whats been going on from the link in my signature, my 1st grow.

sorry havent gotten back to you on the ratios:

here are the links that show the most information i can gain from their site - they really dont show the ratio or even the individual nute labels.

Veg: Sensi Grow A&B

Sensi Cal Grow

Flower: Connoisseur A&B

Additives:

Barricade

Pirahna

F1- Fulvic Acid


i dont have the Sensi Cal Bloom - wasnt planning on using it. and i dont have H2 - Humic Acid (wonder if i should be using F1 without H2... ??)

anyway - as listed on my grow, i just did a res rinse and added 'light' portions of both sensi grow a&b (half) and connoisseur a&b (half). i added half sensi cal grow, barricade, pirahna, and f-1. also added Multi-zyme and Root Excellerator in quarter to half rec's. ppms were 610 when all was said and done.. pH'ed at 5.6 but im leaving for 3 days and know it will raise about .1 pH per day... so thinking i will come back to 6.0pH or so.

come by my grow for more details - and thanks for all the help and advice!

 

[Blackvelvet]

Without numbers on the label, I cant give you a rate. My only suggestion would be to stop using sensi cal all together unless you get an actual calcium or magnesium problem.

 

[inflorescence]

i believe potassium in A was 3.5 and maybe 7 in the B (so total of 10'ish)

You mean 5 'ish? (3.5 + 7) = 5
............................2

 

[421oops]

seen any black gnats? just asking. they can cause tons of probs.

you get heat down? 85 is high imo...i like the 70s

 

[kovenant]

nflorescence -> not sure where you get 5... (?) 3.5 + 7 = 10.5.

7 - 3.5 = 4.5 (5ish)


421oops -> my heats steady at 83F. have been told by TW (trainwreck) growers that low 80s is best for them. anyone here have a different experience?


so i left on my trip - gone 4 days - got alot of new growth (3-5" of top growth) but still getting burn.

i mixed 1/2 veg nutes (sensi grow a & b) and 1/2 flower nutes (connoisseur a & b) before i left to 610ppm @ 5.6pH

got reports while i was gone and pH was raising - worst point got to 6.8 which wasnt all that bad, but ive been keeping it in the mid-high 5s (as also has been directed to me by TW growers, except for one who was reported good results - in hydro - in the low to mid 6s.) my girl used pH down every other night to bring it back to 5.6'ish. the burns are only on the lower leaves (so far) and the new top growth is very green and healthy looking.

here are pics of the new burns:





Blackvelvet ->

i wont be adding Cal Mg unless i notice a deficiency with it.