1900 sf warehouse most economical ?

[omenman]

hey there ladies and gents.... this is everyones dream...and maybe mine...soo read closly...

a buddy of mine is contemplating running a full blown commercial grow and i told him i may be interest in tagging along for the ride.... as for power.....power isn't a issue now...he will be paying for it however but you can use as much as you want ..the power that runs to the place is 110, 220... and 3 phase....

the place has 3 windows all are bared from the inside , an office...and 2 large roll-up loading doors from the back . wwith true 1900 sf open space...


the max power id say id that will be comfortable in using at this place is anywhere from 15k to 25k in power...

giving that....with 15k for start up.for now with another 10k in a month....and i can buy 1000 watt light setups wholesale at 200 bucks a pop...would it be best to say run 20 lights in a huge grid and soil pots to start it off... or something different...i would plan on the 3 phase for the ac units and the dehumidifiers.....

Also just found out today...the place in on a well..so fresh water and as much of it as we need....ideally i would like to automate it as much as possible...would that be possible even with soil and drippers and run to waste..and say check on things once a week? i would be interfacing things with web enabled cams, temp, humity sensors and security devices...

Id done hydro..what large scale system could be used or bought... I thought about those multi-flows... does anyone have any experience with those..?

 

[yamaha_1fan]

Ok, I'll bite, I am a sucker for these type of threads.

First, set up a budget in excel. You need to calculate all your costs incuding carrying costs (rent, mortgage, electric, nutes, etc till you harvest). Calculate construction costs, costs for electrical, etc.

TRUST ME, this adds up.

15K wont go far

I would suggest building rooms. Just growing in a large open space doesnt seem right to me. Odor is one issue

Oh, does this place have tenants on both sides? Then you MUST build rooms IMO

Doesnt matter what you run off the 3 phase or if you run the 3 phase at all. But you can run the lights at 208,270, or 480 if you have it. Just be real careful, my BIL is an electrician and he told me getting zapped by 480 is a tad different than 120, the difference is that you probably wont be around to regret it.

Web cam? God I hope you dont plan on videoing the plants, then transmitting it online.

What kind of 1000W setups can you get for 200? Does that include a ballast, decent bulb and hood? You dont want to skimp on these items.


As far as system goes, theres alot of varying opinions on how to grow this large. Check out PJ's grow, hes rocking 10K


Your budget is going to dictate alot of things

 

[Mr. Tony]

I think yamaha is right with building rooms. Lumber/ sound proofing isn't cheap.


also if all those 1k set ups for 200 need to be shipped thats going to vastly increase the price.

I think your going to have to start off smaller than you planned to unless you can raise more capital.

 

[omenman]

Ok, I'll bite, I am a sucker for these type of threads.

First, set up a budget in excel. You need to calculate all your costs incuding carrying costs (rent, mortgage, electric, nutes, etc till you harvest). Calculate construction costs, costs for electrical, etc.

TRUST ME, this adds up.

15K wont go far

I would suggest building rooms. Just growing in a large open space doesnt seem right to me. Odor is one issue

Oh, does this place have tenants on both sides? Then you MUST build rooms IMO

Doesnt matter what you run off the 3 phase or if you run the 3 phase at all. But you can run the lights at 208,270, or 480 if you have it. Just be real careful, my BIL is an electrician and he told me getting zapped by 480 is a tad different than 120, the difference is that you probably wont be around to regret it.

Web cam? God I hope you dont plan on videoing the plants, then transmitting it online.

What kind of 1000W setups can you get for 200? Does that include a ballast, decent bulb and hood? You dont want to skimp on these items.


As far as system goes, theres alot of varying opinions on how to grow this large. Check out PJ's grow, hes rocking 10K


Your budget is going to dictate alot of things

yamaha...

hey thanks for the reply...I like the room idea... that way i could cut down on lights used and use a flip flop relay....put that in the middle of the rooms and bam...as for the lights...yea there 1000 watt hydrofarms with hoods and bulbs..i know someone that buys and sells them around here..if i buy 15 plus i can get a pretty steep discount... the only think i would be doing with the web is sensor alarms with temps and security stuff...no pics of plants...

my main question is the type of growing method....i want somthing that i can leave for 4 to 5 days

 

[Joe A. Grower]

In my opinion you're asking all the wrong questions. These sorts of threads seem to always start out asking growing questions, but growing is the easy part. Here's what you should be asking:

1. Can I actually turn this much pot into cash?

Assuming you have 20 lights and are a really mediocre grower, you are going to need to move a minimum of 100 pounds of weed over the next year. If you are any good you may need to move twice as much. There is no possibility you are going to deal this off by yourself an eighth or a quarter at a time. You need to have some major criminal contacts to move this much weight.

2. Do I have the labor I need for this project?

It is entirely possible that you could do all of the growing trimming and selling by yourself-- if you don't mind working 80 hours per week. It is more likely that you will need a partner or workers. Being ratted out by their criminal associates is the number one way that growers go down. I know a guy who dealt for a couple of decades and never got caught until he was dimed out by one of his trimmers. You need people you can trust with your life. Literally.

3. Do I have the capital to complete this project?

You not only need money for up front costs, like equipment and deposits, you also need carrying and contingency funds. Do you have enough money to pay rent, electricity, and employee costs until you move your first harvest? Do you have enough money to carry the operation if the first harvest or two are not successful?

4. Can I dispose of the money without attracting attention?

Depositing, investing, or even spending a quarter million dollars without attracting attention is no small feat. You can stick it under your mattress if you like, but eventually it has to come out. When it does come out, you need to have a way to hide it or explain it.

5. What will I do if the whole thing goes south?

So you got yourself a security camera monitoring your grow. Good idea. Now what are you going to do if the goon squad kicks in the door? Are you willing to walk out on everything in your life in order to avoid a long jail sentence? Are you willing to live your life on the lam, probably in a foreign country? Because if you get popped with a grow this big you are looking at either doing hard time or making a run for the border. Those are your options. Are you comfortable with those options? Because if you are not, then you need to get out of the game now.


Just thought I would stop by and rain on your parade a little. :wink:

 

[Pops]

Joe is absolutely right! You are asking the wrong questions. However, if you have to come on a pot forum and ask a bunch of stoners how to set up a million dollar criminal enterprise, you had better stick to flipping burgers, because you are a moron.

There have been dozens of threads here about guys with big dreams of becoming drug barons. They all start off asking how to set up a room and which strain to grow. If you don't know that already, you have no business trying this.

You should be able to do all the carpentry and wiring yourself. You need to know your strains and how they feed and yield. You need to have a ready market. You also need to have a place to run to when it goes south, which it will eventually.

BTW, you can rent a nice 2-3 bedroom house in a good neighborhood, with a 2 car garage and put a 10K grow in it, make $200K a year and safely grow for several years if you are smart and know what you are doing. Unfortunately, you have to have all the answers to Joes questions before you start. Like he says, growing is the easy part.

 

[mountain kind]

25K isn't enough to set up the size rooms and carry the grow you'd need to have to justify working in a 2000 sq ft warehouse.

 

[omenman]

In my opinion you're asking all the wrong questions. These sorts of threads seem to always start out asking growing questions, but growing is the easy part. Here's what you should be asking:

1. Can I actually turn this much pot into cash?

Assuming you have 20 lights and are a really mediocre grower, you are going to need to move a minimum of 100 pounds of weed over the next year. If you are any good you may need to move twice as much. There is no possibility you are going to deal this off by yourself an eighth or a quarter at a time. You need to have some major criminal contacts to move this much weight.

2. Do I have the labor I need for this project?

It is entirely possible that you could do all of the growing trimming and selling by yourself-- if you don't mind working 80 hours per week. It is more likely that you will need a partner or workers. Being ratted out by their criminal associates is the number one way that growers go down. I know a guy who dealt for a couple of decades and never got caught until he was dimed out by one of his trimmers. You need people you can trust with your life. Literally.

3. Do I have the capital to complete this project?

You not only need money for up front costs, like equipment and deposits, you also need carrying and contingency funds. Do you have enough money to pay rent, electricity, and employee costs until you move your first harvest? Do you have enough money to carry the operation if the first harvest or two are not successful?

4. Can I dispose of the money without attracting attention?

Depositing, investing, or even spending a quarter million dollars without attracting attention is no small feat. You can stick it under your mattress if you like, but eventually it has to come out. When it does come out, you need to have a way to hide it or explain it.

5. What will I do if the whole thing goes south?

So you got yourself a security camera monitoring your grow. Good idea. Now what are you going to do if the goon squad kicks in the door? Are you willing to walk out on everything in your life in order to avoid a long jail sentence? Are you willing to live your life on the lam, probably in a foreign country? Because if you get popped with a grow this big you are looking at either doing hard time or making a run for the border. Those are your options. Are you comfortable with those options? Because if you are not, then you need to get out of the game now.


Just thought I would stop by and rain on your parade a little. :wink:

very good insight.... i take that with a strait face and a firm handshake....as of the weight.. yes i can move it ...i will be working with no more then 1 to 2 people and they could move 3 to 10 p's a week at 5k a pop if they had it...soo weight isnt the problem...as of the labor i will be having one person im working with that i " trust my life" vise versa soo im good on that part" as to the capital...everything i have seems like it would work..however i wouldnt haven evenought if that first 1 or 2 runs goes south..if that happens..its buy buy dream and now im flipping burgers at the local mondo burgers...lol
g
as of where the money is going....the first 10k would go to a lawyer on a retainer of what if.. and the rest... best friend is in International banking and finance and he is already on board of the gravy train when need bee....

and the whole what if it all goes south.... as i see it ..im young enough to do some time ....where im at.... max jail time for under 50 lbs is 3 yrs...and under 10 lbs is up to 12 months....
soo thats another possibility... \\

to keep everything at under 10 lbs at a time...



i guess the main question is given the specs...I have done 200 plant soil stadiums, work with rock wool and Gi grows...the max plants i have ever worked with at a time is 340 plus plants...... With this grow...if i did this i would need something that is the most care free system out there...if i have to by auto nutrient injection systems thats fine... i want somtime that if i could...maybe this setup could be left for a week running on its own? is that possible?

 

[yamaha_1fan]

I see a chain and lock on this thread in the very near future. I suggest this thread focuses on the growing aspect and not the other stuff that ICMag frowns on. Read my signature, I am not against this topic, I just know ICMag is not the place to have these discussions in the open.


You can do it. I started a 9,000K op w/o much experience. Hell I never flowered or harvested a plant when I started. But I did have alot of learning mistakes. You already have some growing experience so you should be OK. And I do it all bymyself (besides trimming), and I dont work 80 hours a week. And I believe I have a tougher system with SOG. I have more rocks to clean, more clones to cut, monitor etc.


Did you do any reading or a search on the bigger ops? PimpJuice has his op setup with an Intellidose that does his nutes, and could do PH but he doesnt need it. His whole grow is built around minimal intervention and he checks on it every week or two I think.

I think most decent hydro systems could be left alone for a week or two. I could leave my flowering setup for several days w/o hesitation.

When you clone, you will probably want to pay more visits.



But I feel pretty confident from looking at MY spreadsheet, you budget is too small. You could get the warehouse, build the rooms and grow a small crop, then sink everything back into it, and expand. But you would be looking at no income for 6 months.

 

[ThisBuds4You]

The last thing that comes to mind when you say "1900 sq warehouse" is "economical", lol. Sounds fun though, good luck!
--
TB4U

 

[yamaha_1fan]

I cant seem to save my edit

I meant to say 9,000 or 9k but not 9,000k. That would be ALOT of lights

 

[Rosy Cheeks]

I would suggest building rooms.

If we stick the growroom building aspect only; yep.

Start with two flowerrooms, flip-flop. One veg room, and space for storage, all compartmentalized.

You don't have to run 15K's right from the start. Start small and work yourself up. Is the place safe? Landlords, inspectors, nosy neighbors, etc. Sometimes it takes a while to find out. I would not set up a massive grow unless I knew the place like the inside of my pocket.

 

[omenman]

If we stick the growroom building aspect only; yep.

Start with two flowerrooms, flip-flop. One veg room, and space for storage, all compartmentalized.

You don't have to run 15K's right from the start. Start small and work yourself up. Is the place safe? Landlords, inspectors, nosy neighbors, etc. Sometimes it takes a while to find out. I would not set up a massive grow unless I knew the place like the inside of my pocket.

very true...

this thread is now mainly the growing aspect..sorry to bring everything else in with it.....as for the rooms ...there going to be 2 very large size flowering rooms however in each room room to start small as everyone suggested... to feel things out...im willing to work at it but i want a system that would almost run by it self..except the needed times for cloning and trimming..

 

[thecarguy]

Definitely flip flop, definitely build rooms. My new favorite technique is framing 2x2s into the walls, ceiling, and floor. 4 ft between studs, put a 2 inch thick, 4x8 sheet of polystyrene insulation between each stud and caulk it in really well. I would lay it on the floor and cover it with ply or drywall or whatever. Lay diamond mylar or reflectix (any durable mylar product), because it will reflect light, act as a flame retardant for the polystyrene (which is flammable), and be a nice IR shield for FLIR. It's easy to clean.

Tack the 6 mil vapor barrier against the existing walls before you frame, and frame inside of it- the advantage of this method of building rooms is you don't have to drywall or fuck with fiberglass insulation. However, if there's no layer of drywall holding it up, if the vapor plastic is tacked to the inside of the room, water will condensate and make it sag. So it should be the outside layer. Frame the entire area that you'll cool with the AC as one big box, then build rooms inside of it, with one climate room that has your co2 gen, AC, dehu, carbon scrubber, etc. One veg/drying room and two flower rooms. Once you have framed the walls for the rooms, go to Home Depot and look for their spare rolls of vinyl floor. They'll have spare rolls that people have ordered and not picked up, that they will sell cheaply. I just lay it on the floor with about 6 inches up on each side to catch any water.

I would do 6kw in each flower room and 2400w-3kw veg. One 5-ton AC can cool all those lights, even if they are not in seperatly ducted, aircooled hoods. You will need to be able to wire this, frame this, plumb this and run the lineset for the AC. Read up.

For a smaller warehouse (almost undoubtedly surrounded by others, as Yamaha points out), I heavily recommend you consider coco coir because it's not nearly as noisy as hydro. It is also much more forgiving than soil when fed on automated drippers- coco is more flexible with water. You can't overwater your plants, but if your container is big enough or if you run beds (best option imo), it also takes very long for the plants to run out of moisture. That flexibility is what will keep an operation like this running.

Make sure your entry point is very secure and monitored by hidden camera. Install an alarm that alerts you via text message if somebody entered. Consider installing a ghetto shower setup, or wear a hazmat suit when you're working with the plants. My friend just had his cover blown because he smelt of fresh weed from working with his ladies.

Hire 4 guys that will take secrets to their grave if you pay them well enough, so you can get this place done in a couple weeks. And don't get your best friends, get guys that know how to do this shit and work hard.

Yamaha also gives sage advice in his suggestion to create a spreadsheet with EVERY cost you can think of. And then give yourself another 15-20%.

For something like this, I would budget 30k.

That said, don't let anybody here dissuade you. The more people doing this, the more liquid the market becomes, they more Americans produce domestically, the more you get off your ass and be productive, the more our gov't realizes that, no matter what, we get it how we live. Stay safe, peace.

 

[yamaha_1fan]

My only concern with framing with 2x2's is ceiling strength. If you have a large enough room, and you start hanging hoods, fans etc, you may have issues. Dont even think about a carbon filter

If you design a room, its not that hard to get an accurate cost to build. I did some estimating for a new op and the materials for the rooms was not nearly as much as I thought it would be

A 10x20 room for example is 60 linear feet, 10+10+20+20.

60 feet x 12 inches= 720 inches

A stud every 16 inches. 720/16 = 45

Or just multiply 60 x .75

So 45 studs at $2 each to frame a 10x20 room.

Of course you have your bottom plate and top plate. Thats 120 feet. You would need 10 2x4x10, maybe $3 each.

Then the ceiling. there you may want beefier, like 2x6 to support all those hoods, filters, ductwork, fans etc

You can easily calculate the whole framing cost like that.


Drywall, insulation can be calculated by square footage. Figure our 10x20 room is 10 feet high.

10x20 for the ceiling= 200 sq ft
2 walls 20x10 = 400 sq ft
2 walls 10x10 = 200 sq ft

so thats 800 sq ft

4x8 drywall is 32 sq ft

800/32 = 25. Drywall was 5.xx. lets say $6 depending on thickness. $150 to drywall the room



Someone tell me if my theory is right, cause I have a whole design based on all those figures.


But as you can see, if I am right, its only a few hundred bucks to frame, drywall, and insulate a 10x20 room. Insulation is a little more than drywall if I remember right. Surely worth the extra expense when designing an op like this

 

[thecarguy]

Yamaha-

With 2x2s it is necessary to have some studs in the middle of the room. I use these studs to hang fans on, suspend trellis nets, etc, as well so they're useful. My carbon filter just stand on the floor.



You are right on with your numbers. When I build conventional walls, I put the studs at 24 inches apart. You can buy packs of batts of 24 inch width insulation, precut to 8 ft. They run about 57 USD for 11 batts at my local Home Despot. 4x8x1/2 inch drywall is roughly 6 USD per sheet.

So for a 10x20, you need 36 2"x4"x81s for studs. You need 20 2"x4"x10' for bottom and top plates. I use a 1.50 USD hard tie bracket for each side of each joist.

40 x 1.50 + 36 x 2.10 + 20 x 2.63 + 15 (screws) = 205 + tax for your skeleton.

When using fiberglass insulation, I drywall both sides. 30 sheets for the walls, 14 for the ceiling. 44 x 6 = 264 + tax for drywall.

29 batts for the walls, 14 for the ceiling, = 53 batts, 5 packs, 5 x 57 = 285 for insulation.

Whatever you can find to cover the bottom plate, plus a piece of vinyl floor from HD (200) and a prehung door (120).

320 + 285 (insulation) + 265 (drywall) + 205 (lumber) + 60 (10x100ft 6 mil plastic vapor barrier). Comes to about 1200 for just the box. Then its the AC, plumbing, electrical, panda, you get the jig. But just building a box is pretty cheap.

Another advantage to building a box in an existing enclosure is you can build in a window AC instead of investing in a minisplit.

 

[Joe A. Grower]

very good insight.... i take that with a strait face and a firm handshake

Absolutely. I wouldn't come on here just to bust your balls. Too many guys around here act like the South Park underwear gnomes.

1. Acquire marijuana
2. ???
3. Get rich!

Problem is that #2 is the hard part. Going from 2K to 20K does not necessarily require better growing skills, but it does require you to become a much more sophisticated criminal. Seems like you've got that figured out, though.

The first thing that you might want to consider is what type of operation you plan to run. Are you going to run a highly mobile operation and just do a quick "hit and run" for one or two crops, or are you planning to build out the space with more permanent structures and stay for six months or more? If you are mobile you have the option of breaking down that grow if you get some heat. With a more built out grow your only option may be to just walk away and hope they can not connect you to the grow. Your security strategy will drive the design of your growing system.

Personally, I would rather stay mobile if I were growing in a commercial space. My experience with commercial is that you can count on at least one or two inspections per year by the fire marshal, and at least that many inspections by the landlord. Houses tend to be better for long term growing.

Figure out how you are going to get away with it first. Once you know that many of the growing system design decisions will be made for you.

 

[headiez247]

with 15k for start up.for now with another 10k in a month...

ya, good luck with that

 

[Joe A. Grower]

A few quick comments on what has been discussed:

My personal experience is that a grow can be built from scratch for somewhere between $350 and $1000 per 1000 W light. The $350 per light "ghetto grow" was soil in homemade pots with no-hood vertical lighting and panda plastic for walls. A proper hydroponic set up with trays, hydroton, pots, air-cooled hoods, A/C, framed walls, etc. is going to run closer to $1K per 1K.

Framing with 2X2's and Styrofoam is very economical but I would question how durable it would be. The grow room I'm working with right now uses standard 2x4 framing with fiberglass roll installation, but uses panda plastic in place of drywall. You need to use a lot of white duct tape to seal the plastic, but it is a hell of a lot easier than hanging drywall. Using vinyl flooring for a flood basin is not a bad idea, but it is a little bit overkill. I just use a blue tarp spread out over the floor and nailed into a 2 x 4 around the outside of the room. I think there is a picture in my gallery of this.

Running two separate flower rooms with ballasts on a flip-flop sounds like a good way to save a little money on equipment, but it may create some operational problems for you. If you are on a flip flop there is never a point in time when you can work on all of your plants. Half of your plants are always in the dark which means you will need to come back at a later time to work on them. Either that or you have to work on your plans during the flip time, and that makes you predictable. Consider also that if you are running a flip-flop set up and a ballast goes bad you now have two trays without light instead of one. If power draw is not an issue I would spend the money for the extra ballasts.

All of this assumes, of course, that you are planning to build out the warehouse and stay for a while. Again, I would urge you to think more along the lines of a mobile system.

 

[eyes]

where do i chime in on this thread...alot of good advice though.wont go into specifics of who,where how any of that.seen 1000 watts although way up to 15000 watts.there are so many variables its hard to start giving advice but i will anyway.a big op like that involves some serious up front $ thats for sure.The hardest thing is setting it all up only to break it down time and time again.if u do 15000 watts expect 7500 grams return.never ever count on 1 gram per watt till u have it all dialed in.strain,system,lighting ventilation.then count on .075 per watt.

anytime a show like this is set up of this magnitude,it usually involves more people then u plan for.as far as trusting someone,if they become your advisary in court(defendant against defandant) things change fast.Think about whos involved and what they stand to lose.Your family,house,car.a operation this big is no joke.Most likely fed charges will apply and then it gets serious.mandatory minimums.hard to get out of.85 percent of your time need to be served.frozen bank accounts/assets.got bail money?what about 20 k lawyer money?You need to think worst case senario.listen,when people are facing ten years,there opinions change mighty quick.ever do any time?

these are just some of the questions u need to ask yourself.how much money do i need to have if i get popped and how much time can i really do if i had to?willing to give up part of your life and live with total strangers?eat bad food?fight for showers?Listen to screaming and yelling all night?See,alot of people think they wont get caught,and some dont ,but what if your the unlucky one?These are the questions u need to ask yourself first.