1800w hydro grow. difficulty: 43" height

[tuna]

The title basically says it all. I have the perfect loft on which to hang 1x600watt MH for mother and clones, 2x600w HPs for flowering. The problem is that its only 43" tall from floor to ceiling.

So what can I do to make this space work for an HID hydro system? What are any ways that I can buy inches and maximize my yield for that height? Will it be a handicap?

I can have the reservoirs for the hydro systems on the floor below the loft if its necessary, but they might have to be much below, like ~7 feet below, so idk if there are pumps strong enough for that

 

[8bitNES]

Did you purchase your light systems already? In that kind of height restraint I'd probably opt for the 400w CMH bulbs. Haven't used them myself but from what people say, they sound like a indoor horticulture holy grail for lighting. Apparently they keep the stretch down while creating tighter/denser buds which would be right up your alley.

If you're only using 2x600w for flowering I would suspect that another one for vegging would be a bit much unless you plan to sell a lot of clones. Also with 43" to play with, I think 400w lights would serve you better CMH or not. Keeping things cool with that height using 600w bulbs can prove to be a pain too. What type of hydro? IMO, DWC would work best. There are pumps if you really want to do a E&F type system but for 7'+ of head those pumps are pretty damn expensive.

8bit

 

[tuna]

Would someone at least just tell me IF it can be done, even if they cant get into specific product recommendations?

-What are lower-height HID reflectors, and how many inches tall are they?
-What is the max distance I will have to have 600w lights away from plants during growth?
-When the plants grow taller and stronger, how many inches will the light fixture need to be from the top of the plants, and does that allow the plants to grow tall enough?

If I figure 12" total for the light fixture (from the ceiling to the bottom of it), and lets say the flood try is 6" tall, that leaves 25" total of space between the top of my hydroponic medium and the bottom of the light. Jorge Cervantes (in his book) seems to think that for 600w lights, you need 18" to 24" between the lights and the canopy.

So is it useless? He thinks that even 400w lights should be at least 12" from the canopy.

 

[tuna]

Did you purchase your light systems already? In that kind of height restraint I'd probably opt for the 400w CMH bulbs. Haven't used them myself but from what people say, they sound like a indoor horticulture holy grail for lighting. Apparently they keep the stretch down while creating tighter/denser buds which would be right up your alley.

If you're only using 2x600w for flowering I would suspect that another one for vegging would be a bit much unless you plan to sell a lot of clones. Also with 43" to play with, I think 400w lights would serve you better CMH or not. Keeping things cool with that height using 600w bulbs can prove to be a pain too. What type of hydro? IMO, DWC would work best. There are pumps if you really want to do a E&F type system but for 7'+ of head those pumps are pretty damn expensive.

8bit

Thanks a lot for the reply. I haven't bought anything yet, I'm trying to plan this out as meticulously as possible.

Do you know any sources of information on CMH lighting setups? I have read a lot online, and pretty much the entire Jorge Cervantes grow bible and I've never heard of them. Also, htgsupply.com, where I usually look to check prices and products for reference, doesn't carry them- do you have good cheap sites that do?

I would definitely consider a DWC system, but if anything, since I could put the water resevoir for an ebb and flow below this floor, I think it would have a higher height profile.

 

[Guest]

go vertical, best way to maximize your space

if you do it traditionally, the top 6 inches or so will be lost due to the cooltube+light and the bottom however many inches will be lost to your pots/res/etc.

 

[DazhyDro]

Yeah I would go with some cooltubes with an inline fan. If you could vent cold air through the cootubes you could get the light really close if it stays cool. Or vertical cooltubes would work really good for your short height.

 

[tuna]

Are there any good guides for setting up a grow system and vertical lights?

 

[8bitNES]

Hmm... in a space like yours (or what I imagine your space would be) I would line everything with mylar and hang 3 or 4 400w Ceramic Metal Halide bulbs about a foot from the ceiling with no reflector depending on the footprint of your grow space but keep their height adjustable. 3 bulbs in a more rectangular space, 4 in a more squarish one. Let the plants grow upwards--if they pass the bulb, it wouldn't matter because there would be no reflector blocking the light. Maybe use a reflector till the plants get to reflector height. Or even a vertical cooltube if heat becomes an issue. Since there isn't a lot of vertical space to play with your goal now is more to grow denser buds rather than taller plants. The only place I know to get CMH bulbs is through Simba's sig. They're REALLY full spectrum metal halides that go on HPS ballasts. Read the CMH thread, they're relatively new bulbs and not marketed to horticultural use but those guys say you can keep bulbs considerably closer to plants. When I set everything back up, there's no question that I'll be using these bulbs.

DWC because going up and downstairs even just for regular maintenance can be a pain. Imagine if you had to troubleshoot something. Go anywhere that sells storage tubs and find the best sized tub between 8-12" tall. This leaves space for 30" plants and put mylar on top of the tub. This not only reflects a little bit of light back up it also helps keep the tub a little cooler since its not absorbing as much energy from the lights. I went everywhere to look for the right tub, it'll take some traveling but well worth it because everywhere you go you'll end up finding other handy things to use.

All the how-to's are here in these forums. Its all about reSearch, reSearch, reSearch. You can ask questions all day but if people are thinking, "Dude, there's like 3 threads dedicated to that question on the first page" then you might not get the replies you seek. HTG is a good place for stuff but also check out the bigger online aquarium supply shops. Very high respects to Cervantes but when he wrote that book he didn't have same equipment, newer ingenuity and grow styles that is available today unless there's a very recent revision. 18" for a 600w lamp is the very farthest I would go, ~12" if active cooling was in play.

Oh yeah, get a comfortable small chair or a stool. Working hunchbacked is a bitch... unless you're a midget.
8bit

 

[Berry_Coughin']

Here's what I did with a 753fan and a 600 veddy close to the canopy....move enough air and you can do it.....

 

[tuna]

thanks for the replies guy. Berry, what kind of hydro do you have going on there, DWC? Do you have to do the PH and nutrients for each of those tubs seperately?

This is gonna sound like a real nube q but... whats a veddy? from the pictures and the description it kinda looks like your using a cooltube?

One thing I could do is use cooltubes and run a loop intaking air from outside, running it through the cooltubes, and then back out, and since its winter right now they would probably be ****ing cool to the touch, but that wouldnt help at all in the summer.

 

[tuna]

Wow I read through that CMH thread and it seems too good to be true. Better than MH or HPS for either stage of growing, while running cooler and thus being able to get closer to plants than other lights.

I'm really more comfortable using some kind of reflector hood than letting the bulb go naked, because thats kind of the fool-proof tried and true method of getting enough light on to the plants, I dont really trust myself to be able to figure out what exactly I would have to do to get a naked bulb to work well.

One question this raises for me, is do I use cooltubes (or other enclosed, ventilated reflectors)? On one side, It would further decrease temperature and let me put the lamp even closer to the plants, which could be important in my 43" growing space. On the other hand, the CMH bulbs are already enclosed, and every layer of glass just wastes more light.

@ Berry Caughin again: do you details as to how you constructed those tubs? DWC right? How do you get to the water when you need to adjust ph and nutrients? Do you have to manage each of those tubs seperately?

 

[Brain]

The super sun reflectors have tesed the highest and are quit small. Check the dimensions on their site but I think they are 7" high. I'd go with aircooled 400's. You can get them closer than 12" to the plants. You seem to be on the right path to figuring something out. Keep reading and planning. You could probably save alot of head room with a Scrog like berry coughin posted. 600's are to much for a scrog IMO. Good luck.