1 on 1 off lamp configuration

[~Shhh~]

Hello,

A while ago, maybe 1-2 years there was an thread posted onto Overgrow about a dutch guy (I think) who had been experimenting with lighting.

He had a multi-lamp room maybe 12 x 600w lamps, set up into 2 rows of 6 lamps running a SOG. What he was doing was to have every other lamp in each row of 6 lights to run 6 hours out of the 12 hours they would usually be on for.

He claimed to still be yielding close to what he was getting running the all of the lamps all of the time

I think he had the lights lined up so that the for every light off on row 1 there was one on in row 2, if that makes any sense. If not here's a paint pic I knocked up to explain.



Anybody out there remember this guy or have any experience with this type of lighting set up?

 

[MTF-Sandman]

Don't remember the name, but there was an article in HT about it (about 18-24 months ago)...I think he started all of them for the first 2 hours then started switching then in a zig zag pattern then finished with all of them on for the last 2 hours.

I think he ended up saving like 27% electricity but had to run them an additional 3 or 4 days but it still ended up being slightly more efficient (electrically) than a straight 12/12 of all lights.

 

[The Dopest]

im givin the idea a run with a single 400w hps and two bulbs on a flip flop. i have it where it flips every hour right now[may change to 6/6]. i started it at day one flower, today is day 11. i plan to do a grow thread next run, same lighting schedule, once i can get all 8 clones in there. right now i am flowering two moms and 3 clones.


if you check in the flip flop thread there is a link to a video of my flip flop changing bulbs.

 

[Haps]

I do some playing with this, but my goofy efforts have mostly to do with simulating sun movement. Start with a 1Kmh, for a few hours, then add a K of yellow and run both for 2/3 of the day, shut down the mh, and have sundown with the mellow yellow. In this cycle, the plants really get all they can handle with the period of mixed light hitting them from different angles, the rest is warm up and cool down. Works for me, saves a bit of electric, and heat. Let us know what you see as the grow goes along, have fun.
H

 

[~Shhh~]

I think he started all of them for the first 2 hours then started switching then in a zig zag pattern then finished with all of them on for the last 2 hours.

I think he ended up saving like 27% electricity but had to run them an additional 3 or 4 days but it still ended up being slightly more efficient (electrically) than a straight 12/12 of all lights.

Hi MTF-sandman,

That sounds just like the grow I am talking about for sure, the zig zag pattern thing is what I remember too. Thanks for filling in the blanks. Can you remember if he said that he yielded the same amount as when he ran the lights normally?

The electrical saving is around the 30% mark then. That sounds pretty prospective, do you remember anybody else trying this out?

im givin the idea a run with a single 400w hps and two bulbs on a flip flop. i have it where it flips every hour right now[may change to 6/6]. i started it at day one flower, today is day 11. i plan to do a grow thread next run, same lighting schedule, once i can get all 8 clones in there. right now i am flowering two moms and 3 clones.


if you check in the flip flop thread there is a link to a video of my flip flop changing bulbs.

Cool, I will check your thread out. I like the name you call the process 'electrical mover'.

I do some playing with this, but my goofy efforts have mostly to do with simulating sun movement. Start with a 1Kmh, for a few hours, then add a K of yellow and run both for 2/3 of the day, shut down the mh, and have sundown with the mellow yellow. In this cycle, the plants really get all they can handle with the period of mixed light hitting them from different angles, the rest is warm up and cool down. Works for me, saves a bit of electric, and heat. Let us know what you see as the grow goes along, have fun.

sounds interesting Haps, so you are trying to get a better yield or more potent plants using this technique?


Thanks for the responses this sure is an intriguing subject.

 

[Guest]

Not sure, maybe someone else can confirm this - but my understanding was your bulbs take the biggest 'hit' when they are turned on, as well as the ballasts... 600w lights actually take like 700+ to get them started (unless you're running one of the expensive digital ballasts).

So, based on that, it seems that the wear and tear on the bulbs would outweigh the benefits of the monthly electric bill.... ? That combined with the bulbs not performing up to par, seems the ROI wouldnt be worth it.

 

[DB2004]

I'm very familiar with the zig-zag method. I've built a few units with this feature. Send me an email to [email protected] or ask me any questions here....

Best Regards

DB2004

 

[~Shhh~]

Not sure, maybe someone else can confirm this - but my understanding was your bulbs take the biggest 'hit' when they are turned on, as well as the ballasts... 600w lights actually take like 700+ to get them started (unless you're running one of the expensive digital ballasts).

I understand this to be the case as well. I am not sure how long the 700w+ draw occurs for but I'm guessing that it's a short period of time. As you say digital ballasts are also an option to avoid the higher electrical draw on start up.

So, based on that, it seems that the wear and tear on the bulbs would outweigh the benefits of the monthly electric bill.... ? That combined with the bulbs not performing up to par, seems the ROI wouldnt be worth it.

I'm not so sure we should jump to that conclusion immediately, I don't think the primary concern is the actual bill itself although any reduction in cost is always welcome. The abilty to yield more using less electricity will offset any also offset any cost for bulbs.

The example given by MTF-sandman means that if using the same 7200w of lighting

100% would run for 4 hours of the 12 hour period- 4 hours x 7.2kw

then 50% would run for the other 8 hours- 8 hours x 3.6kw

If we then factor in digital ballasts reducing start up consumption costs, then I'd say this is definately worth some more thought.

The main question is did he actually yield the same amount as when having he did running the lights run normally. If the answer is yes then I can see clear advantages to persuing this technique.

Thanks for your point of view as it does raise some concerns and valid points.

 

[~Shhh~]

I'm very familiar with the zig-zag method. I've built a few units with this feature. Send me an email to [email protected] or ask me any questions here....

Best Regards

DB2004

Great!

Can you explain how the process is implemented,

times for lights come on and go off

yields

and the general principles of how the technique works.

Also can you address the concerns bought up by slypknot and anything else you can add would be fantastic.

Thanks a bunch!

 

[MTF-Sandman]

I know it's been a while, but I still haven't found that damn article after searching my archives of HT....anywho, in re: the yields, I believe they were the same if not very similar to standard "all on lighting" but it took like an extra 3-4 days.

I believe it's also most beneficial when going 6 lights or larger...I wanna say the article was written based on a 12 light setup.

Also might look up einstein system for controlling the heat...I vaguely remember something about that turning off more and more lights if the temps got too high.

 

[BlindDate]

Not sure, maybe someone else can confirm this - but my understanding was your bulbs take the biggest 'hit' when they are turned on, as well as the ballasts... 600w lights actually take like 700+ to get them started (unless you're running one of the expensive digital ballasts).

This is a myth that is spread around on these boards. Actually, the opposite occurs. When a bulb first fires up it draws very little current. The current draw slowly increases as the light gets brighter.

I think that the reason such lighting schemes are succesfull is because most people use way more light than they need. All strains are different, but as you apply more and more light, you will reach a point of diminishing returns eventually.

 

[ethereal]

caveat (for what it's worth) ~ the more you turn your lamp on and off the shorter it's life.

also, doesnt firing a lamp up use lotsa power?

turning lights on and off every hour is definitely overkill IMHO

 

[ethereal]

This is a myth that is spread around on these boards. Actually, the opposite occurs. When a bulb first fires up it draws very little current. The current draw slowly increases as the light gets brighter.

I think that the reason such lighting schemes are succesfull is because most people use way more light than they need. All strains are different, but as you apply more and more light, you will reach a point of diminishing returns eventually.

cool i agree.
in the latter stages of flower i sometimes even back-off my lights a bit.
and thanks for the clarification on power consumption when firing up

 

[mace_ecam]

the surge is not a myth.
a cool bulb has less resistance/impendance than a hot one.

 

[stonewall]

there is infinite resistance across arc discharge lamps when the arc is not lit.

the initial inrush current is caused by the ballast and is very short in duration. After the initial inrush current caused by the ballast, and after the arc is lit, the bulbs current draw rises gradually as the arc reaches temperature.

 

[The Dopest]

we're talkin one on one off light conguration... i will definitely be doin this again. like i mentioned i havent run this hydro or lighting setup before and the strain was a cross from my last grow so i had no way of knowing what my yields would be but so far im a happy camper. i took one small plant at day 62 with mostly cloudy trics. i want more couchlock so i will be takin the others soon but still watchin the trics.

the receptacle is in the center of the backwall of the 54" wide closet, top plug is centered at 48" from floor. for reference. strain is Master Skunkush.



from above