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Deficiencies or Overferting?

Old Soul

Old Soul

Active member
Veteran
Within the last week or so one of my plants has started to look not so pretty. It is under a 600w using PBP and Liquid Karma, temps are probably in the low to mid seventies, using coco for a medium. This is my second run with this batch of coco but the plants before this were completely healthy throughout the grow. I did reuse the grow bags and I was too lazy to clean them off first. The buds keep getting fatter but I just do not like the looks of the leaves. They are about week 7 and have about 3 to go. I have cut back the nutes to about 15ml/gal of PBP and 10ml/gal of Liquid Karma. I have never tested the PH since I have been using PBP. Any help would be appreciated. Sorry for the ramble.




 
G

Guest

Looks to me like potassium.....

some of the leaves show little brown tips on the margins...

The tips also brown with potassium def too....

I suspect its really a low ph problem...
 
Old Soul

Old Soul

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MTF-Sandman,

I had a feeling but I needed an expert opinion to confirm. Thanks for your help.

Peace

Old Soul
 
G

Guest

Flushing a potassium def plant will make it worse....

Old soul look at the leaves....

The little serration tips along the sides are brown....


this is the classic indication of k def.....


Having too little of Potassium in your plants causes the plants leaves to show retarded growth and show a scorched tip and edges around the leaves. Plants may stretch and your branches can be easily broken or weak. Don’t get this deficiency confused with iron, because it almost acts like iron but to tell the difference in the two is: for potassium the tips of the leaves curl and the edges burn and die. Older leaves may show a red color and leaves could curl upwards. Dead patches (Necrosis) can happen on the margins of larger fan leaves thus, the leaves will eventually die off and turn brown. The Older leaves will show different patches of color (mottle) and turn yellow between the veins, following by whole leaves that turn dark yellow and die. The plants overall growth slows down, mostly when they are in vegetative stage. To little amount of potassium also slows the growth of buds during flowering stages. Dark edges will appear around the edges of the leaf when the deficiency is starting to happen. When your Relative humidity is low, you can almost bet your going to soon get a potassium deficiency from your plants perspiration.
Potassium can get poorly absorbed when having too much Calcium or ammonium nitrogen, and maybe cold weather. Having to much sodium (Na) causes potassium to be displaced. SO keep those in mind… Parts affected by a Potassium Deficiency are: older leaves and leaf margins.
 
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Old Soul

Old Soul

Active member
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Hey OOglebird,

So you think I need to up the nutes? If flushing is gonna make it worse, what should I do? Thanks in advance.

Old Soul
 
G

Guest

I have cut back the nutes to about 15ml/gal of PBP and 10ml/gal of Liquid Karma. I have never tested the PH since I have been using PBP.

I think you need to check your ph....
 
Old Soul

Old Soul

Active member
Veteran
Whoa, somehow I missed that whole bottom part of your response when I posted. I know the humidity is very low here and I did see perspiration on the leaves. It was trippin me out because I do not foliar feed and I know I wasn't getting that crazy when I was feeding them. What is an easy, cheap way to raise the humitdity? I am growing in a small cabinet.

Peace

Old Soul
 
Old Soul

Old Soul

Active member
Veteran
A friend of mine has been growing for 10 plus years. He has been growing in coco for at least 5 years. He uses PBP and Liquid Karma and has never checked his ph with no problems whatsoever. This is my 6th run with the PBP and these are the first problems I have seen. After rereading the whole thing about the deficiency, I reall think it is the humidity messing things up as I have never dealt with the dry weather I have where I am living now.

Any ideas how I can raise the humidity cheaply and easily without using up much space?

Old Soul
 
G

Guest

That info came from stitch not all of which I subscribe to....

I would test your runoff...

Blindly assuming your ph is ok is just a bad idea....

Especially since you reused some coco....
 
Playaction

Playaction

Member
Many users with the same PBP Issues

Many users with the same PBP Issues

WOW....i'm seeing this time and time again with PBP users... including myself.
check out these other posts of PBP users... same type of issues... What could it be?

I think the label recommended nute dosage is extremely high. This in turn causes all kind of issues... salt build ups...ph issues and lockout. I use PBP Soil, LK, and just recently after my problem began I started using cal/mag and sugardaddy. Plants seem to be recovering and new growth looks healthy.

Using the PBP and LK I saw these same issues as mentioned in this post and the other links below... Plants where looking great and I started using the recommended dosage for aggressive flowering... 45ml/gal or pbp 15ml/gal of lk... this caused ph to drop very low around 3.5-4... ppms were about 2200..had to add a ton of ph up to reach 6.0 in coco/hydroton. In Retrospect.. i'd use much lower strenghts of nutes along low strengths of supplements. In the end i'm still not sure if its actually nute burn or a deficiency, but I do think the high dosage recommendation are to much for a less that PERFECT environment.


http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=49086&highlight=pbp
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - HELP!!! Moz, can't figure out WTF is goin on

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=48096&page=2&pp=15&highlight=pbp+yellow
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - need some advice please guys...

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=857271#post857271
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - redux: Advanced Mg defiency?

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=48468&highlight=pbp
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - Am I burning my kids?

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=48885&highlight=pbp
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - 5 weeks in DWC under 240W and only 6" tall! Burn or Deficiency?

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=25347&highlight=pbp+yellow
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - Magnesium Defeciency???? Need Help
 
Playaction

Playaction

Member
I think the Botanicare line is GREAT. But less is more

Your recipe sounds perfect Sandman

I'm running 12ml/gal PBP (soil/coco version), 5ml LK, 4ml CM for my coco SOG at the moment and they're just loving it...no problems at all with PBP over here
Click to expand...
 
MTF-Sandman

MTF-Sandman

OG Refugee
Veteran
I saw the K def looking symptoms OOglebird...but since the tips are burnt, and the leaves are curling up like that it really looks like a nute lockout causing the K uptake problems...

I'm running 12ml/gal PBP (soil/coco version), 5ml LK, 4ml CM for my coco SOG at the moment and they're just loving it...no problems at all with PBP over here :confused: Maybe the folks in those links had old nutes?

Edit: Stealth edit was too slow :pointlaug
 
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SEEDYNONO

SEEDYNONO

Active member
Veteran
old nutes is a problem good point mtf.. i was thinking about this for pbp users.. is there a way to determine age of nutes from the origin with the changes that were made with the formulations? wonder if anyone has some kind of timeline of when exactly aa released those different formulations.

i feel like some shops that don't get huge amounts of business may stand a lot to gain from selling older nutes that they've kept on the shelves.. if there is no specific replacement/discount model from aa to stores to give them incentive to chuck their old stock that we know of.. ya know? also i noticed people don't always expect a sealed product.. new bottles come with seals under the cap! don't buy the bottle if its seal is open! wondered about any kind of sketchy diluting schemes they could try to pull off too.. haha yeah kind of out there but could happen i suppose. hell i also wonder about transportation/storage side of things with nutes.. would it be possible that bottles could be exposed to 80 degree temps? seems like it could be a problem in some cases

just make sure you are getting the newest formulations and that they are sealed and you should be good for about a year i never trust them much after that even though they say they could last 2 years or something. but think about when you have a bottle sitting half full that you are opening and using small amounts from every day or few days.. a lot of air gets exposed to the nutes and gets changed out with fresh air routinely. seems like that could affect longevity? am i wrong on that one?

i don't know.. man i just smoked 5 phenos of flo i am rambling haha.
 
H

highbrid1

Member
ive been using pbp soil, lq, sweet and calmag for a while now and have found it to be a good product. as far as the problems, i believe them to be strain dependent- some strains handle it well at 30mg a gallon and some get burned. overall, i have to agree that it is a tricky product. that being said, once you get a strain dialed in, there is no better overall product out there.

"In the end i'm still not sure if its actually nute burn or a deficiency"

arent they reall the same thing- salt build up causes lockout which causes defieicency. Its all about finding the right dosage for the plant.

Plants are like people, some have larger appetites than others. The only problem is that they cant tell you what they want. This must be learned through trial and error if no other sourse is available.
 
Playaction

Playaction

Member
Plants are like people, some have larger appetites than others. The only problem is that they cant tell you what they want. This must be learned through trial and error if no other sourse is available.
Click to expand...

nice analogy!
.
i say they do tell us what they want. The fun is learning and figuring them out and having a nice reward for success.
 
TNJed

TNJed

Member
Hey folks! I just want to add my vote to the less is more thing with PBP. I run an aeroponic system that continually mists my plants (that are about 2.5 to 3 ft tall at the end of stretch). With this scenario I have found that, after adding about 5 ml/gal of LK and 5-7 ml/gal PB Original, I only need to add 3 or 4 ml/gal of PBP. If I add much more I start to get signs of overdose and lockout(BIG TIME!). This is with a ph of around 5.6-5.9, water temps. averaging around 72-73f.(using Hydroguard and Hygrozyme to control bad stuff!), ambient air temps at around 74f. and humidity around 40%(day) and 60%(night), very good ventilation as well.
 
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