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1G/1W still the ganjaman numbers?
- Thread starter spacejes
- Start date
250wscrogger
Active member
He got 1.3 GPW...
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=185081&page=10
That's the most efficient grow I've ever seen...I doubt anyone is pulling more than 1.5gpw...Heath robinson claims 2gpw but I kinda have a hard time believing that...
I've been growing for 4 years...I still haven't hit GPW yet, hoping that changes with my new vertical room though...the closest I've come so far was 19oz under a 600w with 16 plants (0.88 GPW)
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=185081&page=10
That's the most efficient grow I've ever seen...I doubt anyone is pulling more than 1.5gpw...Heath robinson claims 2gpw but I kinda have a hard time believing that...
I've been growing for 4 years...I still haven't hit GPW yet, hoping that changes with my new vertical room though...the closest I've come so far was 19oz under a 600w with 16 plants (0.88 GPW)
E
emerald city
What you guys never mention is TIME.,
I look at the equasion a bit differant..In a certain amount of space[4x4] in a 28 day cycle,how much quality weight can be produced....I use the lunar cycle instead of monthly to achieve 13 harvests instead of 12.....So under those conditions what will produce more,1-4 large plants under a 1000 watt or 25-99 under that same 1000hps,in that same period of time..28d to clone/upward growth-28 days veg-28d start flower cycle-28d finish cycle[adjust shedual according to breed.]
I look at the equasion a bit differant..In a certain amount of space[4x4] in a 28 day cycle,how much quality weight can be produced....I use the lunar cycle instead of monthly to achieve 13 harvests instead of 12.....So under those conditions what will produce more,1-4 large plants under a 1000 watt or 25-99 under that same 1000hps,in that same period of time..28d to clone/upward growth-28 days veg-28d start flower cycle-28d finish cycle[adjust shedual according to breed.]
GPW doesn't mean much IMHO, Gram/Watt/Day is the real way to calculate it.
A poster named pH had a website discussing this and had a calculator to this automatically.
I remember Lucas (yes the guy who is resposible for the formula who is a member here) saying that pH was a friend or maybe mentor.
It makes sense really because if growing a sativa over 90 days you can't compare it with a 60 day indica.
This system says more about the room efficienty also.
Say 360 grow days a year, the 60 day variety get 6 cycles a year, the 90 day strain only pumps out 4.
Both may have hit 1GPW but over the course of a year the 60 days crop will have beaten anual production of the first by 33% (2 divided by 6).
Now pH also factors in room size or watts per square foot, I am not sure how that factors in calculation wise but i makes sense.
I use a 400W in a 4 square foot room, technically it is good for up to 16 square feet, there is no way the 2 situations compare.
Also when you factor things in like the fact that letting buds rippen beyond their prime to gain extra weight it can sway things further, who is the better grower?
The one who got the weight or the one who produced a better quality product?
Food for though.
A poster named pH had a website discussing this and had a calculator to this automatically.
I remember Lucas (yes the guy who is resposible for the formula who is a member here) saying that pH was a friend or maybe mentor.
It makes sense really because if growing a sativa over 90 days you can't compare it with a 60 day indica.
This system says more about the room efficienty also.
Say 360 grow days a year, the 60 day variety get 6 cycles a year, the 90 day strain only pumps out 4.
Both may have hit 1GPW but over the course of a year the 60 days crop will have beaten anual production of the first by 33% (2 divided by 6).
Now pH also factors in room size or watts per square foot, I am not sure how that factors in calculation wise but i makes sense.
I use a 400W in a 4 square foot room, technically it is good for up to 16 square feet, there is no way the 2 situations compare.
Also when you factor things in like the fact that letting buds rippen beyond their prime to gain extra weight it can sway things further, who is the better grower?
The one who got the weight or the one who produced a better quality product?
Food for though.
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You have any other info I can use to search for that calculator site? Doesn't Lucas have his own site as well?
250wscrogger
Active member
that's a good point...
gram/watt/day is the true way to measure it
For example: 1 gram per watt x2000w /56 days = 0.01785 gram/watt/day
1 gram per watt x2000w /70 days = 0.01428 gram/watt/day
the less time it takes, the more efficient.
I think room size is completlely irrelevant... this isn't a measure of grams per sq ft it's grams per watt of electricity.
gram/watt/day is the true way to measure it
For example: 1 gram per watt x2000w /56 days = 0.01785 gram/watt/day
1 gram per watt x2000w /70 days = 0.01428 gram/watt/day
the less time it takes, the more efficient.
I think room size is completlely irrelevant... this isn't a measure of grams per sq ft it's grams per watt of electricity.
junior_grower
Active member
my last harvest was 1.89 gpw on a 7 week grow. Im not sure how people are calculating G/W/D. I had 2000watts, CO2, in a vertical room dialed in to run based on amny grows in the same room strain was good but not great.
E
emerald city
the square foot of the area gives you a variable to measure lite intensity.so many lumens per square foot.... Gots to quantify
junior_grower
Active member
but Sqft of canopy must then be calculated. Every grow I have set up uses less than 50sq/ft of floor space, the highest yeilding takes up a total of 32 sq/ft
Heath Robinson was actually pulling closer to 2.5 on some of his grows. Vertical is a whole new ballgame. We see that growing vertically Quadruples the sq footage a light can cover. So if you can grow a half oz per plant, 14 grams ( which im sure just about everyone on this board has done) then look at this way.
A sog with 25 plants on a 36 by 36 inch table in one gallon buckets at 14 grams per plant is 12.5 oz. ( Again I think a lot of us have tried a 25 bucket SOG.)
So 600 watts = 12.5 oz <---------- Thats what every average grower with a 600 watt is pulling. I think we all know this through experience.
Now lets take what heath does he multiply's whats there ( the light) x 4 tables sideways! 4 x (12.5 - (average 0.58 gpw)) = 50oz 50 x 28 = 1400 / 28 = 2.3 gpw
Now on top of that he is a very clever man, has a green thumb and he seems to be pretty knowlegable about Dissolved Oxygen and how it affects growth.
I have been watching Heath for years on different forums. He has, from what I have seen, atleast over 50+ grows that used to all be documented. Regardless those sites are gone and there is no way to bring back all those journals. But I can say there was never any reason to lie about what he got, it was pretty obvious from the pictures of rooms with hanging buds or the piles of dried bud.
Also he loved a challenge when someone said it was impossible, he doubled what they said and proved it was possible.
Spacejes I think 1/2 Gram per 100000000 watt is still considered a grower. I think 1gpw is just considered talented.
All in all, spreading your talent and utilizing your tools makes you a master of your trade.
Good luck and and good job on 400g per 400 Watt.
Heres a similar link to NBG's 450g grams from a 400watt.
250wscrogger
Active member
With vertical you need to factor in distance from the bulbs...my vert stadiums will be 64sqft rooms but the plants will only be taking up 48sqft.
6 1'x8' shelves...16 sqft of dead zone to keep plants at the optimal 2ft from the bulbs...40 watts per sqft of canopy
To pull 0.88 gpw with 16 plants under a horizontal 600w I used a 4x4 footprint...
3x3 per 600w will rarely be 1lb+ per
4x4 per 1000w will rarely be 2lbs+ per
too many watts per sqft may be good for quality, not so much for efficiency...gotta balance it out... too few watts per sqft and quality will go down...
my rule of thumb is around 40w per sqft...
6 1'x8' shelves...16 sqft of dead zone to keep plants at the optimal 2ft from the bulbs...40 watts per sqft of canopy
To pull 0.88 gpw with 16 plants under a horizontal 600w I used a 4x4 footprint...
3x3 per 600w will rarely be 1lb+ per
4x4 per 1000w will rarely be 2lbs+ per
too many watts per sqft may be good for quality, not so much for efficiency...gotta balance it out... too few watts per sqft and quality will go down...
my rule of thumb is around 40w per sqft...
What about number of plants? That is something that factors in for a number of medicinal growers. In addition to room size, electricity used, length of flowering, length of veg, all of these factors are important. I think the gpw statistics are only useful for comparing your own runs of the same strain in the same room. Once you compare two different rooms /growers it becomes pretty useless.
Pompey_Monkey
Member
Is the idea to see who can get the most weed from a particular set-up or how efficient the set-up is?
I prefer the latter metric. After all, I'm the person paying the electricity bill! Plus everyones grow can be reduced to this measure.
g/W/day is unnecessarily confusing the unit analysis. What about g/kW/hr? - same metric, standardised units.
Plus the power used for fams/pumps/heating should be factored in too.
Example:
2 x 600W hps draw a total of about 1300W and might be on 12 hrs a day for 60 days = 936 kW/hrs.
2 fans drawing about 100W between them on 24 hrs a day for 60 days = 144 kW/hrs.
1 heater drawing 450W on about 8 hrs a day for 60 days = 216 kW/hrs
Add 'em up and the total energy use is 1296 kW/hrs.
Say the total yield is 700g (25 onces, typical for this kind of set-up) then the efficiency is 700g/1296kW/hrs = 0.54g/kW/hr
This method of comparison is valid, repeatable and reliable. Gains or losses from the baseline are indicators of grower skill (which includes anything the gardener does to improve efficiency. i.e. strain selection, number of plants, training methods, feeding etc).
The one thing that this does not measure is quality of the final product, but that is, aside from chemical analysis, usually subjective.
Once this baseline is adopted, then rigorous scientific studies may be made by altering one variable at a time and measuring the changes. You can bet your bottom dollar (for that is what counts) that any corporation looking to grow any indoor crop will boil the numbers down this way. Although they will probably use the quantity of extracted THC/TBD as their yield figure rather than dried bud weight. All they are doing here, of course, is eliminating another variable!
I prefer the latter metric. After all, I'm the person paying the electricity bill! Plus everyones grow can be reduced to this measure.
g/W/day is unnecessarily confusing the unit analysis. What about g/kW/hr? - same metric, standardised units.
Plus the power used for fams/pumps/heating should be factored in too.
Example:
2 x 600W hps draw a total of about 1300W and might be on 12 hrs a day for 60 days = 936 kW/hrs.
2 fans drawing about 100W between them on 24 hrs a day for 60 days = 144 kW/hrs.
1 heater drawing 450W on about 8 hrs a day for 60 days = 216 kW/hrs
Add 'em up and the total energy use is 1296 kW/hrs.
Say the total yield is 700g (25 onces, typical for this kind of set-up) then the efficiency is 700g/1296kW/hrs = 0.54g/kW/hr
This method of comparison is valid, repeatable and reliable. Gains or losses from the baseline are indicators of grower skill (which includes anything the gardener does to improve efficiency. i.e. strain selection, number of plants, training methods, feeding etc).
The one thing that this does not measure is quality of the final product, but that is, aside from chemical analysis, usually subjective.
Once this baseline is adopted, then rigorous scientific studies may be made by altering one variable at a time and measuring the changes. You can bet your bottom dollar (for that is what counts) that any corporation looking to grow any indoor crop will boil the numbers down this way. Although they will probably use the quantity of extracted THC/TBD as their yield figure rather than dried bud weight. All they are doing here, of course, is eliminating another variable!
That´s just so cool, gotta light one for this.
................ 
This is the only real far-away goal I´ve ever had, been growin in 7 years. Low W all the time, never had too much cash to spend on set-up.
(250w)
On this last harvest I got 265g dried,trimmed and cured with one lamp MH during veg and HPS from bloom, both fresh. I did it L.S.T style(tie tie tie...) and in coco all canna nuts. A,B, PK-13-14 and wet betty(allover stimulant i guess). I got most of the wheight on my S.L.H, gone to amber(good stuff there) 150g. On the rest 50, 40 and one freak L.S.D(barneys) that gave me 25 sweet ones
.
No keeper, i´ll tell you.
You might guess that it took some time for the SLH to get ready, damn right buddy. Never been a day/week counter, sorry.
Vegged for bout 2 weeks, but did´nt show signs on any flowers til a about 1st month.
Space
Dust
Lord, Lord...
Thanks, interesting posts
................ This is the only real far-away goal I´ve ever had, been growin in 7 years. Low W all the time, never had too much cash to spend on set-up.
(250w)
On this last harvest I got 265g dried,trimmed and cured with one lamp MH during veg and HPS from bloom, both fresh. I did it L.S.T style(tie tie tie...) and in coco all canna nuts. A,B, PK-13-14 and wet betty(allover stimulant i guess). I got most of the wheight on my S.L.H, gone to amber(good stuff there) 150g. On the rest 50, 40 and one freak L.S.D(barneys) that gave me 25 sweet ones
.No keeper, i´ll tell you.
You might guess that it took some time for the SLH to get ready, damn right buddy. Never been a day/week counter, sorry.
Vegged for bout 2 weeks, but did´nt show signs on any flowers til a about 1st month.
Space
DustLord, Lord...
Thanks, interesting posts
PM your line of reasoning sounds right, total energy used is a much better quantifier than watts.
I love math even if I suck at correlating the equations lol.
After some thought incorporating space (sqft) might not be necessary because most growers aim for between 40-50watts/sqft which is a constant that could be removed from the equation.
Then again if space is not an issue you can satellite some plants past the ideal footprint for a given light, one member was growing with 25watt/sqft and claiming .75gpw...
Someone mentioned the amount of plants which I think is irrelevant seing 1 plant can be scrogged in the same space as 4 or more, however I always feel that having more stems to the soil by SOG instead of SCROG, for bigger spaces with lights over 400W, will result in greater yield.
Vertical growers would have an definitive edge, say a 1000W bulb hung horizontal can/should cover about 5ft x5ft max, the result is 25sqft coverage.
The same bulb hung vertically could ROUGHLY be equated to the formula for the outside area of a cylinder minus the top and bottom thus:
2 x pi x radius x height = outside area
2 x 3.1416 x 2ft (min distance from bulb to tops) x 6 ft (this is a guess ) = approx. 75.4sqft vs. 25 sqft for a horizontal grow.
This totally fucks up the incorporation of square footage in our earlier equations because you are not using more wattage but simply making more efficient use of the bulbs output.
Pot Growing Mathematics 420 would be a class I would fail once just to take it twice.
I love math even if I suck at correlating the equations lol.
After some thought incorporating space (sqft) might not be necessary because most growers aim for between 40-50watts/sqft which is a constant that could be removed from the equation.
Then again if space is not an issue you can satellite some plants past the ideal footprint for a given light, one member was growing with 25watt/sqft and claiming .75gpw...
Someone mentioned the amount of plants which I think is irrelevant seing 1 plant can be scrogged in the same space as 4 or more, however I always feel that having more stems to the soil by SOG instead of SCROG, for bigger spaces with lights over 400W, will result in greater yield.
Vertical growers would have an definitive edge, say a 1000W bulb hung horizontal can/should cover about 5ft x5ft max, the result is 25sqft coverage.
The same bulb hung vertically could ROUGHLY be equated to the formula for the outside area of a cylinder minus the top and bottom thus:
2 x pi x radius x height = outside area
2 x 3.1416 x 2ft (min distance from bulb to tops) x 6 ft (this is a guess ) = approx. 75.4sqft vs. 25 sqft for a horizontal grow.
This totally fucks up the incorporation of square footage in our earlier equations because you are not using more wattage but simply making more efficient use of the bulbs output.
Pot Growing Mathematics 420 would be a class I would fail once just to take it twice.
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idk, im a big fan of G/sqr ft.....because no mater how much light you have you are always limited by space....G/w is an indication of how efficient you are with your lighting and electricity.
put it this way, if i have a 10x10 room and use 2kw and fill the room wall to wall with plants. i might get 4-5 lbs....
but if i have a 4x8 room and use 2kw and fill it from wall to wall, i might get 2-3 lbs.....
granted that the buds in the larger room may be not as nice or compact, but the overall yield will be much greater than the smaller room.
i think in the end you have to use both G/sqr ft and G/W to get the optimal efficiency level
put it this way, if i have a 10x10 room and use 2kw and fill the room wall to wall with plants. i might get 4-5 lbs....
but if i have a 4x8 room and use 2kw and fill it from wall to wall, i might get 2-3 lbs.....
granted that the buds in the larger room may be not as nice or compact, but the overall yield will be much greater than the smaller room.
i think in the end you have to use both G/sqr ft and G/W to get the optimal efficiency level
E
emerald city
I agree with the size therory.The more headroom and area in which to streach out and get a better air exchange etc......But
In most cases were all limited to a specific footprint[theres never enough space] in which to work....At some point all one can do to increase production is add more light,and yes that theory only works to the point of diminishing returns[when your paying for more then your make-in]..Ive tried many set-ups.If your doing the under 99 thing, For the flower cycle id use 3 -1000 over a 4x8 foot print,harvesting a 4x4 area every 28 days.With plants no taller then 3-4 'at harvest...Ive found this aproach to be the most productive on a consistate basis.....On the other hand ,aint nothing better then rocking a farm silo,multiple levels with no height restriction
but thats a story for another day.
