MedUser420
Active member
I happened to check the run off and it read 7.15, I watered with 6.25 ph water. Am I locking out nutes with the ph so high? My medium is 1 part Ocean froest, 1 part shultz organic compost, 1 part perlite with dolomite lime.
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Is 7.15 ph of the run off too high?
- Thread starter MedUser420
- Start date
V
vonforne
iam using OF with lime also and experienced the same thing. I have since cut the OF with some peat and adjust my tap water to 5.5-6.0 after letting it sit for about 2 days. the plant have recovered nicely. It took about 1 1/2 to 2 weeks. Just be patient. try and get your run off water to about 6.0 if you adjust your nute water to what i stated your soil ph will drift towards that. hope this helped.
V
vonforne
sproutco
sproutco
everything is fine now.
sproutco
One tblsp per gallon and adjusted the water according to your thread on ph.sproutco said:Sounds like you added too much lime.
everything is fine now.
^^ I was talking to meduser...that he used too much lime. I liked your suggestion to acidify the water. I am glad you found my thread useful. 
Best thing to do is mix up a really small batch of soil like in a large cup and use the same ratio of ingredients. Wet well. Wait a week. Test ph. Then you will get an idea of what a larger batch will be like. Sometimes I use 3 or 4 different lime rates in different cups to see which one I like best when trying out a new soil mix. Typical lime rates for potting soils could be 1 to 10 pounds per 27 cubic feet (1 yard) depending on what is in the mix. 1 pound dolomite lime is about 24 tablespoons. 1 gallon of soil is .13 cubic feet. So, 1 tablespoon in a gallon of soil = 8.65 pounds per 27 cubic feet(1 yard). I see quite often around icmag that people are using 2 tablespoons per gallon of soil which is probably too much. (17.3 pounds per 27 cubic feet or 1 yard)
Best thing to do is mix up a really small batch of soil like in a large cup and use the same ratio of ingredients. Wet well. Wait a week. Test ph. Then you will get an idea of what a larger batch will be like. Sometimes I use 3 or 4 different lime rates in different cups to see which one I like best when trying out a new soil mix. Typical lime rates for potting soils could be 1 to 10 pounds per 27 cubic feet (1 yard) depending on what is in the mix. 1 pound dolomite lime is about 24 tablespoons. 1 gallon of soil is .13 cubic feet. So, 1 tablespoon in a gallon of soil = 8.65 pounds per 27 cubic feet(1 yard). I see quite often around icmag that people are using 2 tablespoons per gallon of soil which is probably too much. (17.3 pounds per 27 cubic feet or 1 yard)
V
vonforne
you had me in the Quote Sproutco just thought it was me, sorry for the mix up.
V
vonforne
I do use humic acids and still had a ph problem. I use lime and still had a Ph problem. Liquid Karma ...right? theres another one but its for Hydro and not organic (completely)
and I use alot of EWC as a matter of fact just increased the amount I am using. On the older containers I top dressed with EWC. but still have to adjust the H2O ph to keep it down.
and I use alot of EWC as a matter of fact just increased the amount I am using. On the older containers I top dressed with EWC. but still have to adjust the H2O ph to keep it down.
Answer me this V, do the plants look good or stunted and nute deprived?
I think to some extend original water ph is a variable also like a very high starting ph.
Try rain water if yours is too high, rain water is unfortunately acid rain which is perfect and purer than tap water.
Liquid Karma or a good microbial tea every watering has helped me keep my grow looking healthy and ph meter free, tea every watering activated with EWC, LK, liquid seaweed and molasses.
I think to some extend original water ph is a variable also like a very high starting ph.
Try rain water if yours is too high, rain water is unfortunately acid rain which is perfect and purer than tap water.
Liquid Karma or a good microbial tea every watering has helped me keep my grow looking healthy and ph meter free, tea every watering activated with EWC, LK, liquid seaweed and molasses.
V
vonforne
Hi Suby, I have just found the Blackstrap at a feed store. I use Liquid Karma and Maxi Crops Liguid Seaweed and have just increased the EWC in my soil admendments. The palnts were looking a little light green, not the real dark that I used to have in the past. They do seem to be coming around.The older plants in long veg are starting to look real good.Dark green and no signs of any Def. or any kind but only after adding some new things from you. thanks for the pointers, . My tap water is around 8.0 sometimes higher out of the tap. I adjust, but 24 hours later it is aroung 7.0 again. So I adjust again to 5.5 and it will settle around 6.0, give or take a little. I'am hoping that the EWC that I have increased will help with this. I threw that piece of junk Rapicrap test meter away and every now and then use the run off method to check. I'am hoping that things will settle down now. And I will not have to worry about PH again. I will let the soil do it, itself. I do have one question for you though, I was looking closly at my Dolomite lime and it says it contains calic lime also. Have you heard of this and will it be effective for what we are doing? Or would it be harmful? The brand is Sunnydale and they sell it at H.D. The Hyro store has finally gotten my Pulverized Dolomite lime I ordered 8 wks ago but I have already done a good deal of planting with the other Dolomite.
And a friend of mine is using run off water and his soil is aroung 5. and he is using the same lime as me. But not the same mix. He has his own thing going there. One of the guys who knows everything and will take no advice or hints from any one EVER. So, I just dont say anything anymore. Thanks for all the help and stay safe. See ya soon.
Von
And Meduser: I hope the things we are discussing are helping you also. We or I did not intend to highjack your thread. Our problems are along the same lines and I hope you are still reading your thread. Good luck with your PH problem and I hope your plants, like mine are recovering nicely.
And a friend of mine is using run off water and his soil is aroung 5. and he is using the same lime as me. But not the same mix. He has his own thing going there. One of the guys who knows everything and will take no advice or hints from any one EVER. So, I just dont say anything anymore. Thanks for all the help and stay safe. See ya soon.
Von
And Meduser: I hope the things we are discussing are helping you also. We or I did not intend to highjack your thread. Our problems are along the same lines and I hope you are still reading your thread. Good luck with your PH problem and I hope your plants, like mine are recovering nicely.
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Hey V
not all limes are created equal, I would expect better results with the Dlime from the hydro store it is superior for pot rather than calcitic lime.
B1
WTF have you been, I really needed so oldschool backup this week, it's like night of the living ph pen in here.
Maybe because it's too simple, too easy to believe that a recipe beat a science..and is in itself more advanced than the science of man.
not all limes are created equal, I would expect better results with the Dlime from the hydro store it is superior for pot rather than calcitic lime.
B1
WTF have you been, I really needed so oldschool backup this week, it's like night of the living ph pen in here.
Maybe because it's too simple, too easy to believe that a recipe beat a science..and is in itself more advanced than the science of man.
V
vonforne
Ok I will throw away the questions of Ph and not worry any more. Let the organics do the job for me. Ok? It was the last time.
Burn1 did come around. He was just direct and to the point about the whole PH thing. We are just learning. I have been away for quite a few years and just need some new lessons on basic things. Now that I am over the PH thing it will be on to something new. What else do you have to teach? How about indepth soil recycling that I have been reading about by 3lb.?
Burn1 did come around. He was just direct and to the point about the whole PH thing. We are just learning. I have been away for quite a few years and just need some new lessons on basic things. Now that I am over the PH thing it will be on to something new. What else do you have to teach? How about indepth soil recycling that I have been reading about by 3lb.?
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3BM
Member
Getting an organic system to function without a pH meter is about understanding the interactions within an individual soil mixture. Each user will combine slightly different proportions of each element together, thus creating a unique set of conditions. Testing in the early stages of your soil mix is helpful. Often pH problems occur or dont occur by chance based on interactions more complex than most consider. For example, peat becomes increasingly acidic as it breaks down, while lime raises the pH as it breaks down. The two should cancel out right? But the exact rate of decay of both products is dependant on their proportions in the mix and the micro herd activity. Getting the two working together is an important part of any soil mix. Aim for a pH of 7. Adding greensand can help this process since it is a soil buffer, meaning it has a tendency to bring the pH toward neutral. Testing is really the only way to know when you get it right. Several samples like Sproutco suggested will get this out of the way right from the outset.
Another consideration with balancing pH is the soluble regimine. As Von and others stated, soil pH can be corrected by adding a corresponding pH in soluble form. This works temporarily, and can keep the plants in good health while the soil evolves to better conditions (or worse depending on how the balance is set). Making teas can work without a pH pen once you know how the ingredients you use affect the pH. Blackstrap Molasses has a tendency to raise the pH, while many commercial ferts like EJ tend to lower it. Adding the two together in the right proportion will balance like a charm, but adding enough of each to get proper pH and nutrient balance takes experience. To start out, grab that pen and test away. Keep testing until you can predict what the meter will say, then back off the meter. Also, make sure the meter is calibrated. Dont risk faulty measurements, just calibrate it.
Lots of tricks can help simplify the process, and the end result should get the grow running smoothly without constantly testing and retesting. Once you get the garden to sing, stick with what works. Each garden will see different results, even those using the same strains and techniques. Find what works for you. Test everything until you know what works, and stick with that. I have gotten dozens of different mixes of soil, and solubles to function comparably. No silver bullet to speak of ... the best advise I can give is be patient. Make a small change, and test it, make a small change, test, etc. If someone else has done the work for you, great use that recipe and run with it, but I bet it wont work for you quite the way it worked for them. A lot more intuition goes into the process then meets the eye. The only sure way is to experiment, and good testing procedure can go a long toward eliminating persistent but subtle mistakes.
Getting back to MedUser:
7.15 pH is fine. I like to aim for 7, but a .15 divergence is acceptable for sure. To compensate I would make sure to water with a pH of 6.0. Stick with that and dont worry about it until you notice problems. You never listed any specific issues so I assume your concern is precautionary. Just stick with a soluble pH of 6 and you should not have pH issues, especially since any peat in your medium will lower the pH of the soil over time (getting it to exactly 7 hopefully.) Hope this helps.
3BM
Another consideration with balancing pH is the soluble regimine. As Von and others stated, soil pH can be corrected by adding a corresponding pH in soluble form. This works temporarily, and can keep the plants in good health while the soil evolves to better conditions (or worse depending on how the balance is set). Making teas can work without a pH pen once you know how the ingredients you use affect the pH. Blackstrap Molasses has a tendency to raise the pH, while many commercial ferts like EJ tend to lower it. Adding the two together in the right proportion will balance like a charm, but adding enough of each to get proper pH and nutrient balance takes experience. To start out, grab that pen and test away. Keep testing until you can predict what the meter will say, then back off the meter. Also, make sure the meter is calibrated. Dont risk faulty measurements, just calibrate it.
Lots of tricks can help simplify the process, and the end result should get the grow running smoothly without constantly testing and retesting. Once you get the garden to sing, stick with what works. Each garden will see different results, even those using the same strains and techniques. Find what works for you. Test everything until you know what works, and stick with that. I have gotten dozens of different mixes of soil, and solubles to function comparably. No silver bullet to speak of ... the best advise I can give is be patient. Make a small change, and test it, make a small change, test, etc. If someone else has done the work for you, great use that recipe and run with it, but I bet it wont work for you quite the way it worked for them. A lot more intuition goes into the process then meets the eye. The only sure way is to experiment, and good testing procedure can go a long toward eliminating persistent but subtle mistakes.
Getting back to MedUser:
7.15 pH is fine. I like to aim for 7, but a .15 divergence is acceptable for sure. To compensate I would make sure to water with a pH of 6.0. Stick with that and dont worry about it until you notice problems. You never listed any specific issues so I assume your concern is precautionary. Just stick with a soluble pH of 6 and you should not have pH issues, especially since any peat in your medium will lower the pH of the soil over time (getting it to exactly 7 hopefully.) Hope this helps.
3BM
Ocean Forest has enough lime and even some crushed oyster shells to prevent acidity, so imho adding lime might have made the organic mix a bit too alkaline....
Any noticable micro-nutrient deficiencies?
Just wanted to add that all the responses on this thread are excellent!!!!!
Sometimes I am astounded at all the learning 'round these parts....
yer pal gp
Any noticable micro-nutrient deficiencies?
Just wanted to add that all the responses on this thread are excellent!!!!!
Sometimes I am astounded at all the learning 'round these parts....
yer pal gp
V
vonforne
ya, one of my favorite things I like to feed is my head. And my plants of course.
TNJed
Member
Yeah buddy, I transplanted some fairly young plants into a mixture of Ocean forest, perlite, vermiculite. I read somewhere that OF needs lime , so I went and bought a small bag of "horicultural hydrated lime". The directions said to mix 1 tablespoon/gal. of water and water to runoff (apply once a year). A tablespoon seemed like a lot, so I used approx. half a teaspoon instead. Within a few days all of the plants were displaying the same symptoms: Stunted, yellow, twisted, contorted, and burnt new growth. A few of the older leaves tacoed and and burnt at the tips as well. I tested some runoff water and it appears that my ph is up over 7 now. I'm not going to have the oppurtunity to transplant for a week or so, and don't really want to add any more to their current stress load, so I guess I'm just going to give them a dose of some water, ph'ed to around 5.7-5.9 and maybe add a little Blast Off(a plant stimulant that contains B-1). I am going to continue to water normally w/ a ph reading in the upper 5's until I/they are able to be transplanted. Any further advice and/or comments are always appreciated!
G
Guest
Like GP said OC is PH high out of the bag. I add lime 30-40 days after I plant... after the 30 days most likely salts and nutes have brought it down...sometimes I will use it early though if there is a MG/Cal deficiency since I use lime I don't use cal-mag. But wait till a month or so then add the lime.Peace.
