2nd Grow In New Cabinet

When I moved to a new house I needed a new set up. No more convenient, 6-foot tall crawl space any more. So I got me one of them double-wides. Wardrobe, that is.

My first grow in this new cabinet this past winter was a bit underwhelming. Rather than having just 2 or 3 plants and letting them get pretty big, as I had always done in the past, my plan was to have 6 or 8 plants and flower them faster. Sounded good on paper, but I only ended up with 2 females (from seed). Since I flowered them early, they were pretty small and yielded only about 1 oz per plant.

My other big problem with that first grow was heat. The temps stayed in the high 80s when the lights were on. So I made some adjustments -- better circulation and moving the ballast out of the cabinet. It would have worked too, but I didn't take into account the outside temp. The area my cabinet is in is mostly underground and all winter the temp stayed around 60 deg. Now in the summer it's considerably higher, around 75 deg. The result is my cabinet temps are even higher.

Since my seeds had already germinated, I needed a quick fix and the first thing that came to mind was an evaporative system, like a swamp cooler. I got some cheese cloth and stretched it over the air intake vents. Then I placed the bottom of the cloth in a tub of water. The idea was that the cloth would wick up the water and the air going into the cabinet would evaporate it. Again, sounded good on paper, but I found that the wick action has its limits. The cloth only got wet about 6 inches above the water.

My solution was to move the bucket up above the intakes, so now the water only needs to rise a few inches and then runs down the cheese cloth. Now the cloth is constantly wet and the temps in the cabinet are down several degrees. Only problem is that the cloth soaks up water faster than it can evaporate. It is now dripping on the floor and I need to fill the bucket up at least twice a day. That's where I am as of today, thinking about how to catch the water and possibly recycle it. Maybe another bucket at the bottom with a pump to get it back up to the top. I don't know, sounds kind of complicated. I'm open to suggestions.

The Grow

The Grow

I'm using 2 250-watt MH lights -- 10,000 K for veg and 5200 K for flower. I grow in soil, all organic, with a variety of amendments. I water with used aquarium water supplemented with aquarium filter squeezins', molasses, Metanaturals fertilizer.

I grow from seed (not able to keep clones), and they are mostly bag seed. I don't buy anything myself to get the seeds from, so I have a network of friends across the country that save any they run across that they think are good and send them to me.

This time I was trying three different batches of seeds. One was the same I grew last crop and quite acceptable. Nice taste. The friend I got them from was told they were White Widow, but I don't think so. Quite good anyway. But they must be getting old, because only two of five germinated. They are growing very slowly. The second batch was from a friend that described what they came from as "superb." None of those germed, and none germed last time, so I think they must be REALLY old. The third batch was from something I confiscated from my son a while back (yes, I'm a hypocrite). All five of those germed and look really healthy. I have no idea what they came from, but I'm guessing it's crappy, mass-produced stuff. We'll see.

Right now I'm at 2 days since they poked up out of the soil, so nothing really photo worthy yet. I have 5 plants starting on their second set of leaves and two that are just showing their first.

Oh, and the other thing I'm trying is a feminization method, since I ended up with so few females last time. I put all the seeds in a bag with a banana for about 2 weeks prior to planting. The ethylene from the ripening banana is supposed to feminize the seeds. Can't hurt. I also believe using the high-nitrogen water I get when I clean my aquarium contributes to a higher proportion of females. I got lazy last time and didn't use it and believe that's why I ended up with almost all males. This time it's aquarium water all the way.

That's it for now. Look for an update soon.

Update at 7 Days

Update at 7 Days

Today is the one week mark and the seedlings are doing well. They are starting their second set of leaves and look quite healthy.

This is in spite of the heat. Temps are in the mid 90s with the lights on and there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it. No matter how much ventilation I have (and I definitely have sufficient ventilation), if the outside air is too warm it's not going to make a difference. I'm afraid that I'm going to be forced to consider that growing in the summer with my current setup is just not feasible.

Also, since several of my beans didn't pop, I planted a few more from a different batch. They all sprouted today, so now I have a total of 9 seedlings, but three are one week behind.

Just my experience but the seeds that your growing, if they are from brickweed will most likely be a lot more hardy and heat resistant than you think. I've flowered bagseed in a cab that measured 14" deep x 33" wide x 4' tall With a 400 mh and a 50 cfm bathroom fartfan. If you can put a layer of glass under the light and reroute your ventilation, and keep them well watered you should be just fine. I've grown at close to 100 degrees. It seems to affect the density of your buds a little but it still smokes.

Update at 19 Days

Update at 19 Days

I finally have a few pictures. My camera is hit or miss when it comes to close-ups, so I only have a few good ones. They're representative.



The first two on the left are at 19 days, and the one on the right is at 12 days. The one on the left is one of the five from one batch that all popped. The one in the middle is the lone one from the alleged White Widow batch. It's been a little deformed and slow-growing from the beginning. And the one on the right is one of the three that I planted a week later.

So, they are not doing too badly in spite of the heat, which is getting up to the low 90s. If nothing else, I think it's slowing them down a bit. But otherwise they look pretty healthy. And the heat makes for a fine line between over-watering and drying out and baking. I just put a piece of glass between the bulbs and the plants -- before there was nothing -- so I'll see if that has any effect on temp. It doesn't seal off the cabinet, but it does filter all the direct light hitting the plants. If nothing else, it should cut down on the UV that MH bulbs have so much of.

So now I have a large exhaust fan pulling through a carbon filter, an oscillating fan blowing just above the plants, and a small PC fan blowing across the bulbs just above the glass. And I have my evaporative cooling system, which I'm convinced is helping at least a bit. Unless we have a sudden cold wave, I can't think of anything else to do about the temps. I'll just have to keep on truckin' and see what happens.

Update at 26 Days

Update at 26 Days

By using a tripod and turning off the fans, I got a few more decent pictures.



The three on the left are now at 26 days. I think it's safe to say that they are leaning toward the sativa end of the spectrum. Which would not be too surprising since I believe they came from brickweed. They are stretching a bit, but I think it's mostly just the way they grow. I've been keeping my lights high because of the heat, but the two on the right, at 19 days, are not stretching at all. Those two are definitely at the indica end of the spectrum, so I think I'm just seeing a tall, thin strain next to a short, squat strain. The difference between the shape of the leaves is also pretty obvious in these side-by-side pictures. Interesting that the person that I got the beans from said they were from high quality. I guess that means I can make a pretty good guess as to what kind of smoke that person like.

The temps have improved a bit and are now at 90-92 with the lights on and 70-75 with the lights off. I'd like it to be a little lower, but then I'd like to be a little richer too. Actually, they aren't growing all that slow and appear quite healthy. Compared to my last grow at this stage, these all have one or two more sets of leaves. Of course I'm also running 20 hours of light this time versus 16 hours last time.

When I click on the picture I uploaded and see it full size, it's still about half the size of my original. Is there a maximum size? Would I be better off uploading several individual pictures?

Death Walks Behind You

Death Walks Behind You

No, I'm not talking about the classic album by the obscure early heavy metal band Atomic Rooster. But I am speaking metaphorically about my recent experience.

I don't however mean death in the metaphorical sense. I'm talking real, brutal, violent, sudden death. The death of a young one mowed down, not yet in the prime of their life. Nipped in the bud, if you will.

Here's my sad story: I put large rubber bands around the rims of my pots when growing. I use these to stick strings under to tie down the plants. Very clever system that I did not invent. I do this before planting since I can't stretch the rubber bands over a pot with plants in it. Well, I noticed today that one of the rubber bands had snapped. I figured I'd better replace it before the little ones got too big. So I'm carefully stretching the band over the top of the pot and it slipped. It was all over in the blink of an eye. In a nanosecond. The out-of-control, careening band sliced through a tender young plant decisively decapitating it. Leaves and stems were flying everywhere. I was (am) devastated. After all my care and worry, it ends like this, because of my stupid carelessness for one brief instant. And it was one of only three of my "M" batch.

On the bright side, as if there was one, it was the smallest plant and had a very sickly start. It was looking good though and starting to put on some biomass. Also, there are still two sets of leaves left at the bottom, so it might just recover. This may just turn out to be a premature topping.

And then there were 8.

Tagging this one. Definitely curious to see if the banana peel thing worked well for you.

Update at 36 Days

Update at 36 Days

I hate to even mention this because it makes me sound pretty careless, not to mention incompetent. But shortly after my rubber band incident, I did something much worse. I swapped out the timer for my exhaust fan and set the new timer incorrectly. Mixed up AM and PM. The result was my plants went for about 10 hours with no exhaust. Luckily (and I use that term loosely) I had a fan on for circulation, and it apparently pushed the heat over to one side of the cabinet. Only the two plants on the side opposite the fan were seriously damaged. Here's the worst of the two 5 days later:


This is one of the five from the brickweed batch.

The other brickweed burned plant suffered much less and aside from a few curled leaves, I think it will survive. For comparison, below is my biggest of the five brickweed plants:


The largest brickweed, shortly after it was first tied down.

My one surviving non-WW plant may have also suffered a bit from the heat, as you can see in this picture.


The non-WW has a few discolored leaves at the bottom and is growing very slowly.

Finally, there are the three from batch M. Below is one of the two that still look good (remember, I decapitated one).


Type M looking good.

As it turns out, the slicing off of one of my plants doesn't look like the tragedy I thought at first. It's already sprouting new growth.

So that's it for now. I'm thinking about another week to 10 days before going to 12/12. By that time, most of the distressed plants should be recovered if they're ever going to. And the rest should be about the right size to fill up my space.

Update at 40 Days

Update at 40 Days

Although the heat is still a problem, I haven't done anything stupid in several days now and things are looking good. The severely burned plant finally died, but the moderately burned one is hanging in there.


Somewhat heat damaged -- not getting worse, but not really growing.

I've started with some training, as you can see.


The biggest brickweed plant.


A batch M plant that is looking great at 33 days.


The little batch M plant that I chopped off is making a comeback.

Looks like 12/12 will start this weekend. I have to be in super stealth mode for a day this weekend, meaning no fans (and of course no lights), so I figured that would be a good time to switch over. Only thing is I will have to have the lights off for about 22 hours straight before they come on again for 12/12. I hope this won't screw anything up. Maybe it will even kick-start flowering.

Update at 12/12 2 Days

Update at 12/12 2 Days

I've been at 12/12 for two whole days now, and even after that extended dark period, still no sign of flowers. When you grow from seed, that first week after switching to 12/12 is the longest ever. Kind of like when you're a kid, the last week of school before summer vacation. Except of course the outcome when growing is never certain.

At least it looks like the worst of my heat problems are over. No thanks to the unseasonably-warm mid-September temperatures (damn global warming). But with the lights on from 10 PM to 10 AM the temps are staying in the low 80s.

Here are some group photos:


The left half of the cab -- B = brickweed, M = batch M. You can even see a bit of the little one I sliced off.


The right half of the cab. W = non-WW, B = brickweed. The one on the far right is the burned one, still no worse but still not growing.

Update at 12/12 9 Days

Update at 12/12 9 Days

We had to be out of town for 3 days with nobody to care for the little ones. Since I've been watering every 2-3 days, I figured I'd just soak them good and hope for the best. And the best is what I got. Talk about stretch! They had a major growth spurt and I hardly recognized them when I got home. All except for the little one I had chopped off. It had been making a comeback, but I think I drowned it (the soil was still quite wet when I returned). That and the fact that it was completely blocked from the light by the others that filled in so much. Whatever the reason, it's probably not going to make it. No great loss, since it was so tiny.

And now on to the important news. One of my brickweed plants that I suspected of being a male, had male buds sprouting all over it when I got back. It's now in the compost pile. Also, it was the heat-damaged plant, so perhaps the stress counteracted my attempted feminization. On the bright side, of the remaining 6 all but one are most definitely female. The only one I'm still not sure of is one of the 2 M plants, which I think may be male but am not quite sure yet. I do have 5 females though (3 brickweed, 1 M, and 1 non-WW), although 3 of them are the brickweed, so I may get the most of the worst.

And now for the picts. As you can see, I've put the screen in, and with one pot missing have more room for them to spread out.


That's the non-WW on the left and a brickweed on the right.


These are the two M plants, the one in the back is the definite female.


And these are the other two brickweed plants, the one in back the largest of them all.

Feminization Results

Feminization Results

The results of my attempt at feminizing seeds are in. Unfortunately, they are pretty meaningless.

I ended up with only 5 plants from the banana-treated seeds. Of those, 4 are female. I also have two plants from non-treated seeds, and both of those are female. The only thing I can say about these results is that they are inconclusive.

However, as I understand it, chemically treated feminized seeds will only produce females when they are grown under ideal or near-ideal conditions. This grow I had heat problems -- during most of the veg time the temps were in the mid to upper 90s. And the one male I did get was the one that suffered heat damage when I left the fan off for a day. So it wasn't really a fair test of the banana treatment.

On the other hand, I can draw a conclusion based on my personal, unscientific experience. My last several grows (except one) have been around 100% female. I attribute this to two things: using high-nitrogen aquarium water/aquarium filter squeezin's and using 10,000 K (i.e., lots of blue) bulbs during veg. My previous grow, on which I used only plain water (just the usual organic ferts), I ended up with only 2 out of 7 females. So I think getting 6 out of 7 females on this current crop is more due to the water and lights than to the banana treatment.

So make of these results what you will. As for me, I think I'm not going to bother with bananas in the future and just rely on aquarium water and blue lights. It may be just superstition, but as long as I'm getting lots of females I see no reason to change.

Update at 12/12 23 Days

Update at 12/12 23 Days

Finally, there are some buds worthy of photographing. Things are moving right along, and everyone one of the girls looks happy and healthy. No major (or minor) catastrophe's to report. They look like they are right on track for this point in time. Just watching and waiting now.


This is one of the three brickweed plants, the sativa dom. It's the biggest of them all.


This is one of the two from batch "M," the indica dom. Even though they were planted a week late, they are bigger than most of the others now. The other one, not shown, is much less stretchy than this one.



And finally, the lone non-WW. It is the least bushy, with pretty much just the one main cola. Not surprising, since I got hardly any popcorn buds with these last time. It is also a bit lighter in color than the others.

Update at 12/12 30 Days

Update at 12/12 30 Days

The young ladies are now 30 days into flowering. By my reckoning, that's probably just shy of half way through. They are really hitting their stride growth-wise. Not much for me to do now, except practice patience. And gaze in wonder, as I am wont to do.

I don't know if it comes across in the picts, but here are some side-by-side comparisons of the same plants at 23 (left) and 30 days (right). In person, the difference is pretty dramatic. So join me, if you will, in gazing.


Here's the non-WW plant. It's the slowest grower and has very little side growth. Looks like it will be one big main cola. But that one cola is really packing on the weight. They are now at full-strength nutes and will be for the next few weeks, so they'll not go hungry.


Here's one of the batch "M" plants. It was stretching way too much, getting way taller than the rest, so I had to tie it down. Remember, it was planted a week late, but is now 2nd biggest. It's partner is also filling out, but not nearly as stretchy.


And here's the biggest of the 3 brickweed plants. I don't think these picts do it justice, as it is filling out quite at bit. There are 2 others of these, but they are not nearly as hefty.

Update at 12/12 37 Days

Update at 12/12 37 Days

At day 37 there is more of the same -- waiting, watching, and some occasional gazing thrown in for good measure. They are continuing to pack on the weight. I don't know about you, but I like my girls heavy on top. That applies to my weed plants too. :wink:

So without further ado, some photos:


Here's the lone non-WW. It is the leader so far with the biggest, thickest cola of them all. Can you tell the difference from a week ago? This is one full-figured, middle-aged lady. It is looking very healthy.


Here's the bigger of the two batch M girls. It too is packing on the weight, but because it's growing sideways the side buds are growing away from the main stem and not creating that big, thick main cola look. But it will fill in, I have confidence. You may also notice some curling down and shriveling of some leaves on this girl. I usually interpret that as a sign of overwatering, but it looks like that even when it needs water. Don't know what its problem is. Any ideas?


And here is the biggest of the bagweed girls. It too is continuing to fill out and looking very healthy. It has lots of big side buds, so will be a good producer (or as Tony Soprano might say, a good earner). I just hope I don't end up with the most of the worst.

Feel free to scroll up to the picts from last week if you'd care to compare and contrast.

Update at 12/12 44 Days

Update at 12/12 44 Days

Jah is surely testing my patience. We are in the home stretch and the waiting is killing me. The girls are 44 days into flower, that's just over 6 weeks to you and me. But how long will they take? I have no way of knowing. Looking back, I see that last time I harvested the two non-WW's at 56 and 66 days, so even that's quite a range. And I only have one of those this time. Any guesses? Want to start a betting pool?

I know, I know. Too much chatter and not enough pictures. OK, I get it. Here they are:



Here's one you haven't seen before, the other "M" plant. It's doing great and starting to get that "bud growing out of bud" appearance. Getting close.



Here's the other "M" plant, which is still showing those claw leaves. That's not good. I believe it means too much nitrogen, like I kept up with the ferts too long. But the other M plant is not showing this at all. Oh well, it's plain water (and molasses) from here on out, but with organics you can't really flush anything out of the soil.



Here's the lone non-WW. Still looking good and packing on the weight. It's just that one big cola, but it's getting fat and extending pretty far down from the top.



And the biggest of the brickweed. They are all moving right along and looking healthy, but are slower than the others. That's those sativa genetics for you.

But I'm starting to think that hoped-for massive harvest just isn't going to happen. Last time I got a little over 2 oz out of 2 plants. I'm guessing that this time I'll be lucky to get 3 oz out of 6 plants. And three of those plants are the brickweed, which may (or may not) suck. I don't know what my problem is; I just can't seem to get the yield I should be getting. But I don't want to be accused of being a premature chicken counter. So I'll say no more.

Update at 12/12 50 Days

Update at 12/12 50 Days

I finally realized that I can set the white balance on my camera. So hopefully the picts will be much more consistent, and I will no longer have to fiddle around in iPhoto to get the colors right.

Not much new to report. I think the girls are slowing down. As well they should be after 7 weeks of flowering their little hearts out.


Here's the big M plant, looking the same with those claw leaves. Looks bad. And now something new is going on (see below).



And here's the other M plant. No clawed leaves, but...



Here's the big bagweed, still going strong and looking quite healthy.



And of course the non-WW plant looking great.



Here's the problem both M plants are having. Yellow-orange spots suddenly appeared. I thought it was your basic magnesium deficiency, but a shot of epsom salts didn't seem to help. This is absolutely the worst time for some kind of deficiency to show up. Too late to do much about it. Anybody have any suggestions?

Check the underside and look for bugs. You may have spider mites or thrips. If not then it would look like a calcium deficiency which espom salt lacks. Cal-mag is good and is a necessity for me otherwise I get mg def.

It could also be a ph issue/lockout. Do you check the ph of the water you feed with? Have you tested the ph of the first bit of runoff? If that all looks in check (~6.5) then I'd say its a Ca def. It also looks to me that some of your plants are over fed by the way the leaves are curling under themselves. Or could be overwatering?

Barnt said:

Check the underside and look for bugs. You may have spider mites or thrips. If not then it would look like a calcium deficiency which espom salt lacks. Cal-mag is good and is a necessity for me otherwise I get mg def.

It could also be a ph issue/lockout. Do you check the ph of the water you feed with? Have you tested the ph of the first bit of runoff? If that all looks in check (~6.5) then I'd say its a Ca def. It also looks to me that some of your plants are over fed by the way the leaves are curling under themselves. Or could be overwatering?

Click to expand...

Definitely no bugs.

I don't measure pH, so I have no idea what it is.

I don't use Cal-Mag, but have been using molasses in all waterings and amended the soil with dolomite lime and epsom salts, which has been sufficient in the past. Although now that I think about it, I had a similar-looking plant a few years ago (very dark green, wide leaves) that also showed similar spots, but only a few. Maybe these more heavily indica dominant strains like more calcium and/or magnesium.

And yes that one plant does have claw leaves, which is not from overwatering. It's one of the ones with the spots. I think maybe I continued with the veg nutes too long into 12/12 for this particular plant (too much nitrogen). Not much I can do about it now, since I can't really flush organic nutes out of the soil.