Are clones like VCR tapes?

Because of space limitations, keeping a mother plant would be unpractical for me.

I thought of starting the plants from seed, and just before flowering them, taking some clones, which would be my next generation of plants. When time came for this second generation to flower, I would take clones of off THESE plants, which would then be my third generation, and so on.

Clones are supposed to be all genetically identical, but still... after many generations of taking a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone, would it still be the same thing? Or would they somehow degrade in quality much like when you make a copy of a VCR tape? Damn I just realized I haven't done this in years.

I COULD keep a mother if necessary, but it would be much easier for me this way.

Thanks.

i don't keep moms..... been doing this for over 3 years now.... right before the last week of veg i like to trim lower vegetation off.....I then use this as my clones......It also directs more plant energy to top sites.......Haven't had any problems, what so ever doing this...... Grow on, homie



*Edit* When i quit keeping mothers.... i thought about this problem myself...... but then i thought, Some of these Clone Only Vintage Strains are prolly clones of clones Thousands of times over.... so if it works that many ..... then y couldn't it work a few more for me....

Theoretically after time the clone will degrade. I mean every new clone is still technically the same age as the original plant, however it's nothing any of us will likely come across.

Edit:Have you checked out Bonsai Tree Mothers? They're very space conservative and it's not very difficult to block off a small portion of your grow space.

Laxpunker said:

Theoretically after time the clone will degrade. I mean every new clone is still technically the same age as the original plant, however it's nothing any of us will likely come across.

Edit:Have you checked out Bonsai Tree Mothers? They're very space conservative and it's not very difficult to block off a small portion of your grow space.

Click to expand...

The genetics of the clone dont change at all. The only thing that changes is the enviroment. So if you cut clones before each flowering and keep these as your "mothers" until your ready for your next run at which time you would cut clones to be your new "mothers" everything will run just fine with no problems. This is why we are able to keep elite clones like TW, SD and OG for so many years and still have the fine plant that they started out as . Im not sure what Laxpunker is refering to perhaps he could explain further?
BUt yes your idea will work ... go for it and lets get grown good luck!!

Bonsai Mum's

Bonsai Mum's

This is what laxpunker was talking about, with this technique you can have 1 or 10 mothers around and not take up very much space.

Link to Bonsai Moms Thread

This is an example from that thread



But as for clones degrading after time, I have heard of genetic drifting due to cloning but have never seen it or even known anybody that has had it happen to. A clone will be the same age as the mom, so a clone that was taken yesterday from a clone, of a clone, of a clone and so forth for lets say 5 years ago off the original mother, that cutting is also 5 years old. My theory is that just like everything else in the world, nothing stays the same. People age and change just like plants do as they get older. Characteristics will change and new ones will form. I know a old timer that has had the same mother for 10 years and he swears that it has completly changed almost all of its traints, from the way it grows to the high it gives.

Now once again this is not based on anything that I have read, its just a theory. But if you were to have a mother and keep her alive for 5 years and then were able to trace the linage of a 1st generation clone and followed it to present day, I would be willing to bet that both would exhibit the same traits even if those were different than the traits that they had 5 years ago.

I am not saying that every plant will change over time, but it can happen and I don't think it has anything to do with the cuttings getting "tired". Just like people, some people never change, and some change every couple of months, some people live forever and some die early deaths. It all comes down to the original DNA

It is theoretically possible for the genetics of a clone to vary from that of the original mother, but unlikely - if there is a local mutation in part of the mother plant and that part of the plant is used to make a clone, the altered genetics may predominate in the clone rather than the originals. Having said that, merely selecting tissue to be cloned that's typical of the mother and appears in good health is a good way to avoid this as far as is possible.

What's probably more significant is that if a clone is taken using tissue that is not in good health, then the clone may also not be in good health, though I would suggest that it should be possible in most cases to nurse the plants back to the point at which they're able to adequately express their genetics.

Cannabis is no different to any other plant species commonly propagated by cloning, and experience with those (bananas are an extreme example - almost all of the world's commercial banana trees are clones of a single plant) would suggest that degradation of genetic material is not a significant problem (not to mention requiring a mechanism currently unknown to science and unique to a single species).

Thanks for all your help, I guess I should have no problems then.

Yes, I had looked into bonsai moms. It's pretty cool actually, but for me it's just easier this other way.

Where is the best place to take a clone?

Where is the best place to take a clone?

Where is the best place on a plant to take a clone?
Do you just cut where the stem branches out and put it in a peat pot and then you have a clone? I would love to see a guide on how to clone, but searching for "how to clone" just brings up threads like this.

Thanks.

I've never heard of clone degradation, but I suppose it's possible. Theoretically, you should be able to keep a strain alive via cloning for a hundred years or more.

However, human error or complacency is more likely to kill off your strain. Bad pH, light falling on the plants, evil bugs, cat eating them, you name it.

My last strain lasted 4 1/2 years. I never kept a mother, I just took clones off before putting them into flowering. That dynasty was discontinued on purpose, I felt it was time for a change. The new potentate of my bakedness is now ak-47, but I have a craving to try some bubblicious - the AK may have to share the reign until they too get replaced with something different. A stony revolution.

Good thread. I wonder how long a plant can live if, through cloning, it is never allowed to become too large to sustain itself and the older tissues are continuously discarded. Regardless of the effect on the plant's high. Indefinitely?

I clone the tops 2 weeks before I hit 12/12 and get more bud sites and never have mothers. Been doing it for a while now, no degradation....just put in some love with a good pheno and you'll have chronic

TheBudWhisperer said:

Good thread. I wonder how long a plant can live if, through cloning, it is never allowed to become too large to sustain itself and the older tissues are continuously discarded. Regardless of the effect on the plant's high. Indefinitely?

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It could be kept going indefinitely, but since all mother plants and clones are genetically identical, they're all equally vulnerable to new diseases or insect infestations. It's thus likely that at some stage the population will suffer a fatal pandemic of some kind, especially if all of the plants are in a single location. That's what happened to Elm trees in the UK when we got Dutch Elm Disease (all British Elm trees were descended from a small number of genetically-identical saplings brought over by the Romans).

chepnut said:

I am not saying that every plant will change over time, but it can happen and I don't think it has anything to do with the cuttings getting "tired". Just like people, some people never change, and some change every couple of months, some people live forever and some die early deaths. It all comes down to the original DNA

Click to expand...

No-one lives Forever


and yes you can continue cloning a clone and so on ...until you get bored ith it...

Never seen or heard of one case of "dna" changing in a plant or degrading because of time grown

I agree with babba ...lets get grown




Peace

Formaldehyde said:

Because of space limitations, keeping a mother plant would be unpractical for me.

I thought of starting the plants from seed, and just before flowering them, taking some clones, which would be my next generation of plants. When time came for this second generation to flower, I would take clones of off THESE plants, which would then be my third generation, and so on.

Clones are supposed to be all genetically identical, but still... after many generations of taking a clone of a clone of a clone of a clone, would it still be the same thing? Or would they somehow degrade in quality much like when you make a copy of a VCR tape? Damn I just realized I haven't done this in years.

I COULD keep a mother if necessary, but it would be much easier for me this way.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Im with james bong
!PeAcE!

aliendude - http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=10225&page=1&pp=40
Great topic! ....

Formaldehyde said:

I thought of starting the plants from seed, and just before flowering them, taking some clones, which would be my next generation of plants. When time came for this second generation to flower, I would take clones of off THESE plants, which would then be my third generation, and so on.

Thanks.

Click to expand...

I've been doing this too. It just seems the easier, quicker way to go. I've been growing for almost a year, and have had no problems. I mean, why wait for a clone to get big (I only flower 1 or 2 plants at a time under a SCROG) when you have a big plant already? It's been working for me.

Vaguerant