My seedlings don't seem to make progress.Need your opinion!

420sm · Feb 15, 2016

hi everyone

nutrients I will be using this grow

Advanced nutrients sensi coco A+B
AN Piranha
AN Rhino Skin
AN B-52
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT] these are all ph perfect line.

1)should I give plain water and ph it down to an acceptable level while doing so?
read the internet posts that are coco related.
Some people say you need to give them plain water between waterings, especially after feeding. that is for removing the salt buildup. I am afraid of doing so as my tap is about 8 and I need to ph down it to 6. Yet others say "dont give plain water or flush the coco as it will throw the buffer off balance and cause irrrepairable damage." Confused.

2)does ph perfect need ph balancing? DO I Need to Buy any ph down product or a Ph pen?
at the moment I dont have any ph down, because I could not make my mind up about buying one. As some people say you should never check or adjust the ph with the ph perfect line as this will cause more problems as the nutrient has some buffers itself to balance the ph.

P.S. : ATM I dont have any ph pen, only GH liquid ph test kit( I am not comfortable with colors so I dont feel content with the readings I have now). I dont want to invest into sth without knowing it will be crucial.

I havent started feeding them with nutes except that I added 1 ml of piranha to stimulate roots to 2 liters of water.2 days ago I gave 4 plants a total of 2 liters water without runoff.

Today, Seeing the top of the coco is very dry I sprayed the water going in circles around the plant. Not directly to the rootzone, but by going around it. As I am afraid of drowning it by overwatering.

what should I do now?

Details and pics ( I try to give as much as detail as possible so that you can tell me if something is not what it should be)
Strains
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]sensi skunk#1 auto[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]sensi northern lights auto[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]royal queen seeds royal dwarf auto[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]royal queen seeds amnesia haze auto

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]The seeds were planted on 8th of february, they sprouted 11th of february.(4-5 days ago)

they are on a 18/6 schedule.
2 of them are on regular 12 liter pots 2 of them are airpots 11.4 liters
all pots have around %20 perlite and 2 layers(2-3cm) of hydroton at the bottom of the pot
400w philips metal halide lamp is hanging over 75 cm height above the plants(is that too far?)
the temps are around 21-23 when the lights are off
when it is on it is around 26-29 celcius. i dont let it go to over 29celcius generally.
My humidifier is set to 60RH , it is working at full strength but the humidity sometimes drops to 40. Generally it is around 50RH.
a small fan is blowing over the stems at the lowest speed, it is hardly making them swing, so in my opinion it should not do any harm. Any opinion?

Here are the seedlings , I might be paranoid but it seems like they are not making progress since they sprouted, or I am expecting too much?

420sm · Feb 15, 2016

I can not edit the post,I forgot to add that the coco brand is "biobizz coco mix"

Ganjagrower1 · Feb 15, 2016

420sm said:
hi everyone

nutrients I will be using this grow

Advanced nutrients sensi coco A+B
AN Piranha
AN Rhino Skin
AN B-52
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT] these are all ph perfect line.

1)should I give plain water and ph it down to an acceptable level while doing so?
read the internet posts that are coco related.
Some people say you need to give them plain water between waterings, especially after feeding. that is for removing the salt buildup. I am afraid of doing so as my tap is about 8 and I need to ph down it to 6. Yet others say "dont give plain water or flush the coco as it will throw the buffer off balance and cause irrrepairable damage." Confused.

2)does ph perfect need ph balancing? DO I Need to Buy any ph down product or a Ph pen?
at the moment I dont have any ph down, because I could not make my mind up about buying one. As some people say you should never check or adjust the ph with the ph perfect line as this will cause more problems as the nutrient has some buffers itself to balance the ph.

P.S. : ATM I dont have any ph pen, only GH liquid ph test kit( I am not comfortable with colors so I dont feel content with the readings I have now). I dont want to invest into sth without knowing it will be crucial.

I havent started feeding them with nutes except that I added 1 ml of piranha to stimulate roots to 2 liters of water.2 days ago I gave 4 plants a total of 2 liters water without runoff.

Today, Seeing the top of the coco is very dry I sprayed the water going in circles around the plant. Not directly to the rootzone, but by going around it. As I am afraid of drowning it by overwatering.

what should I do now?

Details and pics ( I try to give as much as detail as possible so that you can tell me if something is not what it should be)
Strains
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]sensi skunk#1 auto[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]sensi northern lights auto[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]royal queen seeds royal dwarf auto[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]royal queen seeds amnesia haze auto

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]The seeds were planted on 8th of february, they sprouted 11th of february.(4-5 days ago)

they are on a 18/6 schedule.
2 of them are on regular 12 liter pots 2 of them are airpots 11.4 liters
all pots have around %20 perlite and 2 layers(2-3cm) of hydroton at the bottom of the pot
400w philips metal halide lamp is hanging over 75 cm height above the plants(is that too far?)
the temps are around 21-23 when the lights are off
when it is on it is around 26-29 celcius. i dont let it go to over 29celcius generally.
My humidifier is set to 60RH , it is working at full strength but the humidity sometimes drops to 40. Generally it is around 50RH.
a small fan is blowing over the stems at the lowest speed, it is hardly making them swing, so in my opinion it should not do any harm. Any opinion?

Here are the seedlings , I might be paranoid but it seems like they are not making progress since they sprouted, or I am expecting too much?

View attachment 349637

View attachment 349638

View attachment 349639

View attachment 349640

View attachment 349641

On the ph perfect stuff it doesn't really mean you are going to be in the ph you are wanting. You are going to want to get a ph pen of some kind before to long because all sorts of stuff my happen you don't want. You don't ever want to do just plain water between feelings. Just start out with a light feeding and stick with that for a little bit. Then you can bump it up a little when they get astablished with the roots system. You don't want to water to much that way you don't over water. You probably won't get to many responses on here people seems to lurk more then they want to help. Happy growing.

420sm · Feb 15, 2016

Ganjagrower1 said:
On the ph perfect stuff it doesn't really mean you are going to be in the ph you are wanting. You are going to want to get a ph pen of some kind before to long because all sorts of stuff my happen you don't want. You don't ever want to do just plain water between feelings. Just start out with a light feeding and stick with that for a little bit. Then you can bump it up a little when they get astablished with the roots system. You don't want to water to much that way you don't over water. You probably won't get to many responses on here people seems to lurk more then they want to help. Happy growing.

Advanced nutrients calculator says I need to add 4ml to 1 liter.Is that for the whole week? lets say I mixed 4 ml with one liter and I needed to add more as there was no waste to the bottom. Should I make another 4ml to 1 liter mix and feed with it?

I am confused and appreciate if you could help me.

Ganjagrower1 · Feb 15, 2016

420sm said:
Advanced nutrients calculator says I need to add 4ml to 1 liter.Is that for the whole week? lets say I mixed 4 ml with one liter and I needed to add more as there was no waste to the bottom. Should I make another 4ml to 1 liter mix and feed with it?

I am confused and appreciate if you could help me.

Advanced tells you 4 ml per liter but I wouldn't go by that I would cut that at least by half. At that size I might even go with 1 ml per liter to start. That way you are not giving them to much. Are you using tap water or RO water.

GonjaLove · Feb 15, 2016

Your seedlings aren't making progress because you're probably only watering those pots like once a week. The key with coco is start small and work your way up to pots that size. I know people that finish in the pots you have seedlings in. Get them in beer cups and get a fan blowing across them. I start with beer cups for a week or so, let some roots build. Then I go to 2 gal and that's it. You're def gonna want to get a ph pen too. Not something to skimp on...atleast for early on til you get your nute regimen down.

420sm · Feb 15, 2016

Ganjagrower1 said:
Advanced tells you 4 ml per liter but I wouldn't go by that I would cut that at least by half. At that size I might even go with 1 ml per liter to start. That way you are not giving them to much. Are you using tap water or RO water.

I am using tap water. But I havent adjusted the ph as I dont have ph down yet.

Ganjagrower1 · Feb 15, 2016

420sm said:
I am using tap water. But I havent adjusted the ph as I dont have ph down yet.

You are going to need ph down especially growing in coco due to needing the ph to be 5.8 - 6.2. I like to keep it at 5.8 which is optimum in coco.

bushed · Feb 15, 2016

Your coco looks really dry in the pictures, give them a really good water and they will grow

HHULKK · Feb 15, 2016

420sm said:
Advanced nutrients calculator says I need to add 4ml to 1 liter.Is that for the whole week? lets say I mixed 4 ml with one liter and I needed to add more as there was no waste to the bottom. Should I make another 4ml to 1 liter mix and feed with it?

I am confused and appreciate if you could help me.

to answer the other part of your question. yes u would need to mix an additional batch of nutrient solution if you need more "nutes" to feed to runoff. mix at the same concentration as before. in this case, the same 4ml per liter.
I also recommend reducing the nutrient strength as 4ml per liter is considered full dose and that would be a very strong solution for your seedlings. 1-2ml per liter is quarter to half strength and I feel that should be a good starting point for your seedlings. gl

BCNeil · Feb 15, 2016

I agree with Gonjalove.

Starting seeds in large containers of coco is probably not the best for a beginner.
Red beer cups with a hole in the bottom.
Much easier to use an EC meter than instructions on a bottle. Most nute companies want you to use too much. One of the hydro stores near me did a test with AN nutes.
Mixed up a batch of their full line, with their recommended amounts. Worked out to 2.3 EC. I get my best results in the 1-1.4 range.

jammie · Feb 15, 2016

check your temperature. if its too cold it will slow growth. also i don't start nutes till the 3rd set of true leaves. you look like your barely at 2

thesloppy · Feb 15, 2016

I don't know shit, but: them's some big ass pots for some little plants.

...also agree with no nutes until showing at least a couple nodes, and since you'll be running all/mostly tap water in the early stages some sort of PH measuring/balancing would definitely help, regardless of whether your nutes are PH buffered or not. If you're watering with tap water knowing the default PH is essential.

Jellyfish · Feb 15, 2016

thesloppy said:
I don't know shit, but: them's some big ass pots for some little plants.

That's right, and that's your problem right there, imo.

You need to either keep ALL that coco moist or better yet, put those little seedlings in solo cups or yogurt cups. Those will dry out every day or two, depending on your relative humidity, and then you will know when/how often to water.

Mikell · Feb 15, 2016

as said, get them out of those giant pots.

Read the stickies. Buy pH/EC pens or combo meter. Reread the stickies. Don't treat it like soil.

The more you read the better. Learn from others mistakes, coir is a unique medium.

Feeding seedlings is contentious. There is a side by side experiment on this forum disproving the old rule of thumb of one, two or three sets of leaves. One experiment doesn't prove anything but the need for more, although it stands to some of our logic.

Shokunin · Feb 15, 2016

GonjaLove said:
Your seedlings aren't making progress because you're probably only watering those pots like once a week. The key with coco is start small and work your way up to pots that size. I know people that finish in the pots you have seedlings in. Get them in beer cups and get a fan blowing across them. I start with beer cups for a week or so, let some roots build. Then I go to 2 gal and that's it. You're def gonna want to get a ph pen too. Not something to skimp on...atleast for early on til you get your nute regimen down.

Well said, would rep if I could! :tiphat:

420sm · Feb 15, 2016

Mikell said:
as said, get them out of those giant pots.

Read the stickies. Buy pH/EC pens or combo meter. Reread the stickies. Don't treat it like soil.

The more you read the better. Learn from others mistakes, coir is a unique medium.

Feeding seedlings is contentious. There is a side by side experiment on this forum disproving the old rule of thumb of one, two or three sets of leaves. One experiment doesn't prove anything but the need for more, although it stands to some of our logic.

could you please point me to that experiment?
could not understand which one you were referring to?

it was my mistake putting the seeds in their final containers I know, but the mistake comes from the idea that you should not transplant auto strains because that may slow down their growth.
So I put them in their final containers

thinking they might stress out during the transplant.

What is the main logic behind this? if they start in big pots do they dry out quicker?
I have read too much stuff but my memory is full of work s*** and whatnot so I can not recall most of the stuff I have read. I have probably read that logic behind solo cups :comfort:

Shokunin · Feb 16, 2016

Smaller container = faster times establishing roots = more waterings. If you were to attempt to water everyday in that container you'd turn it into sludge, but an expansive root system could make use of it before it becomes anaerobic

Unclecrash · Feb 16, 2016

If you run RO water like AN says the PH perfect will work every time and set your ph @ 5.8 to 5.9 and it will stay there for about a week! No need for a ph pen with RO and AN PH perfect it is fun to try and catch it out of wack , but it was right on every time I bothered to check it.

Mikell · Feb 16, 2016

By the time the pot dries to the point one would water, the root zone around the seedling is bone dry. With a pot that large you're waiting on evaporation rather than water uptake.

Spot watering (as you are doing) allows the outer medium to overly dry (becoming inhospitable to roots), and keeps the centre too moist or hard to gauge (under and over watering).

All of this creates more variables, when as a newer grower your task is to reduce variables. When (and it will, as you've seen) something goes wrong it is simpler to diagnose the issue correctly.

I'm fairly sure it was posted in the side by side subforum. "seedling feed side by side"

My seedlings don't seem to make progress.Need your opinion!

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