Making seeds in veg-cycle

GoatCheese · Nov 17, 2017

Vegging plants can make seeds.

This Chunky Cheese (UK Cheese x DeepChunk) was never in 12/12 light cycle but started semi-blooming in veg because of stress; badly root bound etc.

I was flowering a male next to my veg cab and noticed my Chunky Cheese keeper was making few seeds. I saw the same thing years ago on the same plant when it was pollinated with a Chunky Cheese male that started dropping pollen in 18/6 veg light cycle.

Haven't tried germinating these seeds yet and i don't know when i will, just thought it would be cool thing to show to people who aren't aware of this.

Here's the vegging mom and few seeds:

weedtoker · Nov 17, 2017

Some genetics, certains cuttings pre-flower heavy, those are more prone to what happened, as you could see. Sometimes, they don't get completed/done, but yours seem viable, so yeah, goes to show they just want to progress forward, just got have full sex development, and both sexes to happen, crazy smart plants eh? :biggrin:

cheers

GoatCheese · Nov 17, 2017

weedtoker said:
Some genetics, certains cuttings pre-flower heavy, those are more prone to what happened, as you could see. Sometimes, they don't get completed/done, but yours seem viable, so yeah, goes to show they just want to progress forward, just got have full sex development, and both sexes to happen, crazy smart plants eh?

cheers

I had just as many undevelopped seeds, those just didn't make the pic.
Yea, i have few other keepers as well that also start growing calyxes when they get badly rootbound and stressed, but not all my keepers do this so easily.
When the plants get repotted to larger containers, they start growing normally again.

The will to survive for cannabis plants seem to be quite strong, yes.

GoatCheese · Nov 17, 2017

Oh..
When the Chunky Cheese girl was making veg-seeds years ago, she wasn't semi-blooming like she was in the pics, but the seeds grew in the preflower-calyxes that form in the nodes.
I was quite surpized cause i hadn't even read about this before seeing it.

She only made one or two seeds back then, but i can't remember what happenned to the seed(s). I'm sure i tried to germ it/them, but can't remember if they were duds or did i mess something up, but i didn't grow plants out of those.

Wolfshadoe · Dec 19, 2017

Shit happens!!!

Shit happens!!!

Yes,, I also have seen this..

Those little white hairs that grow just below a limb on vegging plant will attract pollen like krazy glue :biggrin:

I started taking Q-tip dipped in pollen and blowing it directly on those spots on plants under floros vegging 24/7..Dammed if it didn't work!!

Once that lil hair is "tainted">>LOL by just a speck of pollen no matter hours of light that lil hair will start browning and "nature" will do the rest,no matter,controled environment or OD's..

MJ is a fascinating plant...Its just too damn bad so many ppl out there are so frigging ignorant to relize there is much "more" to be learned..But the Vail has been lifted!!! :dance013:

And we march on to a better day..
Peace yall..<ws> will be lurking over in these forums for awhile getting all the wonderful 411 from the best growers in the world!!!<ws>

Harry Ballzonya · Jan 23, 2018

Wolfshadoe said:
Yes,, I also have seen this..

Those little white hairs that grow just below a limb on vegging plant will attract pollen like krazy glue

I started taking Q-tip dipped in pollen and blowing it directly on those spots on plants under floros vegging 24/7..Dammed if it didn't work!!

Once that lil hair is "tainted">>LOL by just a speck of pollen no matter hours of light that lil hair will start browning and "nature" will do the rest,no matter,controled environment or OD's..

MJ is a fascinating plant...Its just too damn bad so many ppl out there are so frigging ignorant to relize there is much "more" to be learned..But the Vail has been lifted!!! And we march on to a better day..
Peace yall..<ws> will be lurking over in these forums for awhile getting all the wonderful 411 from the best growers in the world!!!<ws>

I'm outta likes or i would've liked this then figured out how to unlike it soo i could like it again! Awesome thred and I'm going to try this. I'm not sure if its strain dependant but im gonna find out. Has anyone tried growing seeds made during veg? Thanks for the info, you guys rock. :woohoo:

GoatCheese · Jan 23, 2018

Harry Ballzonya said:
I'm outta likes or i would've liked this then figured out how to unlike it soo i could like it again! Awesome thred and I'm going to try this. I'm not sure if its strain dependant but im gonna find out. Has anyone tried growing seeds made during veg? Thanks for the info, you guys rock.

You' just have to find a plant that is easily stressed in veg. Some take more abuse than others ..small pot size and long veg time help.
Blueberry-strains seem to do this fairly easily; that plant in the pictures is UK Cheese x DeepChunk. I have a Pacific13 x NL5 that does it when it gets too large for a small pot. They all get back to normal once repotted into larger containers

I'm gonna try to germinate one or two of those pictured seeds as soon as i have posted this reply.

GoatCheese · Jan 26, 2018

Pop,Pop,Pop..
EDIT: both seeds have now germinated

GoatCheese · Jan 26, 2018

A playful thought..

If cannabis adapts to it's environment in time, if these kind of "Veg light cycle seeds" would be inbred long enough in 18/6 or 20/4 veg light cycle, would the line start developing larger flowers and develop some kind of auto-flowering trait ?

So who's gonna do some testing with this one? Let's see some commitment! 20-30 years is relatively short time in cosmic scale. I'm sure there'd be some results found by then if there ever was any to be found in the first place :biggrin:

So chime in around the y. 2040 if you're up for the task.

GoatCheese · Feb 2, 2018

These look to be growing normaly, no freaks.
If these are males i wont flower them, but females i will at some point.
The one on the left had nice purple on the first leaves right when it popped the seed hull off. A DeepChunk trait, i'm sure.

Both parent-strains have some intersex traits in them, so seeds from these parents aren't the best to see if these kind of "veg-seeds" will produce more hermies.

But if the possible females will only grow few late nanners, then they'd be about on the same "hermie level" as the parents.

The mother plant (UK Cheese x DeepChunk) grows few late nanners around the harvest at 11 weeks. The male was a Haze-leaning CBD 3D, so it's quite possible it might bring in some hermie traits as well, possibly more than the mother.

Every female CBD 3D i had grew late nanners, some more than others.
I wasn't too impressed with this CBD Crew strain. I have read grow reports from people who got hermies from other CBD Crew lines, the SnS Widow was one of them, iirc. No nanners in my CBD Critical Cure keeper that was flowered right next to the CBD 3D girls

GoatCheese · Sep 10, 2020

Finally i had the time to flower one of the plants i made by pollinating a plant under veg-light cycle. I kept two clones going for few years thinking they're both females, and only after i put them in my bloom tent i noticed the other one was a male!

The female looks abit rough in these harvest pics cause i had her sitting in the corner of my tent, didn't pay enough attention, and i think i had her sitting in some run-off water for awhile cause the last 3-4 weeks of bloom (12 weeks in total) she didn't drink as she was supposed to. So i imagine she had some root damage going.

As i took the photos, i noticed few nanners on the crowns of couple of tops, but i was actually surprised she didn't shoot those out earlier and more of them, because both of the parent lines are nanner-prone. So this still kinda proves you can make seeds under veg-conditions and get normal, healthy plants out of them.

The whole time, the few years i kept the two plants going by rooting a new cutting every now and then, the plants grew just like any other plant. I saw no negative signs in them from making the seeds in veg-light cycle.

Lost Guy · Mar 28, 2022

You can darken and flower a female for a week or two so it just has a few female flowers, pollinate them and stop darkening them even earlier then pollinating if they are super determinate early maturing varieties. I did this in the higher areas in Switzerland with a bunch of hoop greenhouses, we wanted the seed crop and did not care about flowers, because we wanted to finish the plants early to avoid the cold and wet weather that was causing the flowers to get gray mold and lost most of the crops, this way we did get fewer seeds per plant but we lost nothing to gray mold as the crop was pulled earlier before the wet and cold weather. The plants were pollinated and then the hoop greenhouses were moved to the next group of plants in the ground to be darkened, in a few months we did a few acres, each darkened, pollinated and then greenhouses moved to next group, worked fine for producing seeds, but you do not really get any buds the plants all re-vegged and we harvested them a few month later just before the cold and wet arrived. This is very useful for late maturing varieties that normally can not finish outdoors because of the cold and wet.

PolyChucker · Apr 15, 2022

I have done this
My best male from the summer had insane flowers and I cloned it, trying to keep it in veg but it just keeps flowering and flowering. So I use it to make pollinate the other cuts in the long term veg area.
I only got about 3/20 to sprout but I took them straight from the plant into water. I’m going to try them again in a couple months because they look mature. I know this has been debated but whenever I try to sprout seeds without waiting a couple months between harvest and germination, I usually get low success rates

GoatCheese · May 13, 2022

PolyChucker said:
I have done this
My best male from the summer had insane flowers and I cloned it, trying to keep it in veg but it just keeps flowering and flowering. So I use it to make pollinate the other cuts in the long term veg area.
I only got about 3/20 to sprout but I took them straight from the plant into water. I’m going to try them again in a couple months because they look mature. I know this has been debated but whenever I try to sprout seeds without waiting a couple months between harvest and germination, I usually get low success rates

It seems to vary between plants/lines how well seeds sprout straight off the plant – I’ve had 100% germ rate with some seeds while seeds from another plant at the same time had a poor germ rate.

Some people also talk about cold treatment (putting them in the fridge for few weeks) with fresh seeds, but one member had better success germinating fresh seeds that were held just in room temperature compared to seeds from the same batch that were put in the fridge for awhile.

djonkoman · May 13, 2022

It seems to vary between plants/lines how well seeds sprout straight off the plant –

can confirm, I think it's also a breedable trait.
I have a line I have been working on for a while, often tried rushing the next generation, so throughout the breeding I often used barely mature seeds, and germed them within days of coming off the plant.
after some generations of doing that, that line now doesn't require much rest after harvest for full germination. and, relatively unripe seeds (white color) often still germ and produce good seedlings.

GoatCheese · May 14, 2022

It makes sense too, that trait being genetics specific - so you can breed with it - so that in the areas with a rainy/cold/winter season, the new seeds won’t start germinating immediately after fully ripening ... perhaps.

PolyChucker · May 24, 2022

Straight off the plant I took like 20 seeds
I put them in water for about 5 days and only three cracked
Since these are important to me I took the unsprouted out and dried them. Then tried again in a month and got 5 more. After a little while I pulled the unsprouted again so now have maybe a dozen that have been soaked twice. But now it’s been a few months so I’m going to try them again

PolyChucker · May 24, 2022

I’m imagining the plants that have this waiting trait must have a wet winter where they are from.
Imagine outdoors in nature the plants are pollinated and develop seeds. About 5 weeks after pollination the seeds are mature. But they don’t want to start in winter even if they get rained on. Ideally the plant dies, dries out, falls over but the seeds wait until spring.

Wuachuma · May 24, 2022

I've done this a bit, both indoors and outdoors

Its real convenient outdoors as it lets you expedite working lines in a single season.

I usually have packets of pollen from the previous season so im able to pollinate females in spring, 5 weeks later I can sprout those seeds, then do Bx breeding that same year - usually with the same mothers.

I've found no negatives to this method

GoatCheese · May 24, 2022

It’s great that people have found this method actually useful, and apparently see no ill effects like more hermies.

:::

About seed maturation time..

I’ve read people saying that when you let seeds mature longer on the plant they will have longer shelf life.

Iirc, SamS has said he let’s his seeds mature about 10 weeks before harvesting them. for me 7 weeks is minimum and usually i let them go 9-10 weeks if the seeds i’m making are really important to me.

Many times people are saying on the forums that seeds need only 5-6 weeks to develop – but are they fully mature/ripe at this point? I would think 5 weeks is quite on the limit, esp. when you take on account the possible stress factors which may slow maturing/growth down abit

..my point being, 5 week old seeds may germinate well when they are relatively fresh but will they have the shelf life of 8-10 week old seeds.

Making seeds in veg-cycle

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