16kw bloom room development. Steel Building, or wood building?

[Zarezhu]

Hey guys,

So I'm running a sealed 4kw bloom room. I'm hoping to erect a new room alongside this room, and use my 4kw room as a veg room, to feed a 20x20 flower room (16 gavitas). This leaves about a 25sq foot canopy per gavita, and my 4kw room should be able to keep my cycles quick and efficient.

I have found financing, although it is somewhat limited. I'm trying to set this up within 2 months. I'm in california, and want to get as many harvests in as I can before big business makes what I'm doing almost impossible.

I will be speaking with my electrician this week. I need to upgrade the houses main panel, and run a 200a sub panel to the new room.

I'm not sure which route to go, building wise. Either way, we'll put in a 20x20 or 28x20 4" slab ourselves (save money). Our neighbor sells steel buildings for a living. He quoted me $6500 + $1000 labor to install a 21x20 steel building, no insulation. My pops quoted me $5200 material cost for a 20x28x10, already insulated building (we would be doing the labor, we have 2 weeks full time to giterdone). I don't know how to go about insulating a steel building, but it seems like a much more expensive option. Is it worth it? The only benefit I can see, is that we could tear down the steel building and take it with us when we leave the property. It seems much cheaper to go the wood route. It also seems that it would be much more efficient, insulation wise. But it would take more time (not necessarily a bad thing).


The current plan is 16 1kw gavitas, 2 4ton AC's, co2 supplementation, drieaz dehu, 100% coco DTW grow. Multifeed, 9-12 plants per light.

And off topic:
Right now, my electric bill is roughly $500 a month. With an extra 16kw in lights, I'd imagine it would be $2500 per month. It's a 2 acre property in a fairly redneck town. Will there be problems with the electric company? I'll never miss a payment, I'm just worried a 2500 electric bill may seem suspicious to an electric company.

 

[MJINC]

Just took a quick look at your specs and I think you need atleast another ton of AC. With Gavita's the recommend is alteast 4k BTU per 1000W Gavita so at 16 you're looking at about 64k BTU which equates to 5.33 tons

 

[Zarezhu]

Two, 4 ton acs. 8 tons total. Although I'm strongly considering installing 2 36kbtu DIY minisplits. It would be much cheaper, we could do the install ourselves. I'm just unsure that it would be enough cooling power.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that this shed would be in a field, in sacramento. It gets hot in the summer time, easily 90-100 degree months. I feel the metal would get ridiculously hot compared to a wood shed with siding (galvanized roof). And I'm fairly uncertain about insulating a steel building.

Any of you guys out there that have experience in this think they could point me in the right direction? Or let me pick your brain?

I'm trying to figure out which AC units to buy. I'm thinking the cheapo 13 SEER goodman units, but there's no heatpump, and I'm not sure that they can run in 25 or 30 degree winter temps.

An easier option would be to purchase two DIY 36kbtu heatpump mini splits, but I'm not sure that 6 tons would be enough to keep the room cool.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EJWV0P8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AXBP1250CRVZ6

It would, however, be the easiest and most affordable route

 

[Zarezhu]

Another question:

What would the optimum room dimensions be for 16 gavita/epap reflectors?

Alternatively, I'm considering buying the Phantom DE's (they use the e-pap style reflector, and are compatible with the gavita controllers). They're slightly cheaper, and the person that I talked to about them told me that they still get great penetration, with no hotspots. Essentially, they have a more even spread.

How should I size the room, to ensure I can fully and properly light it?

I've been planning it to be a 20x20 flower room. With a 4x6 spread from these reflectors, I'd essentially need 3 rows of 5 light. Would this be adequate for gavita/epap style reflectors?

15 lights would cut down on the costs a hair, and it would be easier to cool at that point. I'd have wall to wall coverage, minus a 2x20 section of the flower room.

 

[Can of Bliss]

So I can't speak from personal experience, but what climate you're in seems like a major factor in this choice.

Growing in a space you can power wash between crops sounds awesome to me, but a wood building can be set up for that.

 

[MJINC]

Two, 4 ton acs. 8 tons total. Although I'm strongly considering installing 2 36kbtu DIY minisplits. It would be much cheaper, we could do the install ourselves. I'm just unsure that it would be enough cooling power.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that this shed would be in a field, in sacramento. It gets hot in the summer time, easily 90-100 degree months. I feel the metal would get ridiculously hot compared to a wood shed with siding (galvanized roof). And I'm fairly uncertain about insulating a steel building.

Any of you guys out there that have experience in this think they could point me in the right direction? Or let me pick your brain?

I'm trying to figure out which AC units to buy. I'm thinking the cheapo 13 SEER goodman units, but there's no heatpump, and I'm not sure that they can run in 25 or 30 degree winter temps.

An easier option would be to purchase two DIY 36kbtu heatpump mini splits, but I'm not sure that 6 tons would be enough to keep the room cool.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01EJWV0P8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AXBP1250CRVZ6

It would, however, be the easiest and most affordable route

Sorry for the misunderstanding. The outdoor temps you're talking about with a metal building will mean a huge amount of cooling. You could mitigate some of that by running the lights during the night but that would be a real pain for the staff looking after everything. The 72k BTU I think would be a little short during certain parts of the year and I would go for the 2x4 ton units. better to hedge on the safe side IMO especially with the summer coming up

 

[Zarezhu]

There won't really be a "staff". Its mostly just me, but i could singlehandedly run a 16kw grow as long as I'll essentially make it an 8 hour a day job. Lights will likely run from 6pm to 6am, for lower tier electricity pricing, and cheaper cooling costs. Im currently running my 4kw solo, lights from 8pm to 8am, and its a little late, but manageable. I could work night shifts if I get my sleep schedule right, and am motivated (im extremely motivated, and need this bigger grow to keep me busy).

I do have 2 friends that I pay for an extra hand when its needed. Usually cleaning between the crops, large transplants/cloning, and trimming/deleafing stages.

I would love to be able to hose the room down, so concrete seems like a really nice option, although ive never worked with concrete and it may take a lot more time/learning to get the slab done right.

 

[Floridian]

I've got to hand it to you I can do a 3 1k grow,but it aint easy.When I'm taking cuts harvesting trimming and transplanting all at once,its a bitch for this old fuck.16 1K's I couldn't even imagine

 

[OldPhart]

Just a couple things that stick out to me.... Where do you plan on doing things like storing equipment/supplies? Where do you plan on working at? How do you plan on taking care of the plants, if you have a 2 foot gap down the center of a 20 foot room? Unless you're planning on hiring Peter Pan to tend to the plants that are 9 feet from a walk way, I think you have an issue. I would plan on 3 feet around the outside of the grow room, and a 4 foot isle down the middle for access to plants/equipment. One of the things that I have done to help keep the light on the plants and not the walkways, is to make mylar curtains that hang around the plants/lights/tables, from canopy level up 4 feet; that will help contain the light, but still allow access when needed.

Just a few things to think about.
OP

 

[Zarezhu]

I've been running a 4kw grow for maybe 6 cycles now, its extremely easy. I can often take a week or 2 off from gardening and relax. I have a huge reservoir, everythings properly irrigated and automated. Transplanting/ pruning/ harvesting are really the only periods that require a lot more work. I'm to a point were I'm trying to make everything simple and efficient.

Another huge deal, is monocropping. If you run one or two strains, everything is consistent and easy to handle. If you're running 10 strains, you're asking for copious amounts of stress and frustration. Impossible to dial in multiple strains at once. I'd be running 1-4 strains in the 16kw room. Makes everything smooth.

OldPhart- Right now my 4kw room has a utility room that I use for storage. I'm strongly leaning towards the wood build for my 16kw room. It would be 20x28. A 20x8 utility room, for reservoirs, nutrients, a mattress, and a 20x20 flower room.

And about the canopy. From what I've read about gavitas, you want to light the whole room. So the gavita footprint is a 4x6 footprint. There would be ~4x4 flood tables (possibly 4x8 tables) that would be spaced roughly 1' apart. This would leave space for me to walk between every table and tend to certains areas easily. I've also been considering making 4x8 tables and putting them on casters. I could roll them to the side when I'd need to work on certain tables.

 

[queequeg152]

once you insulate a steel building, its not going anywhere tbh. so i would not let that guide your decision making at all.

also a 4" slab? lol is this a post tensioned slab? what about grade beams?

a smallish steel building can go up in just a day if you have all the shit on site, a good crew and the right equipment. you can put up the cladding in like a day once its first layer of insulation is up.

steel is significantly harder to insulate properly however, you are not going to be buy batts from home depot or what ever... you are going to have to order blankets from some place, wrap over the purlins from the outside, then put up your roofing and cladding panels, then add more blankets or blown in cellulose form the inside.

a wood building would take 10x longer to put up, but insulating would be straight forward... just foam cladding over OSB, then tape seems, then furring and siding.... then batts on the inside. you dont need much in the way of equipment either since you are not lifting 200lb blanket rolls to the top of the building... you are just blowing in cellulose from below.

 

[OldPhart]

OldPhart- Right now my 4kw room has a utility room that I use for storage. I'm strongly leaning towards the wood build for my 16kw room. It would be 20x28. A 20x8 utility room, for reservoirs, nutrients, a mattress, and a 20x20 flower room.

I didn't understand that the building was going to be 8 foot wider than the room, I thought the whole building was going to be grow room.

And about the canopy. From what I've read about gavitas, you want to light the whole room. So the gavita footprint is a 4x6 footprint. There would be ~4x4 flood tables (possibly 4x8 tables) that would be spaced roughly 1' apart. This would leave space for me to walk between every table and tend to certains areas easily. I've also been considering making 4x8 tables and putting them on casters. I could roll them to the side when I'd need to work on certain tables.

So you aren't even planning on lowering the lights, just leaving them at the ceiling then? I've seen that done, but never messed with that. I've always had one light/table or tray; of course 4 lights is as big as I've ever gone. I still think you are pushing the amount of space if you have to get in there to do work if something unplanned happens; but I do like the trays/tables being on wheels. That would give you the chance to play tetris if needed.

OP

 

[linky]

I have a 5 ton goodman heat pump for my flower room, works great even in 15 degree days for heat and ac.. need to add a low ambient temp kit for it though for ac to work properly at sub 25f temps, if you don't line set and coil freeze up. I do have backup electric heat element in my air handler, although its never needed to be used.