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question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

B

bigherb

Well-known member
Veteran
sam s much respect to you and all your doings hope you hav a moment to enlighten me
i understand the original haze from the 7os was your fav of all time.im wondering if the o.haze the flying dutchmen carry today is the same as the one you speak of. im a haze lover myself its some of the most potent delicious tasting buds i ever smoked. i love amsterdam but i havnt seen haze in the coffeshops that can compare with wat we hav bac home .i know you brought the genetics out ther but were they at. id lov to see pics of the o.h. n also a smoke report if possible.
 
G

Guest

For many years now I have been a member of the various forums, and I have read much information on all of the more legendary varietys in the world. I have grown more famous Dutch lines than you shake a stick at and have seen some varietys hyped well beyond their means and some varietys that were very good, despite their lack of attention among the masses.


The Nevilles Haze is said to be originated from the earliest Haze stock available. The lines are said to trace back to genetics from 1969. There are indeed many documented grow reports on the Nevilles Haze which support its description as some of the best in the world.


The Flying Dutchmen Original Haze is not as old as the Nevilles Haze lines I have read, and definitely has a lack of grow reports to back up the legendary status this variety has. Also interesting to note the Dutchmen Original Haze is much faster then Pure Haze is generally given credit for. For many years now the Dutchmen Original Haze has been available, but very few grow reports have documented its life cycle.

You can have people tell you its LSD marijuana all you want, but if that was the truth and the Original Haze was that good it would be grown more frequently then the various Kush lines on the boards.


I remain unconvinced the Original Haze is as good as many say it is. Where are the grow reports? The numerous first hand accounts of the dutchmens genetics?


No disrespect to anybody, but you have to stop and think sometimes.
 
C21H30O2

C21H30O2

I have ridden the mighty sandworm.
Veteran
AnatomiclySound said:
For many years now I have been a member of the various forums, and I have read much information on all of the more legendary varietys in the world. I have grown more famous Dutch lines than you shake a stick at and have seen some varietys hyped well beyond their means and some varietys that were very good, despite their lack of attention among the masses.


The Nevilles Haze is said to be originated from the earliest Haze stock available. The lines are said to trace back to genetics from 1969. There are indeed many documented grow reports on the Nevilles Haze which support its description as some of the best in the world.


The Flying Dutchmen Original Haze is not as old as the Nevilles Haze lines I have read, and definitely has a lack of grow reports to back up the legendary status this variety has. Also interesting to note the Dutchmen Original Haze is much faster then Pure Haze is generally given credit for. For many years now the Dutchmen Original Haze has been available, but very few grow reports have documented its life cycle.

You can have people tell you its LSD marijuana all you want, but if that was the truth and the Original Haze was that good it would be grown more frequently then the various Kush lines on the boards.


I remain unconvinced the Original Haze is as good as many say it is. Where are the grow reports? The numerous first hand accounts of the dutchmens genetics?


No disrespect to anybody, but you have to stop and think sometimes.
Click to expand...

it may have something to do with the 26 + week flowering time...
 
G

Guest

The Original Haze


strain : The Original Haze.

Developed: Pure breeding Sativa / Indica: Pure Sativa
Appearance: Very resinous, heavy buds

Smell / taste: Sweet and sour

High / strength: Very potent, clear up, energetic high

Yield per m2: Good Sowing time: May / June Outdoor harvest: End of December (Holland)

Flowering period: 12 - 16 weeks (12 hrs indoor) Special breeding stock.
The only original pure haze available.


11 seeds per pack

We have worked with this variety in Holland for almost 20 years now. It is the base for all the Haze you can find here in Holland. Since being stabilized in the late 70's The Original Haze has never been hybridized. Perfect for breeding projects due to it's pure breeding status. For commercial growers this strain is not recommended due to it's size and long maturation time. Very potent with an energetic cerebral high.
Click to expand...


We're talking about the Original Haze from The Flying Dutchmen, which doesnt list its flowering times nearly at 26 weeks. Thats a common argument Ive read throughout the years, it takes too long. But in reality there would have been groweres among the literally thousands on the boards over the great many years who would have for gone the long period in order to grow it out.


So I read and have read so much about the Original Haze and its history. But very few reports have actually been done on these varietys. While other sativa lines, some who take up to 20 weeks themselves are readily available on the forums.


If its as good as people say, where are the grow reports? Where are the numerous first hand accounts of how potent this marijuana is? Maybe it is that good, may it isnt. I just think its interesting nobody seems to grow this variety, which has been available for a great many years now.

There are literally more grow reports on the OT1 Haze then the Original Haze, Im not the only one who thinks this to be odd?
 
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Sam_Skunkman

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
AnatomiclySound said:
For many years now I have been a member of the various forums, and I have read much information on all of the more legendary varietys in the world. I have grown more famous Dutch lines than you shake a stick at and have seen some varietys hyped well beyond their means and some varietys that were very good, despite their lack of attention among the masses.


The Nevilles Haze is said to be originated from the earliest Haze stock available. The lines are said to trace back to genetics from 1969. There are indeed many documented grow reports on the Nevilles Haze which support its description as some of the best in the world.


The Flying Dutchmen Original Haze is not as old as the Nevilles Haze lines I have read, and definitely has a lack of grow reports to back up the legendary status this variety has. Also interesting to note the Dutchmen Original Haze is much faster then Pure Haze is generally given credit for. For many years now the Dutchmen Original Haze has been available, but very few grow reports have documented its life cycle.

You can have people tell you its LSD marijuana all you want, but if that was the truth and the Original Haze was that good it would be grown more frequently then the various Kush lines on the boards.


I remain unconvinced the Original Haze is as good as many say it is. Where are the grow reports? The numerous first hand accounts of the dutchmens genetics?


No disrespect to anybody, but you have to stop and think sometimes.
Click to expand...


Well, Nevilles Haze is derived from Original Haze matierials I gave Neville in 1980's, not 1969, but it is not a pure Haze, it has been crossed with the NL line.
So you are comparing apples and oranges..
Take FD Original Haze and make a cross with your favorite female clone and you will be surprised how good it is. Often much better then either parent.

Also I have suggested many times that Original Haze is "breeding material" not great commercial growing materials, but you seem to only notice what you want to notice. It is the only pure Original Haze available.

Bottom line is if you want an almost Haze line that is stong and popular get Nevilles Haze, SSH, Kali Mist, Sage, or a dozen other Haze Hybrids that mostly used my Original Haze as a parent, directly or through a Haze Hybrid based on my Haze genetics available from 1976 from me.

If you want pure Sativa blood to use for breeding then remember that all of the above are Haze hybrids only and most used Indica bloodlines to some degree.

"We're talking about the Original Haze from The Flying Dutchmen, which doesnt list its flowering times nearly at 26 weeks"

What is the 26 weeks about? I have grown Haze a lot, but 26 weeks? WTF??

-SamS
 
G

Guest

Sam_Skunkman said:
Well, Nevilles Haze is derived from Original Haze matierials I gave Neville in 1980's, not 1969, but it is not a pure Haze, it has been crossed with the NL line.
So you are comparing apples and oranges..
Click to expand...
Hi Sam,
First things first, you should be aware I have alot of respect for you. But I have to say that Ive got first hand knowledge from those involved at MNS that contradict your story of giving Neville the seeds that ultimately went into the Nevilles Haze. They can and do trace their haze stock back to 1969 and I have absolutely no reason to doubt their words.

You're right though, NH does have NL in its mix. But the reason I brought up Nevs Haze is because its known to go 20 weeks give or take itself. And another poster mentioned the reason we do not see so many reports is because of its flowering times. Which is an answer we here alot throughout the years whenever a similar question is posed.

Sam_Skunkman said:
Take FD Original Haze and make a cross with your favorite female clone and you will be surprised how good it is. Often much better then either parent.
Click to expand...
I have heard the same infact for many years Sam.

Sam_Skunkman said:
Also I have suggested many times that Original Haze is "breeding material" not great commercial growing materials, but you seem to only notice what you want to notice. It is the only pure Original Haze available.
Click to expand...

Yes I have read this as well, even the Dutchmen state pretty much the same thing. But Im just curious as to why its reputed to have lsd like qualities yet so many people have not reported on her.

If I was going to purchase The Original Haze, I would want the Haze that has the effects we had read you describe so many times Sam. In my experience with Haze, they have proved to be lack luster in comparison to your descriptions which leave me kicking the wall wishing I could acquire the variety you speak of so highly.

Sam_Skunkman said:
Bottom line is if you want an almost Haze line that is stong and popular get Nevilles Haze, SSH, Kali Mist, Sage, or a dozen other Haze Hybrids that mostly used my Original Haze as a parent, directly or through a Haze Hybrid based on my Haze genetics available from 1976 from me.


-SamS
Click to expand...

Kali Mist is not a haze hybrid to my knowledge, but does have a reputation for itself. Simon has stated the Kali is derived from lines that were not available in holland.


Sam_Skunkman said:
If you want pure Sativa blood to use for breeding then remember that all of the above are Haze hybrids only and most used Indica bloodlines to some degree.
Click to expand...
Yes that is true, but there are some of us(myself included) who do not want an inbred line from The dutchmen of Haze. And when we read your description of the Haze Sam and How good it is, yet there are very few others with access to your lines to report on them that leaves alot to be desired from my end.

Sam_Skunkman said:
What is the 26 weeks about? I have grown Haze a lot, but 26 weeks? WTF??

-SamS
Click to expand...

Your guess is as good as mine Sam, I didnt say 26 weeks the other guy did. But the fact these lines are said to take quite a while is an excuse many hear/read as to why there are few reports on these varietys online.


It would be nice to see others experiencing the same things this legendary variety is said to possess.


Much respect Sam,
AS
 
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G

Guest

I hate so say anything without a source to back up my claims, which alot of members like to do on these boards.

I have no beef with anybody or any seed bank. Ive been involved in Marijuana for a great many years, but not nearly as long as the veterans like Sam, Neville, Shanti, Simon, Eddie etc. You have to respect the guys who paved the roads we drive on today.




Originally Posted by shantibaba
Hi All

just to clear the air from confusion and before you all go making a legend from myth here is how it was done and is done still....

Nh is made from Haze C male which is made by two pure haze parents from 1969....then the female side of NH is made from Haze A combined to NL5 or NL5Haze A where Haze A was also made by two pure Haze parents also from 1969
Haze A is no longer alive only Haze C male is along with several other different sativa lines.

but plants with the lineage of Haze A are still alive and carrying the genes within.

SSH is made up of Haze C combined to Skunk 1 or Skunk HzC which is the male side, the female side is Haze C combined to NL5 or NL5HzC

the Mango comes from a parallel cross same as SSH but with one difference

Haze A male combined to Sk 1 or Sk HzA being the male plant, the female is NL5HzC....that is the breeding of those three plants

considering the Haze A is no longer a male alive, it still is alive in the ancestry of some of the plants used in all these breeds

I do not have secrets about breeding but given the same seed batches we could all still create something different...it boils down to selection.

La Nina is the widow father breed to a pure Haze female...neither A or C by the way so I hope that clears up all your doubts once and for all.

There is no one other than Simon at serious seeds who follows breeding plants like we do.Most Dutch seed companies use females plants obtained from seed batches that were passed on to them or sent to them, making their origins a little doubtful at certain stages. The whole seed industry based alot of things on Neville's origins in fact , but none except Sensi Seed had the parent plants to replicate things time and time again. Whether plants dies or were lost to disease over the years...well most companies would probably not tell anyone, but think about it.How many back ups of parent plants would you need in how many countries to be sure never to loose an important line? As enforcement on growers gets more and more restricting rooms get found etc....and the law of averages catches up on you. My last problem with the Swiss authorities I lost all plants in my library...some 42 mum's and dad's...luckily we keep backup of all the most important plants in 5 different countries and have done for years...if we had not had done this then we too would have lost alot of heirlooms. I do keep original batches of seed from years ago also in several places just in case I have to go all the way back to the drawing board to do selection again...but that is as bad as it gets for us.

As you can see it is alot of work in alot of places to just keep things alive...not to mention the expenses and time factor involved.

Lastly just to clarify things to do with this site...well I do all the moderating alone plus the pms and all questions and answers....so if there is something wrong on this site it is me who made it. I have a webman to do the technical aspects but all content and daily admin of the site is up to me. Howard will be helping in a limited way one day but he is a busier person than anyone else I know. Nev is not one for public life or cyberspace...and due to family committments is happy to do some work on plants but nothing else.So I am afraid you are all dealing with Shantibaba...whether you like it or not.

All the best now off to Bologna for a 3 day fair....take care
Click to expand...
 
C21H30O2

C21H30O2

I have ridden the mighty sandworm.
Veteran
Sam_Skunkman said:
Well, Nevilles Haze is derived from Original Haze matierials I gave Neville in 1980's, not 1969, but it is not a pure Haze, it has been crossed with the NL line.
So you are comparing apples and oranges..
Take FD Original Haze and make a cross with your favorite female clone and you will be surprised how good it is. Often much better then either parent.

Also I have suggested many times that Original Haze is "breeding material" not great commercial growing materials, but you seem to only notice what you want to notice. It is the only pure Original Haze available.

Bottom line is if you want an almost Haze line that is stong and popular get Nevilles Haze, SSH, Kali Mist, Sage, or a dozen other Haze Hybrids that mostly used my Original Haze as a parent, directly or through a Haze Hybrid based on my Haze genetics available from 1976 from me.

If you want pure Sativa blood to use for breeding then remember that all of the above are Haze hybrids only and most used Indica bloodlines to some degree.

"We're talking about the Original Haze from The Flying Dutchmen, which doesnt list its flowering times nearly at 26 weeks"

What is the 26 weeks about? I have grown Haze a lot, but 26 weeks? WTF??

-SamS
Click to expand...
California heirloom lines of pure haze have many phenos that will flower for over 26 weeks. these individuals are sometimes known to "never stop flowering" and are often discarded due to their flowering time but shouldn't be... extremely psychedelic individuals can be found in this gene pool.
 
R

Resingrower

Member
Sam your posts seem to be most clear and w/o nitpicking details to death...bravo sir, ? Does the T in T*hazexSkunk refer to the Thai used in the NL5 and other Nl lines and if so/not what other crosses was it used in?
 
R

Resingrower

Member
Anatomic please dont tell me you prefer a Kush to a Haze line ? There are many reasons its a bigger topic but not b/c of the quality of high...probably b/c of the complex growing conditions of Haze vs the simplicity of kush
 
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G

Guest

C21H30O2 said:
California heirloom lines of pure haze have many phenos that will flower for over 26 weeks. these individuals are sometimes known to "never stop flowering" and are often discarded due to their flowering time but shouldn't be... extremely psychedelic individuals can be found in this gene pool.
Click to expand...
This is a typical response you can find throughout the forums and these words and similar have been echoed throughout the years as well. But there is little hard evidence to substantiate these claims, however privelant they may be. I would like the oppurtunity to grow one of these 'heirloom' Haze vareitys we all hear/read so much about personally. If it was indeed as good has been stated, I would certainly post my honest assessment on it. So far the Haze hybrids Ive worked with were good, but not the day enders/ruiners/lord of all marijuana varietys we have all grown accustomed to reading about on the forums.


I have certainly smoked "schwagg" as some of you would call it that had LSD like qualities(low doses of LSD that is). They were Mexican lines, but the effect of the cannabis was what made it so special.

So many groweres and members of the forum place emphasis on a how variety looks. I can tell you first hand, that nice looking varietys do not mean they smoke nice. And you can have exceptionally aesthetically pleasing varietys that do not even come close to varietys most would consider "schwagg" by appearance but which have devestating effects.

Ive got the utmost respect for the guys who came before us, especially guys like Sam who are legends in the industry. However I can only post my own experiences and ask questions I find relavent. I mean no disrespect to anyone, or any company. But as a consumer, potsmen and somebody who takes this all very seriously there are alot of questions that do not seem to get asked, which are truely hitting at the heart of the issue(s). Some people dont ask the important questions because they are newer members, others are just ignorant as to entire story/facts around the varietys they discuss and others have an agenda for whatever reason. There are some members on the forums who take this as equally serious as I do, but the truth is from my stand point these members are few and far between.

The oppurtunity to discuss things with Sam personally is invaluable. We should all show great respect to Sam and realize what he has accomplished/meant to the marijuana industry.
 
G

Guest

Resingrower said:
Anatomic please dont tell me you prefer a Kush to a Haze line ? There are many reasons its a bigger topic but not b/c of the quality of high...probably b/c of the complex growing conditions of Haze vs the simplicity of kush
Click to expand...
lol, I never said anything of the sort Resingrower.


One of the main reasons the Kush is so highly reguarded is because its good. And ofcourse they are easier to deal with then some of the Haze lines, but that begs the question. There are several sativa fanatics online, and have been for many years. We have thousands, if not 10s of thousands of growers who participate in the various forums. What I notice is a lack of grow reports on the Original Haze, even though you see consistant post on how good the marijuana is. Rarely do we see actual grow reports, which if validating the description of these lines would surely bring more growers into the picture.

That has not been the case, and I find it quite interesting to be honest. In my experiences the Hazes are good, even quite good. But none have measured up to the descriptions we hear/read about on the forums. And there is a void of reliable members past and present who have grown these varietys and reported their findings.


My position is not that Haze is better then Kush, or vice versa. Its just interesting to note the reputation Original Haze has, yet there is a lack of growers/reports to authenticate the numerous characterizations of high associated with Original Haze.
 
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joaquin386

joaquin386

Active member
And I am wondering Sam if the stock from seedsman is originally from you as well and if you would recommened it personally to buy stuff from there.
 
Sam_Skunkman

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
AnatomiclySound,
"First things first, you should be aware I have alot of respect for you. But I have to say that Ive got first hand knowledge from those involved at MNS that contradict your story of giving Neville the seeds that ultimately went into the Nevilles Haze. They can and do trace their haze stock back to 1969 and I have absolutely no reason to doubt their words."
"Originally Posted by shantibaba :Nh is made from Haze C male which is made by two pure haze parents from 1969....then the female side of NH is made from Haze A combined to NL5 or NL5Haze A where Haze A was also made by two pure Haze parents also from 1969"

You do not have first hand anything as none of the people at MNSeeds were even around when I showed Neville his first Original Haze, he had never seen it before, he told me so, it was in 84, and Shantibaba was not even in Holland. I like Shantibaba and he just does not know the facts because he was not here, and/or he has been misled by others.
As for anyone (if I got this right) implying that Original Haze clones from 1969 are used, and alive, that is plain insane, there are no Cannabis clones from 1969, that is for sure. But maybe he meant seeds from 1969? And not grown until the 80's? To be honest I do not know, except the only Original Haze seeds sold prior to the 80's were mine, That I made after 1976. One way or another something is not correct about the 1969 date, and that is what you are going on. As far as I know all Nevilles work with Haze was from Original Haze he got from me, thats what he told me anyway, back in the 80's.

-SamS
 
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G

Guest

Sam_Skunkman said:
AnatomiclySound,
"
You do not have first hand anything as none of the people at MNSeeds were even around when I showed Neville his first Original Haze, he had never seen it before, he told me so, it was in 84, and Shantibaba was not even in Holland. I like Shantibaba and he just does not know the facts because he was not here, and/or he has been misled by others.
As for anyone (if I got this right) implying that Original Haze clones from 1969 are used, and alive, that is plain insane, there are no Cannabis clones from 1969, that is for sure. But maybe he meant seeds from 1969? And not grown until the 80's? To be honest I do not know, except the only Original Haze seeds sold prior to the 80's were mine, That I made after 1976. One way or another something is not correct about the 1969 date, and that is what you are going on. As far as I know all Nevilles work with Haze was from Original Haze he got from me, thats what he told me anyway, back in the 80's.

-SamS
Click to expand...
Hi Sam,
Yes Im aware of your position on this Sam, but as I said I have no reason to doubt the words of the MNS crew. Shantibaba is one of the most outstanding gentleman in the industry. And as far as the 1969 lines, I do believe the plants in question were pulled from Seed not clone. And to my knowledge,(dont quote me on this) there are backup seeds from the same stock in case anything major were to happen.
 
Sam_Skunkman

Sam_Skunkman

"RESIN BREEDER"
Moderator
Veteran
joaquin386
"And I am wondering Sam if the stock from seedsman is originally from you"

I do not know what any seed seller sells, ask them if it is my varieties or if I made the seeds.
Remember I suggest real Original Haze for breeding, not commercial crops, you may be lucky and find a real keeper for production, but the odds are low. Just try and cross the best you find X your favorite varieties, and you will find lots of keepers.

-SamS
 
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