1000w HPS to MH Conversion Bulb Exp?

[Ghostin]

Hey world,

Any of you guys have any experience with 1000w HPS to MH conversion bulbs and which brands would be decent?

I have a 1000w HPS magnetic ballast and hood, looking for a MH Conversion bulb that would be worth my wild in veg. I've currently been using two 4' fixtures, one T8 and one T12 with subpar results imo, I feel like they should be growing more given the 7 weeks of veg from seed. My budget is up to 60 bucks and I'm considering the Plantmax 1000W MH Conversion 7200K at $35 or the Xtrasun XTB3000 1000W Metal Halide Conversion bulb also at 7200K for $58 as a reference.

I don't want to purchase a separate ballast or hood due to space restrictions.

Any input would be much appreciated!
Thanks!

 

[Bud_Man10]

Hey Ghostin

Used an AgroMax 1000w MH conversion bulb for a few grows, worked perfectly. Think I chucked about $100 CDN for it though...

Peace
BM

 

[Ghostin]

Cool, I'll check AgroMax out too. Thanks Bud!

 

[Floridian]

I would spend that money on something that matters.I have vegged with HPS and have found absolutely zero difference than using a MH.Especially an expensive conversion lamp.I only wish I had that advice because when I started,I did exactly the same thing you are about to do.You will hear stories like the internodes will not be as tight as vegging with a MH.Thats what they are,stories and there is no validity to them in my experience.

 

[DocTim420]

I prefer the blue spectrum of MH bulbs in veg (4k), as well as early (7.2k) and late flowering (high UVB of 10k). HPS bulbs are 2k (very little blue spectrum).

That said (different strokes for different folks)--I would do a little back of an envelope calculations...compare the price of a 1000w MH ballast against the premium you will pay for a conversion MH bulb over a straight MH bulb...and note the limited selection of "conversion" bulbs---compared to straight 1000w MH bulbs. If you replace bulbs a couple of times each year...then the total premium paid for conversion bulbs could easily pay for the one time purchase of a MH ballast.

If it were me, I would buy a "pulse start" ballast (ANSI Code M141) and purchase "pulse start" metal halide lamps. The advantage of the M141 ballast (compared to the more affordable "probe start" (ANSI Code M47) ballast) is it operates both "pulse start" and "probe start" lamps and is more efficient. The M47 ballast is just for the older "probe start" lamps. FTW---you gotta match the ANSI Code of the ballast and lamp.

 

[Ghostin]

All good input, thanks guys!

 

[Bud_Man10]

I would spend that money on something that matters.I have vegged with HPS and have found absolutely zero difference than using a MH.Especially an expensive conversion lamp.I only wish I had that advice because when I started,I did exactly the same thing you are about to do.You will hear stories like the internodes will not be as tight as vegging with a MH.Thats what they are,stories and there is no validity to them in my experience.

Agree, years back I bought into the MH for veg, HPS for bloom mantra also...saw very little if any difference, now I use HPS exclusively.

Peace
BM

 

[Floridian]

If you believe that plants see the colors of the lamp and that MH is best for veg because it imitates a summer sky and HPS is better for flower because it imitates a fall sky,and that you will have tighter internodes during veg with MH as opposed to HPS,the only thing I can say is you have to prove it to yourself by experimentation.I did and saw no difference except vegging with HPS seemed to produce vegetation faster.The plants don't see the color of the light.One thing that is provable is that plants see lumens and especially PAR watts,in both instances the HPS is far more efficient than the MH in this.A 1K HPS delivers far more lumens and PAR watts than 1K mH.This is a fact.

 

[Floridian]

The way I came to the conclusion I did was this.I took identical clones from the same mother.By identical I mean the exact same height,structure and number of leaves.This is not hard to do if the mother is sufficiently mature.Veg them under HPS and MH taking care that the lamps are exactly the same distance from the tops at all different stages of growth.I wrote down observations each week making sure I kept everything totally the same.Same ambient temps and RH etc.You will notice the ambient temps at the canopy being slightly higher with the MH as opposed to the HPS at the exact same distance,I used a lazer thermometer.I used brand new commercial HPS and MH.Normally I use hortilux and used to use horticultural conversion MH in my grows but for the sake of keeping things constant,I used regular MH and HPS.The internodes spaced exactly the same with both lamps.The only difference at all I found was the plant matured slightly faster with the HPS.The folks at OG were spot on.I came to learn afterwards that this was because the lumens and PAR watts was greater in the HPS than in the MH.It was eye opening and I used Hortilux exclusively from then on.This was over 10 years ago in the Overgrow days.I hope people try this and see if they get the same results I did.Especially if you are considering using the ultra expensive conversion MH lamps that work with an HPS ballast.The price of these lamps and urging from folks on overgrow is the reason I took such care with this experiment.I bought a 1k metal halide fixture identical to my HPS fixtures in case I didn't get the results I expected,I was never going to use conversion lamps again.I did not use expensive conversion lamps for the experiment,just standard 1K MH and HPS lamps.The first 10 days or so I used the same wattage fluorescent lamps using CW and warm white lamps to mimic MH and HPS colors.

 

[watts]

If you dont think color spectrum matters to plants then why did you use hortilux? Hortilux has extra blue in their bulbs. Why didn't you just use cheaper hps bulbs? My guess is that the cheaper HPS bulbs without the increased blue spectrum wouldn't be as good for veg.

 

[stoney917]

It's only practical in a small grow n not necessary at all... I veg under both n don't notice any difference if there is any... from my conclusion if you got 1000w lights the plants will grow excellent regardless of mh hps... maybe lower watt lights it may make a difference but say read whatever you want a thousand watter if there is any it's not worth the price of the bulbs... time changing it or space storing when not in use...

 

[Floridian]

I use hortilux lamps for the high par watts not the color,the parking garage HPS are low in par watts.If you have to use a blue light in veg,check its par wattage.I wasn't aware horties had any blue spectrum

 

[DocTim420]

Of course everyone knows, MH lamps have different light spectrums--ranging from 3000 - 10000 kelvin. While HPS lamps hover in the 2000-3000 kelvin.

So, IMO, saying "I compared MH to HPS and I got _____________" isn't saying much unless you know the kelvin #. Not all MH's are created equal.

 

[Floridian]

That's where I disagree with you bro and is the whole point I'm trying to make in this thread.The kelvin or color temperature does not matter to me,what matters is the par watts.I know others disagree and that's cool to,but the color made no difference to me when I did my veg experiment.I bet instead of using commercial lamps if I had vegged with horties and top of the line MH horticultural lamps,there would have been little if any difference

 

[DocTim420]

That's where I disagree with you bro and is the whole point I'm trying to make in this thread.The kelvin or color temperature does not matter to me,what matters is the par watts.I know others disagree and that's cool to,but the color made no difference to me when I did my veg experiment.I bet instead of using commercial lamps if I had vegged with horties and top of the line MH horticultural lamps,there would have been little if any difference

So you are saying kelvin (light spectrum) does not matter? LOL, that's fine with me--but science is not on your side.

First, smarter people than both of us have concluded cannabis plants produce larger quantities of THC in situations of high UV-B exposure. So my question to you is, what is your rationale in suggesting a lower kelvin rated MH bulb (lower UV-B) is better?

The results of this review appear to indicate that individuals of Cannabis have
been naturally selected to produce large quantities of THC in situations of high
UV-B exposure. This seems to be the consequence of an advantage conferred to
the organism by the UV-B-screening properties of this compound.

http://www.jstor.org.sci-hub.cc/stable/4254533

Another stress to which plants are subject results from their daily exposure to sunlight. While necessary to sustain photosynthesis, natural light contains biologically destructive ultraviolet radiation. This selective pressure has apparently affected the evolution of certain defenses, among them, a chemical screening functionally analogous to the pigmentation of human skin. A preliminary investigation (Pate 1983) indicated that, in areas of high ultraviolet radiation exposure, the UV-B (280-315 nm) absorption properties of THC may have conferred an evolutionary advantage to Cannabis capable of greater production of this compound from biogenetic precursor CBD. The extent to which this production is also influenced by environmental UV-B induced stress has been experimentally determined by Lydon et al. (1987). Their experiments demonstrate that under conditions of high UV-B exposure, drug-type Cannabis produces significantly greater quantities of THC.

http://www.internationalhempassociation.org/jiha/iha01201.html

 

[Floridian]

.EDITI never said using HPS for veg is better,and I definitely never said that using a MH lamp is better as you stated,I said in my experience it made no difference of any significance.The thread starter was about to spend a lot of money on a conversion lamp which I had also previously done,I found out later in my own experience I had wasted that money.Other people may very well have done an experiment like mine and came to a different result.I can only talk about my experience.I have never heard that a certain color temperature resulted in a more beneficial outcome in veg or flower stages and you can find things on the net to support just about any claim.Until you do it for yourself,you will never know the truth of any outcome,thats why I encouraged people to do it for themselves.Facts are facts though and watt for watt an HPS produces more lumens and more PAR watts than a MH of the same wattage.I just encourage people to find out for themselves before spending money on expensive conversion lamps.Believe me,I gain or lose nothing if they decide to try it or not try it for themselves,I only wanted to impart my experience the same as most folks on og suggested it to me.It saved me money is the bottom line.UV exposure during either phase is a totally different subject.The subject is the use of conversion lamps.I think Ill close on that and let folks decide or not decide for themselves.EDIT The first HID fixture I bought was a sun systems 800 watt combo with the two 400 watt lamps oriented end to end.Problem solved haha

 

[DocTim420]

You speak as if you have a monopoly of both "knowledge" and "experience"....lol, sorry to burst your bubble.

First some clarification:

1. "Lumens" is the total output of light. Or said differently, it is a measuring unit for light/brightness...just as pounds is a measuring unit for finished cannabis.
2. Since UV-B is invisible, it produces zero lumens.
3. Two lamps, each producing 42,000 lumens will collectively produce 84,000 lumens when focused on the same spot.
4. For me, plants that finish (last few weeks prior to harvest) under high UV-B radiation obtain certain desirable qualities that you cannot achieve with HPS bulbs only.

That said, since the topic is about "conversion bulbs", here are 2 1000w MH conversion bulbs with higher kelvin ratings and lower lumens (compared to HPS).

Sunmaster--5500 kelvin/92,000 lumens: https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/96147/GROW-80227NA.html

Narva--7000 kelvin/85,000 lumens: https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/172925/GROW-10014.html

For me, the "best" UV-B lamp for finishing (based on: cost, UV-B and lumens) is a 600w MH conversion lamp, 10k kelvin @ 42,000 lumens. Where I had a single 1000w HPS, I now have a pair of 600w MH--which is an equivalent to about 84,000 lumens or so.

Cost? $32 each--https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/88311/PX-MPS60010K.html

Spec sheet: https://a89b8e4143ca50438f09-7c1706ba3fabeeda794725d88e4f5e57.ssl.cf2.rackcdn.com/spec_sheets/files/000/047/401/original/plantmax-px-mps60010k-specs.pdf?1482944613

Just saying....there is more to life than just "par watts".

 

[Ghostin]

Great points of view guys and props on keeping it civil, lol.

What I think I'm going to do is invest in the cheaper, ~$35, conversion bulb and try with that instead of burning out my more expensive flower bulbs by running them through almost the entire length of the process. I'm only looking to increase my veg wattage cheaply and I think a ~$35 bulb is worth the try for 1000w since I have the hardware anyway, right?

I just hope it doesn't damage my old mag ballast in any way!

 

[DocTim420]

Just remember "pulse start" and "probe start". The bulbs and ballast should match.

 

[Floridian]

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