400w hps + 400w mh in a c22!

well i have a c22 cab with a 400w hps hortilux light in it and i'm thinking of adding more light and a ridiculous air cooling system. i've had success with the 400 hps alone but i desire more in terms of bud mass.. density.. node spacing.. fully finished high. i know some people have had great success with a 600w hps and 6 inch vortex fans.. and i've seen people use up near 1000w in a c22 with hps + supplemental fluoro lighting (being tubes or spirals). so why would it not be possible to use a 400w hps right next to a 400w mh? there has to be a way to cool that properly and arrange the bulbs for good dispersion and coverage.. and keep them close enough to the canopy (likely scrog or lst grow).. i'm working on some plans.. some with a hood or customized hood.. some without.. all will require great cooling so at least a 6 inch inline if not an 8 or multiple fans methinks.. if anyone has any input lets hear it!

i think we could have some fun trying to create a working design for this 800w setup. as far as i know no one has done this but i have certainly not looked very hard lately. just throw me some ideas.. criticisms.. experiences..

..so away we go!

i would think the 600...would be enough to get you what you want.....

maybee two 250

indeed 600's are 50% more powerful than my 400.. better penetration for tree'd up grows too.. but its not introducing a mh spectrum to the plants which i would really like to experiment with.

i have enough trouble with penetration with 400's.. 250 is too weak.

plus i already have a 400w hps to utilize.. would rather not waste it.

lets push the boundaries!

i would go with one 600 hps and one 250 wat metal halide if you want to add the mh spectrum of light....that is plenty of light for your space....i run a 600 in 5 1/2ftlong x2 1/2 ft. deep and 5ft tall...i could add more light but i choose perpetual instead quarterpound minimum per month

i think you would be fine with another 400, just get a nice INLINE 392cfm or so fan to push that air quickly. Make sure you are using 6 inch venting tho.... 4 inches would be a bottleneck and not allow enough airflow through those hoods to cool efficiantly. I would also add a 180cfm or so squirl cage fan to move the warm air out of the cab through a carbon filter or whatever, make sure you have enough passive intakes and you should be fine.... remember if you are pushing air through a 4 inch hole use double that for your passive intakes , 8 inches worth of holes for good air flow.



THC

SEEDYNONO said:

indeed 600's are 50% more powerful than my 400...

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A 600HPS is more than 50% powerful than a 400. Relative to lumens - as PAR is not available to us - it's ~90,000 vs. ~50,000. A 600 will exceed the plants' ability to fully use the available light in 6ft^sq, so 2X400 will do so to a greater extent and generate more heat in the process. FWIW, I run 600s in my C22s.

My friend runs 2x 400w in a C22, one hps and one mh. Although having 2 lights is better because of shadowing, a 600w is almost the same amount of light as 2x 400w. So for heat, efficiency, and cost the 600w is the better light. For overall amount of light and spread the dual 400w combo is better.

My friend has a hard time cooling his cab and near the lights the temps get hot. I agree with the above posts a 600w is probably the better choice, afterall even a 600w is somewhat overkill. The cab is only like 6-7 sq feet, meaning you're almost getting 100w/sq foot with the 600w. You could run a single 400w too but a 600w is the most efficient and fits the cab size nicely. 2x 250w would be nice too but again you sacrifice efficiency for better spread and dual spectrum.

by 10,000 lumens...which isnt shit when you think about it...get a 600=90,000lumens......400=50,000

Sauce said:

My friend runs 2x 400w in a C22, one hps and one mh. Although having 2 lights is better because of shadowing,

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I've had a 400 and a 600 in a C22 - same box as the original poster's. A 600 allows for greater hanging height, increasing its dispersion. Measuring a 600 (hung higher than a 400) and a 400 with a light meter, the 600 (in the corners) is able to let the plants have almost the same amount of light as a 400 that's measured toward the center. Comparing this to a 400 measured toward its sides, the 600 prolects more light. I don't mean to sound unkind, but it may be a good idea to leave speculation where it belongs, when someone is trying to make an important decision.

cool.. so the added spectrum is really just kind of a wash idea.. i guess the 600w hps by itself really makes the most sense.

well i suppose the best way to move forward is to plan on building a second cab.. c22 or whatever is the current equivalent likely. or maybe the smaller one that is more square sized. that can be my veg cab and i'll move my 400w hps/hood/cooling setup to that cab and fit a whole new setup in the c22 for flowering use..

old setup:
400w hps hortilux (ballast on top)
valuebrite ac hood (never bought the ac flange kit or glass or had any ducting so not really ac utilized.. still had workable temps.. may set it up ac style tho in the future)
4" activeair 180cfm blower fan mounted on top

here's some pics from my first grow.. lst/pruned style long veg time.. strain was not verified but thought to be white widow crossed with super silver haze.. 80 day flower time (may have been excessive lol).. all organic ffof and pbp grow and soil bloom and lk and cal/mag+. i got 12.6 oz's from this go but the final product was not very dense at all. decent smoke but certainly not the best genetics imo.







i ran a second grow tree style with 14 day veg time over the summer with some blue moon rocks seeds and had better success. great genetics make a difference and the end product was amazing.. still not quite as dense as i know it could be. i've smoked some very similar phenos of the same strain that were grown in a dual 600w omega garden and were super dense and harder than mine without any compacting. sorry haven't taken any pics as i haven't been posting much during that time.

so now i'm moving on to new genetics once again and want to be able to keep moms.. i have some promising strains in seed form and i'm going to take each one and find the females.. then clone and flower the clones to find which phenos are keepers.. hopefully one or two phenos per strain will prove worthy.

i've got:
dp flo (8/10 just sprouted)
dp blueberry
rez lisa marie elvis diesel (10 in paper towels germing)
second pack of lisa (saved)

should be a good winter with the flo and lisa going.. i want optimal cooling so i can try to pull some coloring out of these girls so i'm going with this for the new setup in the c22:
600w hps hortilux
daystar ac (with ducting)
6" vortex (either on top or hanging on rubber right under ceiling for low noise)

i have 2 8"x8" darkroom louvres in the intake squares in the bottom of the cab now.. may add 2 more or a single 12 incher between them to help with flow. i also have 2 holmes clip on swiveling fans now instead of the little static turbo and they work better for circulation.

so the dual 400 + 400 c22 will be 2 seperate 400 (veg) + 600 (flower) cabs working together for perpetual and gene preserving purposes! cool thanks for the info guys! i guess 800w hid in a c22 is just not worth it!

Very nice set-up SEEDYNONO. 600hps should be great for that size space, and you'll get plenty of penetration. Nice genetics you've got, keep us updated (maybe a diary?)

Good luck!

600w hps ...
daystar ac (with ducting)
6" vortex

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That's the setup I use in my boxes, along with Can50 filters. You may want to read the Mills Pride thread, if you haven't already.

i have 2 8"x8" darkroom louvres in the intake squares in the bottom of the cab now.. may add 2 more or a single 12 incher between them to help with flow.

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I run 2 8x8 louvers and 4 4" louvers in each box. The 8x8s are filtered and configured for 2 panels instead of the (stock) 4. My temps are 1-2F above ambient measured at the canopy.

Allusive said:

Very nice set-up SEEDYNONO. 600hps should be great for that size space, and you'll get plenty of penetration. Nice genetics you've got, keep us updated (maybe a diary?)

Good luck!

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Hey thanks Allusive! should be getting a new diary set up later.. once i get some new batteries for my cam.. haha.

simon said:

That's the setup I use in my boxes, along with Can50 filters. You may want to read the Mills Pride thread, if you haven't already.



I run 2 8x8 louvers and 4 4" louvers in each box. The 8x8s are filtered and configured for 2 panels instead of the (stock) 4. My temps are 1-2F above ambient measured at the canopy.

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cool.. i'm thinking of going with a vaportek 4000 unit for odor control.. so far i haven't used any.. but i'm expecting these will be stinkier strains. may add a carbon filter too if it doesn't work as well as they say. i don't have the shelf in place in my cab so it would have to go on the top decreasing stealth noticably imo so i'd like to avoid it. i guess there are other ways i could fit it inside but it would be tight and i want to grow tall sativas eventually.

i have some 3m filtrete material on my intakes.. seems to keep the dust out well but didn't know how bad it clogged up air flow.. what kind of filters do you use? i haven't seen any 4 inch louvers around where'd u get those? i think i'll probably go with 2 more 8x8.

i was contemplating digital ballast ideas.. but it doesn't seem worth it.. still trying to figure out the best way to get a hold of these new goodies.. my local hydro shop carries the hood and the ballast and lamp setup but they don't have the vortex brand fan that i want. anyone know where a decent place to order one from is? or do they have local area distributors?

alright.. i'm ready to make some purchases on stuff but its very hard to find a one stop shop that looks decent and carries everything i want at low prices.. i think the best i've come up with so far is the mdhydro.. but i want to hear from someone if they are actually reputable as well as cheap and convenient.

they offer the 600w hydrofarm xtrasun setup and you can add the accessories to it.. they have a great price on that. $330 for the ballast, horilux bulb, daystar a/c reflector..

*(this is weird because it says 'do i want to add a tempered safety lens for $17.. i thought the daystar ac came with the glass already.. anyone know whats up with that?? should i add it?)*

they also carry the vortex 6" at a great price ($150 for 449cfm!) and you can bundle it up with carbon filters.. problem is i forgot the whole rule of thumb when it comes to cfm.. i know i want to match it but is it the fan can be a larger cfm than the filter or the vice versa? they carry a can33 or a can66.. no can50 like simon uses. the 33 is rated for 200cfm the 66 is rated for 420cfm.. no idea how big either of them are.. looking for dimensions.. so which one should i get guys?? i just want to lay it horizontal on top of the cab.. but are these things really super huge?

so with them it comes to about $640 before shipping.. not bad at all. i remember seeing a post somewhere no idea where.. but it said someone had heard bad things about mdhydro.. so let me know whats up with this place.. its weird because when you go to the checkout page it changes the name at the top of the page to californiahydro.. i'm not shipping any of it to my house or anything but just want to feel secure with the purchase.

thanks for the help in advance..

edit- also anyone know about mdhydro's offered 'solid state speed controller' for the inline fan.. i'd like to have one but only if its really easy to set up and there isn't any kind of crazy wiring involved..

MDHydro is California Hydro, so no worries on that end.

also, underneath ur vortex options (where u choose CFM rating) it has "add solid state speed controller" unless they are out of them. . .


but thats where ud find em



good luck

lots of Love and Light
unika

rastamonunika said:

MDHydro is California Hydro, so no worries on that end.

also, underneath ur vortex options (where u choose CFM rating) it has "add solid state speed controller" unless they are out of them. . .


but thats where ud find em



good luck

lots of Love and Light
unika

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maryland is california all the sudden? haha..

i saw the controllers just wondering if they are nice plug and play devices or if i'm going to have to wire them somehow.. so i can decide whether its worth trying to implement or not.

just fyi people all the unanswered questions are in the last post of the first page so you have to back up a bit..

I've ordered from them before. Plain brown box, quick shipping...Next time I need a Vortex I'll go back there. The speed controller thing is super simple. It has a male & female end, and a speed dial. No wireing, just plug and go.

SEEDYNONO,

Great thread and I can vouch for the Vaportek 4000, 6" Vortex and Speed control as that is what I run in my C13. I am currently thinking of a 250 to 400W Upgrade.

Peace