SECOND GROW ATTEMPT - 4x4 - 315W 4200K GREENBEAMS CMH - 2x Green Crack Afghani - RDWC

After a failed first attempt with some PM clones I picked up unwittingly, I am starting fresh in basically the same system with two new Green Crack Afghani teens.

I received the teens with what looks like either nute burn or heat stress (any thoughts? should i remove those leaves or clip them?), but most of the newer growth leaves appear to be okay.

The setup:

Strain:
-2x Green Crack X Afghani

GCA #1:



GCA #1 nute burn?:



GCA #2:



GCA #2 (less nute burn than GCA #1):



Flowering Time:
-10-12 Weeks

Grow Medium:
-2x 6" Net Pots w/ Hydroton

Hydro System:
-Home-made RDWC - 2x 5 Gallon Buckets
-ECO4 Air pump - Home-made airstone and store bought airstone in each bucket.
-20 Gallon Plastic Reservoir with Ice Packs for temp control (1/10hp chiller arrives tomorrow!)
-Water pump running to feed lines (will run to chiller send).

Environment:
-4x4 Reflective Tent
-2x 6" 240CFM Duct Fans
-1x CO2 Generator bucket (CO2 outlet shoved into intake duct)
-Home-made ONA Bucket for odor control (connected to tent outlet, on timer)

Lighting:
-1x Greenbeams 315W CMH Reflector w/ Remote Ballast and Phillips 942 4200K Bulb (intend to use for veg AND flowering)
-Currently running 18/6

Nutrients/PH/Monitoring:
-1x GH Flora Starter Pack
-PH UP/DOWN Solution
-1x Blue Combo PH/EC/PPM/Temp Meter
-Current Water Temp 66 Deg F (chiller coming)
-They are currently in 6.0PH water with a very low dose of micro, root starter and grow nutes (only ~410PPM and my tap is around 200PPM (500PPM scale)).

I added a new chiller to my setup last night, so no more changing ice packs!

The chiller is sitting outside the tent and I am in a basement in a cold state - so there is no heat concern having it near the tent (I actually run a small heater to the intake on the tent for a couple hours at night during lights off). It barely seems to run for long, and since I only have about 11 total gallons of water it chills VERY quickly. It is the AACH10 unit.



I ran the receive on the chiller to my pump in the reservoir and the send directly to the feed lines.



I posted a question in another thread about the yellowing on some of the lower leaves and what looks like nute burn on MOST leaves on GCA #1 (some on GCA #2). Got a few responses and going to wait it out to see how they are doing in a few days and expect to lose those lower yellow leaves that probably got dunked too much during transplant and root rinsing. I was originally running about 1/4 dose of nutes (grow and micro only), but I gave them clean water and 1/2 dose using the LUCAS formula for veg today. My tap water is still at about 250 PPM (.5 conversion) and I have an RO system on the way for the next reservoir change.

I also added some CalMag (about 4 tsp) and 10 tsp of Hydroguard today (hoping to prevent root rot since there are still small bits of coco/soil mixed in with the roots).

Here are some pics of the tops of the plants, which seem to be loving it under the 315W CMH bulb (definitely taller than when I got them 6 days ago):

GCA #1:


GCA #2:


I also setup an ONA bucket that runs directly from the exhaust on the tent and is on a timer to only run a couple hours a day. I am using MOSTLY water with a little bit of fresh linen ONA gel in there. Working great so far but the girls don't have much smell yet.



If they look happy in the morning I am thinking about switching to flower tomorrow since that will be day 7 post transplant and they aren't dead yet.

More updates to come!

hello,

i came here from the other thread, nice thread you have going!!!

i would consider topping them prior to inducing flowering (just the tops, not the side branches (atleast yet, if wanted) a couple of times, they look quite sativa dominant (also referancing flowring time).

also with clones, stretch, the growth can be irregular and the merri/dominant stems can shoot up leaving smaller ones behind causing problems with the light on top not reaching the lesser ones.

i am not sure they will be big yielders, but i grew a "skunk x indica" hybrid, with a similar structure that turned out v.potent.

> if you get tight afghani pearl nugs on the stems, then i think it's going to be good (re: refering to potential in the other thread) !.

(said tentitively).

topping will add some time, but will definately be worth it for yield and also hopefully the floral clusters will finish at closer to the same time as opposed to incremental harvesting etc

will be following, by all means p.m. for any questions (...although i might be talking bullshit (??)) (don't like to spam peoples threads etc)

have fun.

Collembola said:

hello,

i came here from the other thread, nice thread you have going!!!

i would consider topping them prior to inducing flowering (just the tops, not the side branches (atleast yet, if wanted) a couple of times, they look quite sativa dominant (also referancing flowring time).

also with clones, stretch, the growth can be irregular and the merri/dominant stems can shoot up leaving smaller ones behind causing problems with the light on top not reaching the lesser ones.

i am not sure they will be big yielders, but i grew a "skunk x indica" hybrid, with a similar structure that turned out v.potent.

> if you get tight afghani pearl nugs on the stems, then i think it's going to be good (re: refering to potential in the other thread) !.

(said tentitively).

topping will add some time, but will definately be worth it for yield and also hopefully the floral clusters will finish at closer to the same time as opposed to incremental harvesting etc

will be following, by all means p.m. for any questions (...although i might be talking bullshit (??)) (don't like to spam peoples threads etc)

have fun.

Click to expand...

Thanks Collembola! I was thinking about topping them as well but am hesitant since this is my first grow and i dont want to F$&% them up...going to read some more into topping today.

If I do top them today - should I let them grow another week before switching to flower? Thanks again for the input!!

hehe, sorry,

let spam commence;

topping is no problem for the plants, like you could "top" 50%+ of the whole plant if you wanted, or just a little tip.

i wouldn't bother reading about fiming etc, you just snip / pull off the end, by where you want the side branches to take over, you don't have to be delicate etc, just taking away 1 possibily for growth, so then it gets divided into the ones below (like pipes of water (plant makes the pipes, we choose the flow (team effort!).

----------------

it is best to wait a while for the new growth to develop, but this is good, because the side branches will hopefully catch up, gaining more of a share of the light

(the plant has to heal the stem you have removed and also tell itself it has new primary brances etc or something).

also, here, you want the new tops to develop secondary branches, ideally because they become flowers (evener canopy, more flower sites > more yield / *"evening of quality", but you have to wait.

although it is dependant on structure, like some plants do not produce side branching well ("columnar"), yours look like good branchers, but quite stretchy (ideal for topping imho), also you have alot of horizontal space you can fill.

*it's not all as good as it sounds though, because topping reduces flower size (i.e. no "donkey dick flowers" (if that phrase is still applicable nowadays (?))

and also, there is an evening / "sharing" of light / thus quality, so less "special flowers that you save at the bottom of the jar" etc.

--------

i would do this:



either location 1 or 2,

1 will be less intensive, although ideally you may want to also top the 2 tops you have again, to make 4 "primarys" (because i think
they may stretch quote alot)

2 may not be ideal if you are pushed for time etc, but :

--------

here is a basic light distance chart:



you can see, comparing a 250w to a 400w hps, a 250w gives a plant MORE lumens at 5", then a 400w does at 7" (...potentially MASSIVE waste of electricity (OR "really special top flowers" (depending on how you look at things), for only 2" differential !!! (although you obviously don't want to frazzle them or anything)

(you would imagine your light to be much more efficient though, think that's from ages ago, bulbs will be alot better nowadays etc)

----------------

the whole or the above though is just describing pinching off a little bit of the end of a plant, it is really that simple (hope i have not daunted you / overcomplicated or anything)

regards

Collembola said:

hehe, sorry,

let spam commence;

topping is no problem for the plants, like you could "top" 50%+ of the whole plant if you wanted, or just a little tip.

i wouldn't bother reading about fiming etc, you just snip / pull off the end, by where you want the side branches to take over, you don't have to be delicate etc, just taking away 1 possibily for growth, so then it gets divided into the ones below (like pipes of water (plant makes the pipes, we choose the flow (team effort!).

----------------

it is best to wait a while for the new growth to develop, but this is good, because the side branches will hopefully catch up, gaining more of a share of the light

(the plant has to heal the stem you have removed and also tell itself it has new primary brances etc or something).

also, here, you want the new tops to develop secondary branches, ideally because they become flowers (evener canopy, more flower sites > more yield / *"evening of quality", but you have to wait.

although it is dependant on structure, like some plants do not produce side branching well ("columnar"), yours look like good branchers, but quite stretchy (ideal for topping imho), also you have alot of horizontal space you can fill.

*it's not all as good as it sounds though, because topping reduces flower size (i.e. no "donkey dick flowers" (if that phrase is still applicable nowadays (?))

and also, there is an evening / "sharing" of light / thus quality, so less "special flowers that you save at the bottom of the jar" etc.

--------

i would do this:

View Image

either location 1 or 2,

1 will be less intensive, although ideally you may want to also top the 2 tops you have again, to make 4 "primarys" (because i think
they may stretch quote alot)

2 may not be ideal if you are pushed for time etc, but :

--------

here is a basic light distance chart:

View Image

you can see, comparing a 250w to a 400w hps, a 250w gives a plant MORE lumens at 5", then a 400w does at 7" (...potentially MASSIVE waste of electricity (OR "really special top flowers" (depending on how you look at things), for only 2" differential !!! (although you obviously don't want to frazzle them or anything)

(you would imagine your light to be much more efficient though, think that's from ages ago, bulbs will be alot better nowadays etc)

----------------

the whole or the above though is just describing pinching off a little bit of the end of a plant, it is really that simple (hope i have not daunted you / overcomplicated or anything)

regards

Click to expand...

Wow Collembola - thank you so much for this information. Since I don't think I care too much about getting a crazy yield from these girls and it's my first grow ever - I am switching them to 12/12 tonight and going to see how they perform.

I realized I had the flower time incorrect in my original post - these are actually 8 week flowering plants.

P.S. - I do like the idea of some big pretty top nugs (special ones for my jar) and don't mind that some of the lower flowers won't develop as well.

Thanks again!

I'm lurkin waitin to see how this goes! Good luck!

timmur said:

I'm lurkin waitin to see how this goes! Good luck!

Click to expand...

thanks timmur!

growforme said:

Wow Collembola - thank you so much for this information. Since I don't think I care too much about getting a crazy yield from these girls and it's my first grow ever - I am switching them to 12/12 tonight and going to see how they perform.

Click to expand...

i would sleep on it, but please i am no means trying to tell you what to do etc;

when you flip, the stretch can be quite dramatic, and lesser stemmed plants again; there will be more growth within the dominant branches.

i.e. "there is most pressure at the end of the pipe", factoring in a duration of 3-4 weeks (guessing) = up and up and up.

(and also "donkey dicks come with alot of popcorn").

but i am going to STFU, sorry,

regards

Collembola said:

i would sleep on it, but please i am no means trying to tell you what to do etc;

when you flip, the stretch can be quite dramatic, and lesser stemmed plants again; there will be more growth within the dominant branches.

i.e. "there is most pressure at the end of the pipe", factoring in a duration of 3-4 weeks (guessing) = up and up and up.

(and also "donkey dicks come with alot of popcorn").

but i am going to STFU, sorry,

regards

Click to expand...

LOL - definitely DON'T STFU - I appreciate all of your input. I did indeed switch my timer to 12/12 starting tomorrow, but I should still have a day or two to top them without doing too much harm if I change my mind (from what I've read).

I spoke with the grower who gave me the teens today, and he ensured me they will finish it 8 weeks and are indica dominant so they shouldn't finish too big. I think they look like sativas because he trimmed a few of the bushier spots and most have over-fed them a little (hence the burns).

I know I can run them almost directly under this light because it feels like a CFL when I put my hand near it - there is almost NO HEAT felt 8-12" below the bulb when its been on for over 10 hours. I think I should have enough room in the tent and am going to risk it. Being my first grow - I want to focus on getting the nutrients/water/environment correct and making sure they continue to survive and thrive post-transplant.

I did A LOT of reading on this and other forums today as well and it seems like topping is a GREAT way to get a more even canopy for light absorption and uniform budding sites - however - I have also researching SCROG and LST and think I might try to employ that in a future grow. More to come!

i dunno, i know you can get variances in the wild, narrow leaf dominant indicas blah blah, and some afghani #1 are all over

like there's botany terms, geographical / commercial terms, language differences, human error.

but generally, plants need fuck off stems to support massive flowers, and afgani is know to have massive flowers.

---------------

but that might just mean, i think you are going to need a bucket load of bamboo canes or a scrog net !!!...

i would probably be inclined to leave them also in that case, like either OR,

save the topping for more compliant genetics when you have more time, as it could turn out lessening harvest to do things rushed.

--------------

sooooo many variables to consider though, interestingly or annoyingly otherwise.

like you can inspect every micro-element of your environment,

myriad of things to tinker with to improve efficiency

--------------

my plants are seemingly starting senecence @ week 4 flowering (to put things into perspective also..)

> not your greatest grower...

it's all good fun though, and the hobby can last as long as you do...

(seriously though, going to STFU, atleast for today)

regards

Despite some very sound advice to top these plants from experienced growers on this forum - I made a noob choice and switched the girls to flower starting today (day 8 since I got the teens). I got my new RO system today (0 ppm, yay!), and did a full system cleaning and gave the 1/2 dose of calmag and GH nutes using 1/2 dose of Lucas flower formula. I also gave a full dose of Hydroguard.

Flower Day #1:

GCA #1:


GCA #2:



Also - I think the hydroguard and frequent system cleaning is helping, as I have bright white roots poking through the net pots now in abundance I believe these will take over the old brown looking roots that are half dead from the transplant.

GCA #1 Roots:


GCA #2 Roots:

Update - Girls are happy today and new roots are coming in quick! Still running a low PPM nute dosage considering I got the girls with nute burn already. If they are still doing well in a few days I will up the dosage to FULL Lucas flower formula (and some more hydroguard).

Flower Day 5:

GCA #1:



GCA #2:



GCA #1 New Roots -



GCA #2 New Roots -

Haven't read your full post, but are you using any type of bacteria? Im using "Great White" and have awesome roots. First time DWC with little maintance, just making sure temps stay under 70° THE SECOND PIC HAS POOR LIGHTING/COLOR, BUT ROOTS ARE BEAUTIFUL WHITE!

Dr.Greenthmb420 said:

Haven't read your full post, but are you using any type of bacteria? Im using "Great White" and have awesome roots. First time DWC with little maintance, just making sure temps stay under 70° THE SECOND PIC HAS POOR LIGHTING/COLOR, BUT ROOTS ARE BEAUTIFUL WHITE!

View Image View Image

Click to expand...

Thanks for stopping by!

I sure am - I am using Hydroguard and have a chiller running to keep the water at a perfect 66 degrees. The older brown roots you see (which are being eaten by healthy white roots now) are from the transplant and were darker than that when I pulled the teens from the soil/coco mix. Happy with the new white roots taking over!!

growforme said:

Thanks for stopping by!

I sure am - I am using Hydroguard and have a chiller running to keep the water at a perfect 66 degrees. The older brown roots you see (which are being eaten by healthy white roots now) are from the transplant and were darker than that when I pulled the teens from the soil/coco mix. Happy with the new white roots taking over!!

Click to expand...

Also meant to add - nice roots! Those look very healthy and hope to see mine in a similar shape in a few weeks

Ive heard good things about Hydroguard too. Looking forward to seeing more!

Lookin good growforme!

timmur said:

Lookin good growforme!

Click to expand...

Thank you sir!!

2/25/2016 Update - Girls looking very happy today. Did a full system flush yesterday and refilled with RO water and a about 3/4 dose of Lucas formula for flower (current PPM about 730 @.5). Full dose of hydroguard yesterday as well. Hope to see some buds forming in the next couple weeks!

Only thing that has me slightly concerned is the color of my stalks, which are almost a dark purple color now. I reached out to my grower to see if he knows if this is a genetic characteristic, but if not, I am thinking it is some kind of deficiency or that they are getting too cold at night (lowest temp ever in the temp was 58 - try to keep it above 65 at night).

Flower Day 8 (Week 2):

GCA #1:



GCA #2:



GCA #1 Root Growth:



GCA #1 Top Flower: