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"Curing" Resin - The Next Wave? (& Cherniak's new pamphlet)

Butte

Active member
Veteran
This thread is to discuss the ideas presented in Cherniak’s new pamphlet HASHISH - MAKING and CURING While I was a bit hesitant to “reveal” essentially the only piece of new information Cherniak presents, I found the same info on his website here (which is a mess, btw; horrible layout, no organization, and dead links everywhere).

So, here are a couple direct quotes to get the conversation rolling:

“...the quality of hashish is determined purely by its genetic background.”

“...it becomes clearer that heavy presses with high temperatures are not needed any more if the resin is well cured.”

“Our research has shown that at a stable temperature of 37 degrees C, it still takes about 3 months for most resins to mature.”

“Super quality hashish needs to be cured slowly (with a warm temperature) over a period of at least 3 months. During this time it should be kept in an enclosed container. This container should be air tight. Then it must be opened approximately every three days to prevent mustiness from starting). This is a very safe way to watch and see the hashish resin merge into a beautifully condensed harvest. (Dough style material)

"Very little hashish resin can be extracted from plants and smoked (very happily) within a month of creating.
Even marijuana buds and vegetative parts like only the calyxes should be cured for several weeks as well, in lower temperatures.
Curing resin into the state that it would be called a perfect ball of hashish, on the contrary requires warmer temperatures.
Most of the time when people winning the resin from the dried plants the humidity in the extracted material is sufficient for this curing to function properly.
It is mostly recommended that the resin be stored during this part of the process in an air tight enviroment like a sealable glass jar, or any sealable container.
When storing the fresh resin it must be approximately 50% dry and placed in an air tight environment like a sealable glass jar, or a vacuum sealed container or seal pressed bags but not zip lock bag (or any other kind of plastic bags) s which do not really seal to the degree that we are suggesting here and now, especially the zip-locks that are not for food."

"When Nederlandishe Polm will still easily crumble after having been in a warm oven for a few months then it still is not ready to be pressed into anything like the temple balls you see in the photos in this book.
After three months the resin has changed properties and you can basically form it into balls by hand. This material already has the properties of flowery hashish. This material can still be processed by rubbing and or pressing into darker hashish varieties. Some genetics however are so oily that they can be rolled into your hands right away, into dark oily temple balls like those that you see on the front cover of this book, without the rubbing or pressing.
This again is related to its genetics because the famous hashish varieties of the world are what they are, not because of the region that they come from nor because of climate, soil and growing method.
The quality of all hashish is determined purely by the genetics. All the genetics of the great hashishs that we have known and enjoyed are still being grown all around the world.”


So, basically, what I want to discuss is what people feel this is actually doing to the kief? It’s always been my impression that heat degrades cannibinoids, so his technique seems counter intuitive. I also have kief that’s well over a year old and it feels, smokes, and handles the same as the day I tumbled it.

Let’s hear your opinions…

- Butte
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
i have had the same experience with pollinator hash, when freshly made it was very tickly in the throat and no fun to smoke at all. after a year i tried the stuff again and was blown away, the tickly dry stuff had turned into real amazing tasting and hitting gourmet hash, it reminded me of some of the finest exotic hashes i ever smoked. i couldn't believe it was the same stuff. funnily enough i don't notice the same thing from bubble, i have some 73u ww bubble hash which is a year old and it is not nicer now then it was fresh. it is smoother now on the throat but the taste is less. while the pollinator powder only really became tasty after a long cure.
 

Chiefsmokingbud

Slap-A-Ho tribe
Veteran
Funny he doesn't go into the "why" or "what happens" during a hash cure. I'd like to know what transforms into what or how it becomes smoother etc.
 
G

Guest

thanks for sharing mate
i got a meesly 2.3 grams of bubble from a run yesterday
sealed in container in cupboard
atm its a real brown/black coluor..
i might just leave it in there for some time and see wat the diff is
take care
bil
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
if you made it yesterday it must still be wet no? you want to crumble it up and let it dry on a plate. if you pack it air tight in one lump when its freshly made you run a great risk of mold growing from inside the lump.
 

Butte

Active member
Veteran
Chiefsmokingbud said:
Funny he doesn't go into the "why" or "what happens" during a hash cure. I'd like to know what transforms into what or how it becomes smoother etc.

Exactly what I'm interested in. In my experience the kief takes on a more reddish to brown hue, but doesn't seem to change that much. I guess I'll have to go try some now and see! :smoke:

...also, I don't see how the chlorophyl would "work it's self out over time with pollinator hash"?
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
yes it does, just like it works it's self out of the buds with curing time. you know when leaves get old and turn brown, well thats the chlorophil disolving. same with weed, starts off green and becomes goldn or brown or yellow.
 

Butte

Active member
Veteran
Well, the aged kief didn't roll into a ball in my hand easily and took a couple pressings to hold together really well. the smell is a bit "spicier" than I remember and the taste is definitely different. It still made my nose tickle, though. The original input was a combination of AfWreck and Green Crack, neither of which I can detect in smell at this point. Also, it did have a much redder color to it than before.

I'm sliding a chunk to someone who had smoked that great hash back in the 70's and I'll have him get back to us if it is similar or not...
 
Butte said:
Exactly what I'm interested in. In my experience the kief takes on a more reddish to brown hue, but doesn't seem to change that much. I guess I'll have to go try some now and see! :smoke:

...also, I don't see how the chlorophyl would "work it's self out over time with pollinator hash"?

Yeah, it's possible....you see, everything has a half-life....which is a factor in which a compound will degrade to 50% over a certain period of time. Then it will degrade another 50% over that same period and so on and so on. Everything has a different half life, though.

Since trichomes are a non-polar(nonwater soluble) resinous type compound...the half life is much less that the polar(water soluble) chlorophyll compound half-life.....which means it is indeed possible for the chlorophyll to degrade itself out of the trichome mix.
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
Butte i'm no expert in the field of hash. it's just what i experienced. i was really rather amazed by the change that occurred. this stuff had been stashed for at least a year before i discovered what had happened. it was packed in bags inside Tupperware, no heat , no pressing. not until i realized how nice it had become at which time i would play with small amounts before smoking it as i found that it tasted even more like old time Kashmir or some stuff like that. the trim the pollinator stuff was made from was a combo of WW and WWA trim, from clones. both very resinous strains, excellent smoke quality.
 

Dkgrower

Active member
Veteran
The dry seive pollen hash I make is with well cured outdoor weed minimum 6 months and bone dry. I youse a metal box that i put the weed into at shake it, I tap with my finger on the sides so all plant material drops down, then I collect the resin with my finger and with a knife remove it onto a pice of paper, It takes forever and I make abouth 0.5 gram pr 10 min abouth a joint. I hand rub the pollen yousing spit and work it untill it gets harder and consolidates, max 2 min or you have to much plant material in your seive

The result is hashish that tast like the pollen from marokko we get here in dk, the first shakes are similar to high grade marko an add bonus is knowing that you dont support gangsters and that your smoke is organic is a super bonus

I tryed many metods but allways fall back on my metalbox dry seiv style, only using well cured weed.


Dkgrower
 
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Butte

Active member
Veteran
TrichomusCaesar said:
Yeah, it's possible....you see, everything has a half-life....which is a factor in which a compound will degrade to 50% over a certain period of time. Then it will degrade another 50% over that same period and so on and so on. Everything has a different half life, though.

Since trichomes are a non-polar(nonwater soluble) resinous type compound...the half life is much less that the polar(water soluble) chlorophyll compound half-life.....which means it is indeed possible for the chlorophyll to degrade itself out of the trichome mix.

Wait, wait, wait...isn't kief supposed to be resin only? I can see how that would happen to bud, but he's stating changes happen to the resin. Also, don't you have that backwards a bit? If trichomes half life is shorter than chlorophyll’s would that not mean it degrades at a faster rate? I'm not disagreeing with everyone that the chlorophyll does seem to pale out of herb, I just want to talk about nice, pure kief.

So to pull this back on track...what do people think of the heat treatment? That was where I started this thread and would like to bring it back. I will certainly concede that the kief I had stored has certainly changed to a spicier, redder product. Qualitatively what this means for the high and smoke, I'm not sure yet. Before I go and cook up a bunch of kief, I want to understand what's happening to the make-up of the resins. Is it the same if it has been pressed to one degree or another (i.e. less oxidation potential)?

I thought I heard somewhere talk of resin heads forming a ‘protective shell’ as the resin dries out...does this ring a bell to anyone?

- Butte
 

gaiusmarius

me
Veteran
remember i was specifically talking about pollinator hash made from trim. this does indeed have plant material in it. you would need to triple sift it to get most of the plant material out. Sam Skunkman stated that he cures his hash making material first for 6 months before even making his hash with it. but like i said i'm no expert on hash making and all it's secrets, of which there are many.

cool thread, i also wonder what the heat and pressure thing is all about.
 
Butte said:
Wait, wait, wait...isn't kief supposed to be resin only? I can see how that would happen to bud, but he's stating changes happen to the resin. Also, don't you have that backwards a bit? If trichomes half life is shorter than chlorophyll’s would that not mean it degrades at a faster rate? I'm not disagreeing with everyone that the chlorophyll does seem to pale out of herb, I just want to talk about nice, pure kief.

- Butte

Ya...my mistake, switch the half-lives around. With most methods of removing trichs from the bud, you do get miniscule amounts of plant matter than contains chlorophyll....At least that's what I notice when I dry seive my herbs over the screen.

I just don't understand what there is to gain from cooking hash for three months.
 
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trichomefarmer

re-loading
Veteran
Hmm how many here have met mr. Cherniak?

“...the quality of hashish is determined purely by its genetic background.”

“...it becomes clearer that heavy presses with high temperatures are not needed any more if the resin is well cured.”

“Our research has shown that at a stable temperature of 37 degrees C, it still takes about 3 months for most resins to mature.”


I have several times and i find it hard to take anything said by L.C. seriously.
'hey you wanna try some afghan?, do you have a pen? we can make a tinfoil pipe.' and yes he made a tinfoil pipe and smoked his afghan. I almost cried.
:yoinks:
 
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dozer

Member
Heat will increase bacteria activity. Bacteria can be an important factor curing weed, I guess it might have some influence in hash curing too. Temperatures above 32ºC and high humidity will provide a good environment for bacteria to do their job and the heat will keep mold away. I've tried "sweat" and fermentation cure with weed and it is really fast. Doing a 2-5 day cure right after harvest at 32ºC+ in a sealed container (or almost sealed, to retain humidity) and then a two week dry around 20ºC, ventilated and at low humidity gives a cured, gold yellow to brown colored weed. if it stays more than 5 days curing like this the taste and smell is simillar to what you get with water cure, almost no taste and no smell, just burned celulose. No clorophil but no terpenes either.

I don't know what this would do to hash but I think 3 month at 37ºC is way too much, I bet it will decompose a lot. I would try it for a week or two. A month at max and see what comes out of it.

Anyway some of mr. Cherniak quotations don't seem entirely correct, like “...the quality of hashish is determined purely by its genetic background.”. It's more like the hashish potential is determined by genetics but its final quality has to do with a lot other factors, the way the plants are grown, the extraction technique, the way the weed and hash is cured and a lot other things.

I'm no hash expert either so just my 2 eurocents... :)

.
 

Chiefsmokingbud

Slap-A-Ho tribe
Veteran
All i wanna know is what happens during the "curing". He can talk till he's blue in the face about how good "cured" hash is and that doesn't mean squat to me unless what happens in the process can be explained. Ie. This transforms into that, this molecule weakens and binds with x etc lol.

I've had kief sitting in an airtight container for almost 4 months. It did turn darker which i thought was oxidation...........but did it smoke better? Not that i noticed.
 

Butte

Active member
Veteran
Butte (at the start of this thread) said:
So, basically, what I want to discuss is what people feel this is actually doing to the kief? It’s always been my impression that heat degrades cannibinoids, so his technique seems counter intuitive. I also have kief that’s well over a year old and it feels, smokes, and handles the same as the day I tumbled it. - Butte

I stand behind the chief waiting for peeps to come forward with their "cured resin" stories while I run some tests...
 

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