<$150 led or 250w MH

The Dopest · Jan 27, 2015

If you had $150 to spend on an led, would it be better than a 250 watt metal halide? I've researched some threads but it seems most of the ones recommending led lights are either a few years old perseverance hundred dollars for lights. There are no stores near me that sell led so it would have to be a place online that ships within the U.S. I now a lot of you don't like eBay but they usually have good prices compared to most places on like brands.

The price is non negotiable, I'd like to keep it at $100-150 max or I'll just use the tried and true MH that I already have and spend the money on something besides a light.

I don't want to start an argument, just some current advice since prices and technology changes so rapidly. Links to comparative lamps/grows appreciated. TIA!

Forgot to mention, I'm not above building my own so any DIY guides for a led lamp that will cover a 18"x24 - 24"x24" size area in my price range would be awesome as well.

EDITED 3/15, I have built a new cabinet with 2'Lx2'Wx6'H dimensions pictured later in the thread and have chosen (4) Cree CXA3070 COBS with AD bins. Thanks

Phychotron · Jan 27, 2015

If your just vegging you can get a pretty decent light just about anywhere(Veg growth is where you get those wild claims about their light being equivalent to 1000's of watts of HID). The one thing you need to make sure of is if the parts will be available in the future.

That is pretty cheap for a flower light if that's what you planning on. I'd not recommend it normally, but your in a small area you might be able to get away with a cheap disposable fixture.

What are your exact plans with the light--veg, flower, what? I've never used HID but even my generic fixtures running on half diodes can veg the hell out of a plant.

The Dopest · Jan 27, 2015

I'm planning a micro'ish grow in a 4sq ft cabinet. I'd like to sex a few plants from seed, take cuts from the females for a gorilla grow, then flower out a couple of the moms in that space. It would be once or twice thing, not looking for longevity. If I can get a grow or two in, I'll be happy while I look for a place to set up my hids again. My last grow was a few years ago with a 1000w hps on a flip flop running two rooms continuos. I don't have the luxury of using that setup in this location so I'm going with a 250w max stealth grow and some gorilla plants outdoors.

Thanks for posting!

Phychotron · Jan 27, 2015

Sounds like a temporary solution so this is when I'd say cheap is ok. I pretty much don't like the generic stuff after using it in the beginning when I was learning. I usually recommend something with longevity, specifically something modular, but sounds like your in the disposable light market--people who just need bud, or a college investment.

I can't recommend the cheap one's, I've use the Blackstar fixture from 2011 and another generic and they started breaking after six to twenty four months. I heard the new generation Blackstar 'Chrome' is better than mine, but I'd never buy another.

Also know that your cheap light will in no way shape or form represent what a good quality LED fixture can do flowering bud. My generic experience has been that they are slower to develop while producing less dense buds and lower yield. It should smoke and taste really good though.

I'm sure someone will be able to chime in with a good generic starter LED.

exploziv · Jan 27, 2015

If you are after yeld, and it's just a temporary solution I'd go with the MH. (If you can cool that.)
If not, you can try to find the generic white rectagle form factor "120W" leds for that kind of money. But you need to gather some experience to get same results as from a 150W HID with those ones, and they lack penetration, but in a microgrow should be ok anyway.
I've bought 4 of those 5 years ago, when DIY prices were not worth it, and till now I had problems with 2 of them, had to invest 10-15 usd in each to replace one of the 3 drivers inside, cause they burned out. I'd say that is acceptable for cheap chinese stuff.
for that price you could also get 2, 50W led floodlights in warm white spectrum. they will do a good job too, and won't bother you with the magenta spectrum like the ones made specially as growlights.

my 2 cents.

az2000 · Jan 28, 2015

The Dopest said:
If you had $150 to spend on an led,

Google for "Vipar LED eBay." They have a modest recommendation on another forum (as the best of the worst). You can get 200w actual for $140 shipped.

That would give you 50w/sq ft. You'll need about that much power with inexpensive Chinese epistar/epiled lights.

I ran an 85w (actual) Chinese UFO in a 2x2x5 tall space. 22w/sq ft. I got 85g. A bit airy. When I added 36w of efficient LED sidelighting (121w or 30w/sq ft) it improved. I got 150g.

You might do ok with 40w/sq ft of inefficient epistar/epiled.

50w/sq ft should work as well as your HID, but it will produce as much heat. You should be able to get the LED closer than the HID. Since it doesn't have reflectors, I'd say 6-8".

The Dopest · Jan 28, 2015

Great info, just what I was looking for thanks!

waveguide · Jan 28, 2015

i'd be scared of an LED that was cheaper than d.i.y., but i haven't looked at commercial units in a couple (of critical) years. i'd go with an HID from ebay, and a few CFL fixtures in the corners.

The Dopest · Feb 21, 2015

Ok I have prepped a small cabinet for a stealth grow and it ended up being 16"x 19" and 30" tall, I need a good light recommendation for that size bloom area. I figure I can build a scrog screen to keep the plant height down and have an identical size area for a mom/clone section. I plan to sex them in the mom section, then take cuts and some will go to the bloom cab for vegging and blooming and some will go in a guerrilla grow outdoors.
The mom cab is easy but if anyone could suggest a light(s) for the tiny bloom cab, I'd appreciate the help.
Anyone have any experience with the Cree Par38, BR30 or A19 in a similar size grow?

EDITED: anyone using a 400,250,150w dimmable hid ballast?

420ish · Feb 21, 2015

i think a 400 dimmable light would be too hard to cool in a cab that small.if you can cool it that would be the best and cheapest solution.building a high quality led light for something that small would not be too hard.google vero 10

Dion · Mar 3, 2015

cheap chinese drivers(10 bucks each) cree cobs 30 bucks each, heatsink 10 bucks.

so for about 150 you can build 3 cob fixtures for that space, sorted

The Dopest · Mar 3, 2015

I just upped my space some. I'll be flowering in a 2'x2'x6' insulated box and using the 400w unless it gets too hot this spring/summer then I'll have to do the led dance until winter rolls back around. That should give me some time to either build a nice DIY led or buy a larger one for this space.

DIO, if you have any info on how to build one, please link me to it. All the threads I have seen are older and not detailed. I am pretty good with 12v and 120v wiring as long as I have an idea of what things are needed. Also, I have access to heatsinks of various sizes from a buddy in the electronics field. He has a whole closet full of nothing but heatsinks, mostly aluminum but some copper and other metals. What size leds to max out a 2' sq and a 4' sq area with about 100w sq ft just in case?

Dion · Mar 6, 2015

The Dopest said:
I just upped my space some. I'll be flowering in a 2'x2'x6' insulated box and using the 400w unless it gets too hot this spring/summer then I'll have to do the led dance until winter rolls back around. That should give me some time to either build a nice DIY led or buy a larger one for this space.

DIO, if you have any info on how to build one, please link me to it. All the threads I have seen are older and not detailed. I am pretty good with 12v and 120v wiring as long as I have an idea of what things are needed. Also, I have access to heatsinks of various sizes from a buddy in the electronics field. He has a whole closet full of nothing but heatsinks, mostly aluminum but some copper and other metals. What size leds to max out a 2' sq and a 4' sq area with about 100w sq ft just in case?

I strongly encourage you to go the diy led route

its is super super simple man.

in a nut shell, you choose your chips, you get a driver for them and solder it all together, its all dc power after the driver.

I have a pdf from another forum that was closed down, i will try and put it up soon.

i dont knwo if i can post other sites etc but google it, the construction part is easy as pie, choosing your parts can be a bit tricky as the tech is always changing but i can help you just ask

here is a guy doing what i woudl recomend

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=284309

bueno is a great guy have a look at his thread

here ya go chief, just put this up

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=302493

The Dopest · Mar 7, 2015

Dion, that's the link I needed!! Thank you so much for posting it, I didn't have much spare time today, between work and prepping the stealth cab before the kids got home but I spent every minute I could reading bueno's posts and researching cobs . I just saw your edit link added and will check it out when I have a few more minutes to spare, thanks again!!

Dion · Mar 7, 2015

no worries chief

I would suggest you make 2 lights, each one to cover a 2x2 space.
you could use 1 cob cree(2700-3000k) and a few surexi chips(f3 spectrum http://www.illumitex.com/illumitex-leds/surexi-horticulture-leds/ )

but it might get pricey that way...

to keep it around 150 bucks will be tight so prob skip the surexi chips and just go cree cobs maybe 3 of them

im about to build 2 70w ones using the 2540 3000k 93CRI cree cobs, all included(heatsink, driver, chip and thermal grease and chip holder) they cost 43.30 usd each for parts.... so you could build 3 of them within your budget

The Dopest · Mar 7, 2015

Tell me more about the 70w you'll be building, I might could squeeze a few more dollars out for 4 of those, if you think they'd be similar to a 400w hps. Are you planning on buying in store or online? I'm looking for the best price on whatever I end up buying, I don't like wasting money on things that can be found cheaper elsewhere.

Dion · Mar 7, 2015

well 4 of them would be um... they are 74w each so 292 watts?

im buying everything online, usually I buy from aliexpress for drivers and heatsinks

But it is my understanding in the USA( i assume thats where you are) better deals are to be had

the chips can be bought from mouser or digikey

im using specificaly

this driver
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-8A...for-LED-strip-3528-5050-power/1932332304.html
with this chip
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/CREE-XLamp-CXA2540-Warm-White-37V/32262606267.html
with these heatsinks
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/AE-2...sink-Round-XL-10W-20W-30W-45W/1397888087.html

but in retrospect i think the driver could have been a bit less intense, im pushing above its peak luman/watt performance and it also may get a bit hot on that heatsink

i probably should have gone with the bigger chips like the 3590 but lemun/dollar is better on this chip

ill be putting it all together in the next week or two so ill post back here on what the junction temps are like then

imho 4 lights in a 2x4 space will not be evenly spead... 2 lights to cover 2x2 or 8 each covering 1x1 for uniformity

i cant say how they woudl compare to a 400w hps id imagine the would be similar but wothout using specific nm light lending marketing blah blha(im talking about the PAR) im not sure how they compare watt for watt.

I can attest to the surexi performing 200w surexi almost=400w hps

the cobs i dunno yet but you would be getting about 24000 lumens better matched to photosynthesis with 4 of the ones im building. how many lumens does ur 400w hps put out?

The Dopest · Mar 7, 2015

Thanks, and I know that 4x 74w would be less actual watts than a 400w hps but it seems like every led grow light is rated roughly 50% less actual watts than what they claim it's comparable to in hid lighting. That's one thing I can't wrap my brain around but that makes complete sense when comparing yields. The average hid yield is .5 gpw and the average led yield is about 1 gpw. Say you have a 400w hps and you pull 200 grams, then you replace that with a 200w led and pull 200 grams, follow me?
I would think that 292w led should be comparable to a 400-600w hps but I'm used to hid lights, that's why I asked.

Yes I'm in the US, I've done business with digikey before so I'm familiar with them and mouser.

Dion · Mar 7, 2015

yeah thts what i ment that the surexi chips are 50% less watts for hps replacement, i mean that the cobs are not specific horticultural wavelenths so they may not be quite as efficient for photosynthisis but certianly better than hps consodering the lumens are all coming out at 115 degrees instead of 360 plus the cree chips have very favourable coulour mixing for our application.

id be stoked to see you do this build.

keep me posted

The Dopest · Mar 8, 2015

Hey Dion, I saw these power supplies while searching, is there any reason why I can't use a couple of them? I have several of them already that are 15a iirc, just sitting in a box in the attic.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/180937046771?nav=SEARCH

If that will work, all I need to buy is some LEDs and get a couple heat sinks from my friend and I'm in business!

<$150 led or 250w MH

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