Help with air layering

Drop That Sound · Nov 7, 2016

This will be my first time attempting this method, on a large plant. I want to take out all the branches in the center to clear more room for the scrog nets. Some are pretty large, but i've seen it done on other threads.

So anyway my questions are:

1. Is rooting hormone really required? I see many sources claiming you do not need it for this method, and it might even slow down root development, not for cannabis plants though but just in general...

2. I have smaller grodan rockwool cubes, should I soak them in 5.5 ph'd RO water first with some clonex, or just mist them and then wrap around the stems with plastic wrap? Figured I could double them up on the biggest branches I need cloned.

3. Should I run down and buy some clone gel or rooting hormone and also some Rapid Rooters or peat moss to use instead of rockwool? I ran out of all that stuff and don't want to use any old bottles of clone gel laying around.

4. I know there's a few threads, but can anyone give me some pointers for doing extra large size clones? I think I might need something bigger to wrap em with, maybe a cut pot with some coco? The tallest branch will become the new mom.

Hoping the large clones can be ready to go in one month to run along side their single plant RDWC monster mother!

Grow Tech · Nov 7, 2016

I've done small-ish air layers using rapid rooters but always used moss for larger ones. I've never pH'ed the water I used to moisten either one but it doesn't sound like a bad idea.
What i have found is that the tighter the wrap the better. Thay means you squeeze out a lot of the water your medium is holding as you do your wrap. With that in mind, I'd throughly moisten whatever medium you use.
I personally would use gel. My understanding is that the gels promote root initiation but in large amounts retard root growth....that could just be Bro Science though

Drop That Sound · Nov 9, 2016

Update: Stopped by the local shop and picked up some root-tech gel. The clonex guy rolled through there earlier too and my buddy that works there hooked it up! Got some free clonex stickers, 100 pack of root riot plugs, couple packs of clonex root maximizer, a cool plastic clonex tray and some other goodies.

I plan on using the root riots, and thought maybe on the biggest cuts I want to take, to use 3 plugs wrapped around it instead of just one cut like a hot dog bun. From what i've read I'm worried the roots from a huge cutting like that will suck 1 plug dry in no time. I'll use zip ties to hold the 3 plugs together tight around the stalk. Then cover with plastic wrap and poke a few holes for air.

I got a 10 ml syringe to inject water and clonex solution when needed. The plugs are already moist so i'm choosing not to soak them, and wait until wrapped to inject any water, so It doesn't make a mess dripping everywhere.

Will update with pics soon, about to go for it. Going to do about 15-20 layers and take out a huge section from the middle of the plant! Also going to so some on the bottom suckers that get no light.

As of now my only real questions are:

1. Should I back off on the lighting or just keep going full blast (8 lamp t5)?

2. Should I use plain water or add some clonex solution before I hydrate the plugs, figuring small 500ml batches so like 2.5 ml of solution to the bottle of water, sound good?

Big CLones · Nov 9, 2016

Just a word or two of encouragement....

I havent taken a normal clone in months....

All me clones come from air layering......

WHy more folks dont to it is somewhat of a mystery to me.....

Good Luck....

Drop That Sound · Nov 28, 2016

Update 2: Finally got around to it a week ago, hoping to see some roots by next weekend! Been injecting the plugs with about .5 to 1 ml of either plain water or light clonex solution every other day. It was back breaking work bending way out over a large flat plant in the middle to do the surgeries, but must be done as I have less than 6 ft ceiling in the room.

I Have been pony tailing the branches around, which are all mostly the plants tops, so that light gets underneath them where the scrog net will soon sit. Working good and the underbrush is liking it! It makes sooo much sense to me now, to air layer if you like to grow huge single plants scrog style, I would of had to waste so many branches in the center that overgrew, to keep her in check.

I thought about stringing some Xmas lights around the root plugs with a temp controller to help keep them warm and speed up the process, let me know if anyone thinks it would work?

Looking at the size and amount of clones I'll be taking, is probably at least 25-30% of the total plant mass (not including the roots), so I will take the smaller cuts first and hold off on the large new mom branch, and the bigger ones till towards the end of say a week from taking the first few off. Just keep them propped up and scrog around them and cut later so I don't stress the plant out too bad.. by taking to much at once. Not sure if it matters to the plant when it comes to air layering with extra roots vs just cutting but seems like the best approach. Will be swapping for HPS and flipping by the time I cut the last big clones.

Thanks and will be back with an update next weekend, until then here is some pictures from last weekends operation:

Drop That Sound · Nov 28, 2016

A few more:

Drop That Sound · Dec 13, 2016

Update 3: BOOM! Most bad ass thing i've seen lately, all my air layers are rooting like crazy. Some are as big if not bigger than 2+ month old plants, must say that I am very happy! Took a little longer than I thought it would but then again it's been freezing lately and temps and humidity have been real low in the room. A few of them turned yellow and appear to have a mag deficiency but I think they will be fine.

The smallest one has the most roots so far and will will be cut first, probably just cut all the smallest ones right away. As for the rest I am going to add some coco around the plugs to make darn well sure they can support themselves before I cut, then toss a plastic grocery sack over each individual clone right after I do and keep a close eye on them.

Be back soon with more updates and pics! :watchplant:

Big CLones · Dec 13, 2016

As I said....Im not sure why more people arent doing air layering....

I havent taken a clone in months......I dont think Im that stupid.....

Like you I started with rooter plugs....

I then got rid of the plugs and moved to plastic wrap and coco.... 3 or 4 times the volume of the plug....

One thing you might consider...... I do a nice sized bundle of coco..... then when it has some roots..... transplant to a one liter bottle..... the transplant is done with the air layer still attached to mom....Im ok with the additional time expanding its roots.....

The larger air layer the more careful you need to have enough roots for a smooth transition to a plant.....

Funny..... some plants consume its biggest leaves.....and some show no damage at all....

Drop That Sound · Dec 13, 2016

I am definitely a fan of your work...

How does a mini resealed cup dwc air layer sound? I am going to drop a few of them in buckets but still planning to use coco on most, but thought I might try a hydro air layer before one gets chopped. Was thinking hot glue to seal around the stalk and cup. I burn myself with hot glue all the time so I think the lower stalk can handle it too :hotbounce

I am totally open to other experimentation if anyone has any suggestions.

Unfortunately I don't see the cuts and prop tech area of the forum receiving a whole lot of traffic so many probably won't ever even see this thread, but that's cool.

Oh and here is some pics from a few weeks ago showing how I've been pony tailing most the air clones to prepare for the scrog net.

Drop That Sound · Dec 13, 2016

Also though about just sticking a branch down in the res, to see if its possible to root out the very de-leafed tip of a branch, making the actual cut the new top, and forcing the clone to grow upside down if that makes sense. Maybe the lower leaves would flip upside down on there own as they become the new top. Mad science!

Big CLones · Dec 14, 2016

Drop That Sound said:
I am definitely a fan of your work...

You know who I am????

SOmehow one of the folks up the food chain decided to lock me out of my account and it didnt set all that well with me....

I was working on an air layering thread.....which I refuse to finish unless I get my account back.....

Drop That Sound · Dec 14, 2016

Ya it totally occurred to me today, I posted there in hopes of support and looks like I got my wish but didn't know it till now lol. It seems like the most beneficial people on here always get the boot or disappear for some reason. Higher up's obviously have ties with companies that could go out of business if more people knew how simply our ancestors did it.

I have no qualms at this point about waiting to put the screen on, and proud of my new skill. Seeing the roots come out of "1/2 and bigger stalks is even better than a harvest to me for some reason?

I killed or gave away all my little cuttings that I was working on, and my super hybrid DIY cloning machine just sits unused now. All you really need is a small area with a mother plant and a light and some plugs it seems. Kill 3 birds with one stone

I am also going to air layer and learn to graft about 20 medium/large fruit trees that need to removed on a property starting this spring. Every branch will be a new tree! Thats like +1000 trees that will be selectively spread back over 10 acres. The remaining 1/2 acre or so plot will be turned into organic farm land and green houses after the stumps get pulled out. They are interfering with power and water lines after 10 years so have to go sadly, but with this method they will all be saved! At least the best growing ones, including a variety of apples, pears, peaches, etc.

I hope you do get it back, and thanks for the encouragement!

Betterhaff · Dec 14, 2016

What’s the old saying…if it ain’t broke don’t fix. But with that logic how do you know if there’s not a better way?

In regards to the rooting hormone, it’s my understanding that its affects are almost immediate (absorption) and less is better than more. You mentioned you fed with a clonex solution throughout the rooting process, what was the concentration or was it straight?

Also, congrats on your success.

Drop That Sound · Dec 15, 2016

Betterhaff: Thank you, not expecting 100% on the 11 layers but would be awesome!

They say to use 5-10ml per liter so i started at like 2 or 3 ml per, sometimes just plain water as I figured there are probably some residuals.

Went pretty light on the root-tech gel just enough to skim coat it before the plugs went on. I did scrape some skin just above the girdles on most the air layers. Even tried a few different ways of removing the bark but forgot now which ones as I didn't document everything like I should have.

I have now upped it to 5ml per liter and adding a drop or 2 of Rapid start. I have to make a run to pickup up coco tomorrow, they are sucking the plugs within the day on the ones I only used one plug now. Wish I just used my 3 plug technique on all but honestly I don't even like "root rots" because they seem to attract mildew and sometimes pests in my experience after transplanting to whatever hydro mediums I was using.

I am going to possibly be the first here to attempt a micro DWC air layer while still attached to the mom, with a super small air pump and stone, or just pump from the res up to the cup like a constant running ebb and flow, and a mini drain line back to the rest again. I do have a little air lift pump https://www.amazon.com/Aquarium-Lifter-3-5gph-inches-height/dp/B001BOD9JI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1481776044&sr=8-2&keywords=air+lift+pump that would work good for something like that.

We shall see how it go's, I must get them more medium ASAP!

Betterhaff · Dec 15, 2016

Interesting, so you’re diluting the rootech gel. As I mentioned before I was under the impression that rooting hormones affect the plant pretty quick so it’s not necessary to use a lot, but this was pertaining to powders. But if what you are doing is working, that’s all that matters.

Drop That Sound · Dec 16, 2016

Betterhaff said:
Interesting, so you’re diluting the rootech gel. As I mentioned before I was under the impression that rooting hormones affect the plant pretty quick so it’s not necessary to use a lot, but this was pertaining to powders. But if what you are doing is working, that’s all that matters.

Oh I was using the root tech gel as needed, It was the bottle of clonex solution (not clonex gel, didn't buy that because it comes in a plastic bag!?) that I was using with water to inject in. That is I brushed on the hormone first, and used clonex solution as well to keep the plugs wet with. Sorry for any confusion.

Update: I was trying to save money and bought a 5kg brick of coco gro, instead of the pre bagged stuff that cost almost 2 times as much and ends up being like 1/3 the amount. Haven't had a chance to saw off a chunk yet so I been having to inject clonex water like 2 times a day now.

Half the air layers are yellowing out on me but I see new green growth on the tips so they should be ok still. I went WAY to big on them for my first time I think. I had to keep the t5 on full blast because of temps, might have something to do with it. Its winter and I grow outside without much insulation in the rooms, not the best time to be cloning at all really. Room has been waaaay to low on temps and humidity. I'm talking like 50-65 degrees and 30-40 RH! Great for flowering not for vegging and cloning...

I'll get things done this weekend and report back!

Betterhaff · Dec 16, 2016

Got it, thanks for the clarification. Had me scratching my head a bit. With the cuts yellowing, maybe they could use a low dose of food, not getting enough from “mom” any more and they are now starting to utilize their own root system.

Facelesdoll · Dec 16, 2016

Has anyone else ever thought of using a candle stake? That way you can just split a little pop down the side into the center of the bottom and then you can actually make a potted plant with support coming up from the soil to that part of the Plant.

Drop That Sound · Dec 19, 2016

That seems like a good Idea Facelesdoll, you mean like a tiki torch pole? I grow hydro though so my plant is sitting in a 20 gallon tote and is over 6 feet wide. I'm just gonna hang strings to hold the plastic cup pots up tonight.

Betterhaff: I think I figured it out, I been using RO water from small drinking bottles and just realised it doesnt have any cal/mag in it. I Kinda figured the Clonex cutting AND seedling solution would take care of that and havent been PHing the water until now. Now im using a low nute dose (200-300ppm) and hoping I don't lose some of them that look real bad now.

Next time I will just use coco and really hit them with the right dose of nutes and probably skip the clonex altogether.

Drop That Sound · Dec 19, 2016

Update: Went ahead and cut the 2 smallest (but still big!) clones, they went straight into solo cups with coco, and into a 3.5 gallon bucket with plastic wrap on top for now. They look great

I'm wondering if I could of just cut them all and throw em in a bucket with an air stone and nutes, would make life sooo easy. I will be dedicating the one with the least amount of roots so far to try it out.

Probably will skip the DWC layer while still on the plant this time around, too much fooling around, the plant is still growing faster than I can take large branches off it seems! Cool with me though, as long as she stays flat. Not gonna have room for anymore plants this run so into a tent somewhere they will go, however a +2400 watt one plant scrog with 2 nets coming soon!

Help with air layering

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