Future of Extraction, MIPs?

This technology has been around for a while so Im wondering when someone is going to use it to extract purified THC.

MIPs is molecular imprinted polymers. The jist of it is that a purified THC molecule could be used as the imprint template to a partnered molecular polymer bead that could hold many imprints. The template is taken out leaving the bead ready to take on the next available THC molecule it attracts to its available molecular specific pocket.

Heres the wiki on it, kinda brief and sparse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecular_imprinted_polymer

Heres a company that uses them for other drugs and explains it better.
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/Area_of...tography/Sample_Preparation/SPE/supelMIP.html

Heres a pdf that shows wheres the science of MIPs is going by creating molecular compounds of disimilar materials into unique molecular structures. What other molecule would you add to THC in an extract if you could?
http://www.mrs.org/s_mrs/bin.asp?CID=2538&DID=108738&DOC=FILE.PDF

Im also wondering what kind of solvent/wash technique you could use that would leave it in the bead so you could extract it later.

analytical technique, not preparative.


aldrich doesnt doesnt do shit with drugs, except sell them. they are a chemical/lab supply company.

It would take at least a kilo of that stuff to make 1 gram of purified thc. that would cost at least a grand, and you wouldnt be able to do it anyway because you would need a DEA license (not just a simple license to buy shit like piperonal and Ac2O, but a "I am doing research on THC" license), or access to a bunch of analytical instruments, materials, and lab space if you tried to make it yourself. (not to mention a phd in polymer chemistry/materials science)

besides, i dont even think this would work on a fundamental level. THC is a radical sponge (look at the similarities between THC and BHT), and if you need your polymerization to be anything but a radical polymerization, youve just increased your cost a shitload.


people are already selling supercritical extracts in dispenseries down in california.

On a large scale, solid phase separation techniques are avoided at all costs. distillation and recrystallization are the most commonly used techniques in the chemical industry. silica gel columns must be used every once in a while, but industry columns are usually 20 feet tall, require around 400 kilograms of silica gel, and can usually only purify 1 kg.


great though if you want to determine the mass of a protein or alkaloid in biological sample (which is usually extremely small, requires ridiculous precision, very small loss, and high sensitivity)



if you really want, you can buy a supercritical CO2 batch extraction system for around 10,000 bucks. its actually not that bad, and well within the budget of caregivers.

I think you missed the point.

how useful would that be why not just use budder

gordonliu,
I sent you a PM last week but you did not answer.
Where do they sell supercriticaly extracted extract?
Which buyers club? Is it better then other extraction methods? What is better? strength, potency, taste, yield, cost, THC percentage??

I saw this done ten years ago but did not have any chance to try the product produced as it was done by professionals that would not share any as they are afraid to lose their license to do research. It did work.

-SamS

@ skunkman:

I heard about an encounter with a vendor who was selling it. the guy who smoked it (whom I know to be extremely knowledgeable about all things cannabis)

said this:

"It was definitely the best extract I ever smoked. cleaner than any BHO. The vendor said it was totally pure and extracted with water. he wanted to sell it for 100 a gram"

Like I said, this guy knows what hes talking about. He did not get convinced that he was smoking some gnarly oil when in reality it was FMCD or bubble of any kind. We have all smoked FMCD and he knows what he is talking about. also 100 a gram wholesale price is about as expensive as oil gets.

secondly: water is used as a solvent in supercritical CO2 extractions. all that you would need to do to remove the water from the final product is lyopholyze it (freeze dry)

@verite: it seems as though my first post on this thread essentially slowed it down and kind of killed it. for that I apologize

I will agree whole heartedly that my post was also vastly off topic and went into way too much detail on information that was not requested. and so I again apologize

If I were to reversibly bind a few molecules to the monomer used in the polymerization, I would probably just bind the range of cannabinoids. I would probably also make another batch with only THC, so that I could get all the cannabinoids, and also just THC.

in terms of wash, and removal of the analyte:

run a solution containing your analyte and impurities in the appropriate solvent. for a non-polar organic solid phase, your probably gonna want to stick with slightly polar organic solvents like ethyl acetate.

you would then probably wash the column with a gradient of solvents ranging from as non-polar as possible to very polar, like acetonitrile. this would remove everything from non-polar to polar, and leave only what would be stuck in the matrix.

you would then use some other ligand or a host complex (LIKE, but not, a crown ether) to remove the analyte by an exchange. another possibility is that you use a solvent that will solvate the analyte more than than the host complex in the solid phase.

gordonliu,
The supercritical I saw had nothing to do with water. Liquid CO2 was the solvent not water. Any water would of just frozen and been useless as a solvent. infact the best results were from materials that were first dried with a desiccator to remove all moisture (water).

I wish you would of tried it or at least knew which buyers club it came from. Otherwise it is close to a cultural myth. If you can find out the source please PM me.

Also you do not need to worry about cleaning up any THC from a Cannabinoids mix extracted with MIP's because most Cannabis grown in the USA only has THC with very little to none of the other 65 Cannabinoids. That is if MIP's even work on THC or if they are practical in terms of cost and efficiency.
-SamS

Its all good Gordon no apologies needed. I hope the mips thing works out for THC extraction since its the only method I know that addresses purity down to the molecular level. Everything else is still washing of whole materials.

Verite said:

I hope the mips thing works out for THC extraction since its the only method I know that addresses purity down to the molecular level. Everything else is still washing of whole materials.

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Sounds good until you realize that the goal should not be pure THC, Pure 100% THC is not as good as an equal weight of resin that is only 50% THC.
So why go through all the trouble to end up with less weight that is less potent? Wise up.....

-SamS

Verite said:

Heres a pdf that shows wheres the science of MIPs is going by creating molecular compounds of disimilar materials into unique molecular structures. What other molecule would you add to THC in an extract if you could?
http://www.mrs.org/s_mrs/bin.asp?CID=2538&DID=108738&DOC=FILE.PDF .

Click to expand...

One could add one of the differnt canabinols and see what effekt on the high, but i don´t think that you get high of just on molecule

I dont think that this metode is going to be the future of extraction not fore smoking,

Sam_Skunkman said:

Sounds good until you realize that the goal should not be pure THC, Pure 100% THC is not as good as an equal weight of resin that is only 50% THC.
So why go through all the trouble to end up with less weight that is less potent? Wise up.....

-SamS

Click to expand...

When you can design a mip to profile any one of the many THC compounds why wouldnt you go thru the trouble? Pretty narrow thought range there when the method could design a tailored extract of THC compounds.

Good thought

Good thought

Verite said:

When you can design a mip to profile any one of the many THC compounds why wouldnt you go thru the trouble? Pretty narrow thought range there when the method could design a tailored extract of THC compounds.

Click to expand...

I enjoy looking at is as combining a custom made tincture of THC compounds, i think it might be an interesting idea in regards to MMJ. . . I noticed that Gordon mentioned some dispensaries selling supercritical extracts. I dont have the knowledge that you seem to, but through MIPS could one create a synthesis of THC compounds that could help certain ailments? Is it simply not practical and would make more sense to just utilize the herb in its native form or through "normal" extraction methods?

Is the only way to get a definite answer on the subject to create a custom extract through MIPS and then test it on patients with certain dis-eases?

Im just trying to think of the most beneficial uses for this extreme method of extraction. In my mind if it can enhance a patients life enough to make them want to live, it is certainly worth all costs. Just as long as the insurance covers it and it doesnt come out of pocket. . . . . . .



anyhow, cool thread verite, thanks for spreading the knowledge. . . and thank you gordon for giving us the technical info! =)



infinite Love
unika

Verite said:

When you can design a mip to profile any one of the many THC compounds why wouldnt you go thru the trouble? Pretty narrow thought range there when the method could design a tailored extract of THC compounds.

Click to expand...

OK, say you want to do this, start with the 66 Cannabinoids then the say 150 terpenoids, then the 23 flavonoids, and then the rest of the even more compounds found in herbal Cannabis. If you isolate each one try it then start combining two of the 234 X 233 = 54,522 then three X 232= 12,649,104 as you can see the posibilities are limitless and this is not with every compound.
Just identifying each of the compounds, obtaining samples, and understanding the subjective effects of each alone is a huge undertaking and that is for just 234 compounds. To understand each combination will take years and years and years.
Unless you do this first how could you ever design a tailored extract of THC compounds? First you need to understand what each one does alone, or am I missing something?

-SamS

.. am I missing something?

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Perhaps a desire to see where science can take marijuana.

I can guarantee that you are wrong about that.
I was concerned about the amount of work needed to do MIP's in any meaningfull way.
I have tried pure THC, CBD, CBG, THCV, CBN, as well as a dozen pure Terpenoids, and then tried them in combo, it cost me over $10,000 to get all the materials to try them each in a Volcano. And you think I am missing a desire to see where science can take Marijuana?
Sorry if I am rude, but what have you done?

-SamS

please be rude to this one sam, he deserves it.

Sam_Skunkman said:

I can guarantee that you are wrong about that.
I was concerned about the amount of work needed to do MIP's in any meaningfull way.
I have tried pure THC, CBD, CBG, THCV, CBN, as well as a dozen pure Terpenoids, and then tried them in combo, it cost me over $10,000 to get all the materials to try them each in a Volcano. And you think I am missing a desire to see where science can take Marijuana?
Sorry if I am rude, but what have you done?

-SamS

Click to expand...

Thats way cool. I wish I had the funds to do something like that. Looking forward to the thread on it and some nice pics. Peace.

I am pretty sure that there used to be a company over in the netherlands that would supply "pure" (most likely nothing above 99.0% as it is VERY difficult to separate the cannabinoids using conventional preparative techniques like distillation) THC, CBD, CBN, etc in gram quantities.

Im pretty sure the thread I am talking about was on overgrow circa 2004.

Yes, in the Netherlands you can buy Cannabinoids legally, except for THC.
And without pure THC the work is impossible to do.
-SamS

It appears some companies are taking this kind of science to the next level.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=1345597