Too many bud sites = airy buds?

ChenBenTz · Nov 1, 2015

Under my current ScrOG, the plants have grown more than I thought they would.

The result is a LOT of bud sites and a very full screen.

I'm wondering - would it have been better to have flowered them earlier, so that there would be less bud sites and each bud would be thicker?

If so, would it hurt my yield overall, or would the yield be the same, just split into more buds?

Thanks!

Martha Focker · Nov 1, 2015

that's not what airy bud means.

ChenBenTz · Nov 1, 2015

Martha Focker said:
that's not what airy bud means.

Please, go on.

Martha Focker · Nov 2, 2015

when people say bud is airy they mean it's not dense like an indica but loose like sativa.

stolen from internet. airy is the bud on the right that is loose and fluffy, left is dense and more hard like a rock.

orechron · Nov 2, 2015

Heavy bud set in my experience seems to be correlated with a few things: genetics, light intensity, cytokinin>auxin dominance (bigger root zone with less foliage), enough food with an emphasis on base cations like Calcium (cell construction) and Potassium (sugar transport).

In pots that small relative to plant size it can be hard for even experienced gardeners to get them to stack well or set heavy buds. Are you in a peat based mix? If so make sure there is enough Ca either through lime or gypsum. Also top them a few times to get the root ball bigger than the foliage. They look pretty good though and the internode space isn't too wide. Any closer to the lights and they might bleach.

ChenBenTz · Nov 2, 2015

Martha Focker said:
when people say bud is airy they mean it's not dense like an indica but loose like sativa.

I see. Then what I meant was - will too many bud sites cause each bud to be smaller (regardless of density) and will it hurt overall yield?

orechron said:
In pots that small relative to plant size it can be hard for even experienced gardeners to get them to stack well or set heavy buds.

They're not small, actually. 5 Gallons.

Martha Focker · Nov 2, 2015

i haven't experienced it myself, but i've seen videos on youtube where they have smaller overall buds when there are more bud sites. i think the yield will be the same overall personally. just distributed into smaller buds. this is why people lollipop and things like that.

pot size depends on the media. when you are growing organic bigger pots help more. when using chemical ferts the pots don't need to be as big since you aren't relying on bacteria breaking down nutes to feed your plants.

ChenBenTz · Nov 2, 2015

Martha Focker said:
i haven't experienced it myself, but i've seen videos on youtube where they have smaller overall buds when there are more bud sites. i think the yield will be the same overall personally. just distributed into smaller buds. this is why people lollipop and things like that.

pot size depends on the media. when you are growing organic bigger pots help more. when using chemical ferts the pots don't need to be as big since you aren't relying on bacteria breaking down nutes to feed your plants.

I did lollipop. Should I have flowered earlier or cut down some bud sites?

Would it be better then to use 10 gallon pots (instead of the 5 gallon pots I'm currently using) and flower early?

olekingkole · Nov 2, 2015

The roots may not fill out the pots completely if you use 10 gal. pots and flower early. That means the pots will dry slower and less air exchange in the soil. I would stick with the 5's, they seem to be working fine. For bigger buds, add more light.

soserthc1 · Nov 2, 2015

ChenBenTz said:
I did lollipop. Should I have flowered earlier or cut down some bud sites?

Would it be better then to use 10 gallon pots (instead of the 5 gallon pots I'm currently using) and flower early?

10 gal and earlier flowering would yield the same you need tine for the roots to set. By all means fill that screen up with bud sights ( bigger roots equal more fruits. There is not a predetermined amount of friuts being distributed to your bud sights so why cut any top terminal shoots

Therealzemi · Nov 2, 2015

I personaly think you should have started flowering earlier. A rule of thumb, is to switch to 12/12 when your screen is 75-80% full. That way you end up with a more manageable scrog. Ive only done 3 scrog grows myself. But that rule of thumb seams to work pretty well.
Theres 2 ways you can get it under control. You can trim off the lowest budsitres, and raise the net a bit. Or you can chose to supercrop them. I would pick the second option. It is what i did when having a similar situation, and this was the result after supercropping them

ChenBenTz · Nov 2, 2015

olekingkole said:
The roots may not fill out the pots completely if you use 10 gal. pots and flower early. That means the pots will dry slower and less air exchange in the soil. I would stick with the 5's, they seem to be working fine. For bigger buds, add more light.

I was told that adding more light would bleach the buds.

I'm already at 85w/sqf.

mistymountain · Nov 2, 2015

In general, yes.
If there are more bud sites lighting being constant for a given area, each bud will weight less.
Will each bud be more airy if there are more bud sites? Maybe, it depends mainly on the genetics of the weed like everything else.
That said, most seeds and clones being sold nowadays produce fairly compact buds: lots of weight for their size. Also because sativas and true sativa land strains are less often found than in the days of Cheech and Chong.

coldcanna · Nov 2, 2015

85 watts per square is more than enough, the old rule of thumb is actually 50 but your not going to hurt anything with what your doing. Make sure you feed them all they want and harvest them at the proper time and you won't have any airy buds, and keep the canopy even throughout flower as well. Too many bud sights is a great problem to have keep it up!

olekingkole · Nov 2, 2015

85watts/sq.ft is a lot, maybe overkill. What kind of light are you using and how close is it to the plants?

oti$ · Nov 3, 2015

Your canopy looks good. 85 w\sqf is very good light intensity...what exactly is your light configuration &wattage and the dimensions of your screen? Your going to be happy come harvest time, just make sure you let them fully mature and you'll be golden. I'd consider a second trellis to support the floppies one they are fully swollen. It's ALWAYS better to over veg rather than under veg, but I think you got it about right.

ChenBenTz · Nov 3, 2015

oti$ said:
Your canopy looks good. 85 w\sqf is very good light intensity...what exactly is your light configuration &wattage and the dimensions of your screen?

1000w HPS in 140cmx100cm area.

oti$ said:
Your going to be happy come harvest time, just make sure you let them fully mature and you'll be golden. I'd consider a second trellis to support the floppies one they are fully swollen. It's ALWAYS better to over veg rather than under veg, but I think you got it about right.

Thanks.

One thing I'm unsure about is the nutrients.

I've always used the Lucas formula (20ml Flora Micro + 40ml Flora Bloom per 10L), but I'm unclear about how much to water and when.

Some people claim you should water to excess so that there is drainage, and there are people who say that you should flush with pure water every 3-4 waterings.

olekingkole · Nov 4, 2015

Whether or not you need to water to excess depends on your growing media. Rock wool or coco prefer frequent watering with run-off. Judging from the photo you are using a soil type medium that contains perlite. That's what I use and I prefer to water every other day with no run-off, alternating fertilizer and pure water. So I only feed the plants every fourth day. That gives them a chance to use up excess nutrients. I measure the amount of water I give each plant so that it gets the same amount every time. Plants love consistency. New transplants should be watered a little every day for about a week until roots have spread into the new soil. After that, a fixed volume of water every other day with no run-off.

sprinkl · Nov 4, 2015

Your yield will be about the same just divided in smaller buds like you say. I've had this problem as well this year. It was outdoor so I couldn't choose when to flip and I wouldn't have flipped it earlier anyway. Outdoor longer veg = more yield as opposed to indoor where you have limited surface area and yield stagnates, a filled screen is a filled screen.
I should have removed more sucker branches. Lesson learned for next year

ChenBenTz · Nov 4, 2015

olekingkole said:
Whether or not you need to water to excess depends on your growing media. Rock wool or coco prefer frequent watering with run-off. Judging from the photo you are using a soil type medium that contains perlite. That's what I use and I prefer to water every other day with no run-off, alternating fertilizer and pure water. So I only feed the plants every fourth day. That gives them a chance to use up excess nutrients. I measure the amount of water I give each plant so that it gets the same amount every time. Plants love consistency. New transplants should be watered a little every day for about a week until roots have spread into the new soil. After that, a fixed volume of water every other day with no run-off.

Actually, I read that soil requires run-off because it's more dense and so tends to inhibit oxygen to the roots, not to mention the salt buildup.

If you only nute every other watering, aren't you worried your plants won't get all the nutes they need? That's half the nutes I give them, since I water with nutes every time, though I do water every four days.

Too many bud sites = airy buds?

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