Oregon/Washington/Colorado Comparison (why OR is best)

So, being very heavily involved in the legal recreational and medical industries (all aspects of growing, processing, breeding, R&D, etc.), I have to say here in WA things suck! WA is a total joke and failure thus far - it's like they want WA to fail. Thus far less than 25% of business applications have been processed, more than 12 months after they were given to the state(!). CO is better than WA, but CO isn't near as good as OR.

I think in the next year or two WA State will improve its very lackluster industry rules, to stop handicapping businesses and help the industry grow, not stagnate.

Here's a neat comparison OR put out:
http://www.oregon.gov/olcc/marijuana/Documents/Measure 91_sidebysidecomparison.pdf

Here is the FAQ Oregon posted for the new law, which stipulates the state must start accepting business applications no later than January 4th, 2016. The law itself goes into effect on July 1st, 2015:
http://www.oregon.gov/olcc/marijuan...stions.aspx#Recreational_Marijuana_in_General

Here's the OR state webportal for their cannabis laws:
http://www.oregon.gov/olcc/marijuana/pages/default.aspx

This month I'm moving down southern WA, right next to OR, to take part in both state industries, because OR isn't likely to require owners or investors to be residents of the state, but WA does.

Below are my crib notes about why OR is great. The only bad thing about OR is its lack of people (even less than WA), but I think drug tourism from CA and WA (due to much lower prices in OR) will make up for that, a bit:

-- Out-of-state investors and/or owners are likely to be allowed

-- The medical market is untouched and will be in existence alongside of recreational.

-- There will be a lot of drug tourism, with Washington State above Oregon, and California below, where in both states the price per gram for medical and recreational (in WA) is considerably more than in Oregon.

-- No limit on number of licenses statewide or on number and types of licenses held by one company.

-- Delivery of cannabis is allowed, e.g. home delivery.

-- Low tax rate for both business and planned cannabis sales at $35 per ounce from the producer (unlike in WA where it’s 25% at all three stages for cannabis sales); a main goal of Oregon’s recreational law is to keep prices affordable. I think this only increases customer base by encouraging more people to buy, and more people to travel to OR from other states for drug tourism.

-- Local governments aren’t allowed to impose their own local taxes on recreational Cannabis businesses.

-- Local governments aren’t allowed to ban recreational business except by a majority vote of their constituents.

-- Any person over 21 years of age and grow 4 plants at home and have 8 ounces, starting July 1st, 2015. It think this only increases customer base by introducing more people to Cannabis.

-- The Governor and state Reps. strongly support the new law.

-- By 2016 the IRS rule 280-E and the banking issue should be resolved, at least for states that have legal Cannabis markets – a huge win.

This looks like a good thing for OR.
They also have preserved home growing...A+
I like the fact it will not be taxed over and over.
Low prices eliminate the black market too.

Your right about no people, the rainforest may play a role there. If your a hunter your golden!
I know a guy who was lost for 3 days.
I know for a fact one could also find some quality car stereo and electronics from Audio control out there too.

Anyway
The law looks very acceptable.
Ya gotta be a lawyer to read all the fine print, but that, they are good for!

Best of luck to OR.
Keep fightin' the good fight.
Do your part smoke one then get out and vote!


shag

Beta Test Team said:

So, being very heavily involved in the legal recreational and medical industries (all aspects of growing, processing, breeding, R&D, sales, et. al.), I have to say here in WA things suck! WA is a total joke and failure thus far - it's like they want WA to fail. Thus far less than 25% of business applications have been processed, more than 12 months after they were given to the state(!). CO is better than WA, but CO isn't near as good as OR.

I think in the next year or two WA State will improve its very lackluster industry rules, to stop handicapping businesses and help the industry grow, not stagnate.

Here's a neat comparison OR put out:
http://www.oregon.gov/olcc/marijuana/Documents/Measure 91_sidebysidecomparison.pdf

Here is the FAQ Oregon posted for the new law, which stipulates the state must start accepting business applications no later than January 4th, 2016. The law itself goes into effect on July 1st, 2015:
http://www.oregon.gov/olcc/marijuan...stions.aspx#Recreational_Marijuana_in_General

Here's the OR state webportal for their cannabis laws:
http://www.oregon.gov/olcc/marijuana/pages/default.aspx

This month I'm moving down southern WA, right next to OR, to take part in both state industries, because OR isn't likely to require owners or investors to be residents of the state, but WA does.

Below are my crib notes about why OR is great. The only bad thing about OR is it's lack of people (even less than WA), but I think drug tourism from CA and WA (due to much lower prices in OR) will make up for that, a bit:

-- Out-of-state investors and/or owners are likely to be allowed

-- The medical market is untouched and will be in existence alongside of recreational.

-- There will be a lot of drug tourism, with Washington State above Oregon, and California below, where in both states the price per gram for medical and recreational (in WA) is considerably more than in Oregon.

-- No limit on number of licenses statewide of licenses held by one company.

-- Delivery of cannabis is allowed, e.g. home delivery.

-- Low tax rate for both business and planned cannabis sales at $35 per ounce from the producer (unlike in WA where it’s 25% at all three stages for cannabis sales); a main goal of Oregon’s recreational law is to keep prices affordable. I think this only increases customer base by encouraging more people to buy, and more people to travel to OR from other states for drug tourism.

-- Local governments aren’t allowed to impose their own local taxes on recreational cannabis businesses.

-- Local governments aren’t allowed to ban recreational business except by a majority vote of their constituents.

-- Any person over 21 years of age and grow 4 plants at home and have 8 ounces, starting July 1st, 2015. It think this only increases customer base by introducing more people to cannabis.

-- The Governor and state Reps. strongly support the new law.

-- By 2016 the IRS rule 280-E and the banking issue should be resolved, at least for states that have legal cannabis markets – a huge win.

Click to expand...

Brilliant info. Thanks bro!

You're welcome flat9.

And Shaggy, yup, OR seems to have their head on straight (fingers crossed it stays that way!). I haven't been back to CO in maybe 6 years, would like to visit Denver and other 'hot spots' to see how the scene is developing there.

and, iirc, there is only a $250 application fee and another $1000 for a grower/producer license. I think the fees etc. are a bit higher in CO.

Thanks for the info oneofus. Overall OR seems to have the most sane rules, with lowest tax rates and other costs.

Thank you very much for taking the time to create such a informative post Beta!

I just re registered here @ icmag after several years of inactivity as I have made a major decision to sell my house, quit my job and move west and follow my dreams.

I currently live in the midwest and have been an enthusiast for 20 years. I have traveled to A-dam several times in pursuit of my passion and have had MANY indoor ops and years of coinciding scissor time under my belt.

I have made a decision to peruse the passion I have for horticulture that I have had to hide and keep secret my whole life in a NON legal State by moving to OR to get into the industry I love so much without looking in my rear view mirror with fear of prosecution.

Your post is just the thing I have been searching for since I have made my decision.

I am researching housing opportunity's currently and I have spoken with the Franchise/ownership group of the business I currently work for that has the OR territory so I will have employment opportunity to start as well.

I have a background in retail and commercial sales as well as management in these arenas and would love the opportunity to find employment in the industry as well as being a caregiver/greenhouse operations manager.

It would be nice if there was an accredited consulting firm in place for a guy like me to sit down and discuss the best utilization and implementation of the skill set and available resources I have to bring to the table and advise me on how to do it right the first time when making a major life changing cross country move like this.

For now I will put my hope in the hands of friendly and knowledgeable members of IC mag like yourself to help guide my way and keep me safe.

I'm glad you made this post. I am a medical grower around Portland, Oregon who is currently in negotiations with a number of farmers in the area who are preparing to transition over to large scale LEGAL grows over the next 2 years in order to supply OLCC with fine bud. Although there is a lot of places here to grow bud the price for herb is CHEAP. I see top shelf indoor herb on the black market go for $100 an oz all the time. The dispenseries can charge like $200 or more but they face a lot of competition and high supply of good herb. The downside of Oregon is you may see your precious herbs go for bottom prices. My growing mentor and others have moved away from Oregon to places like Alaska in order to pursue a fair price for their crops.

Oh and another benefit of growing in Oregon, no sales tax.

i might move to the state of Jefferson southern Oregon look it up if you haven't heard

bigdank said:

I'm glad you made this post. I am a medical grower around Portland, Oregon who is currently in negotiations with a number of farmers in the area who are preparing to transition over to large scale LEGAL grows over the next 2 years in order to supply OLCC with fine bud. Although there is a lot of places here to grow bud the price for herb is CHEAP. I see top shelf indoor herb on the black market go for $100 an oz all the time. The dispenseries can charge like $200 or more but they face a lot of competition and high supply of good herb. The downside of Oregon is you may see your precious herbs go for bottom prices. My growing mentor and others have moved away from Oregon to places like Alaska in order to pursue a fair price for their crops.

Oh and another benefit of growing in Oregon, no sales tax.

Click to expand...

I think that indoor growing for profit simply won't exist in Oregon. Price competition from outdoor herb will prevent it. Legal outdoor growing is also a big advantage for personal growers, as well.

One of the things that high licensing fees in CO accomplishes is that it assures there won't be a market glut. Well, not so far anyway. It also keeps small outlaw growers in the game, too. Oregon farmers may be able to collectively farm themselves right out of making a profit in the state market, tempting them to engage in still illegal interstate commerce.

As we're seeing here in CO, anybody caught doing so really, really gets their balls busted off. The Feds won't put your head on a pike outside the federal courthouse, but you might wish that they had.

About outdoor vs. indoor in OR, I would disagree. OR outdoor scene isn't year round, and even when it's summer it's not very sunny (well, depending upon where in OR you're located). So greenhouses (environment controlled) are a must for year round growing outdoors (if one cares about productivity). And if a grower is going to spend that much money they might as well go indoor (granted, the additional operating costs for indoor are considerable).

Also, the issue of quality is a big one (and not one for this thread), where many people prefer indoor to outdoor and many people won't buy outdoor because they're looking specifically for indoor. (Another issue is Cannabis as medicine, which, in my opinion, should be grown indoors in very controlled environments, because it's medicine; not outdoors.)

I know for me, in my experiences over decades and many states, indoor is better than outdoor, on average. And the best indoor is way better than the best outdoor. I know many people wouldn't agree, but I think mostly that's due to agendas that aren't about the quality (like going 'green') or simply preferring the idea of outdoor vs. indoor (or never having really good indoor).

In terms of limiting the market I'm not a fan. That's what I really disliked about CO, that they only allowed specific companies to take part initially. And that's not how capitalism and the free market work, that's the antithesis of capitalism and the free market...

Hey Beta
I heard through the grapevine OR. is hiring dispensary inspectors, do you know of this process at all?
Are they canna cops of the friendly sort?
We have dispensaries here but don't ask, it is Detroit after all, I could tell some stories, boy oh boy!
shag

Beta Test Team said:

In terms of limiting the market I'm not a fan. That's what I really disliked about CO, that they only allowed specific companies to take part initially. And that's not how capitalism and the free market work, that's the antithesis of capitalism and the free market...

Click to expand...

I agree with the above!
I say:
Flood the market with cannabis, lower prices, people will still seek the best and pay well over market value for it.
Just look at collectors, they want it they get it, sometime just to impress and say they have the best.
I like the idea of a connoisseurs farmers market also!
Whoever has the best would sell out fast even at top dollar.
shag

Beta Test Team said:

About outdoor vs. indoor in OR, I would disagree. OR outdoor scene isn't year round, and even when it's summer it's not very sunny (well, depending upon where in OR you're located). So greenhouses (environment controlled) are a must for year round growing outdoors (if one cares about productivity). And if a grower is going to spend that much money they might as well go indoor (granted, the additional operating costs for indoor are considerable).

Also, the issue of quality is a big one (and not one for this thread), where many people prefer indoor to outdoor and many people won't buy outdoor because they're looking specifically for indoor. (Another issue is Cannabis as medicine, which, in my opinion, should be grown indoors in very controlled environments, because it's medicine; not outdoors.)

I know for me, in my experiences over decades and many states, indoor is better than outdoor, on average. And the best indoor is way better than the best outdoor. I know many people wouldn't agree, but I think mostly that's due to agendas that aren't about the quality (like going 'green') or simply preferring the idea of outdoor vs. indoor (or never having really good indoor).

In terms of limiting the market I'm not a fan. That's what I really disliked about CO, that they only allowed specific companies to take part initially. And that's not how capitalism and the free market work, that's the antithesis of capitalism and the free market...

Click to expand...

I caution you to check your assumptions.

The Willamette valley is some of the finest agricultural land in N America. In a legal environment, the price of production for outdoor cannabis would be insanely low, particularly grown whole sections at a time. They can probably price dry sift very competitively with indoor using mechanized processing once that's worked out. Industrial scale machinery. Popular extracts will be even less expensive, high for high. That price delta can easily make indoor a losing proposition.

They don't need to grow year round- they never have for anything else.

Other drug plants are not grown indoors at all.

What people think they know about the cannabis market, the grey & black market does not necessarily apply in a legalization environment. One of the biggest problems for all those seeking their fortunes from it will be holding prices up & availability down. That's particularly true in Oregon where everything grows with great abandon. Outdoor personal growing puts a whole different spin on it.

shaggyballs said:

I agree with the above!
I say:
Flood the market with cannabis, lower prices, people will still seek the best and pay well over market value for it.
Just look at collectors, they want it they get it, sometime just to impress and say they have the best.
I like the idea of a connoisseurs farmers market also!
Whoever has the best would sell out fast even at top dollar.
shag

Click to expand...

Wishful thinking at best. Bud Lite is the best selling beer in America.

Figure it out from there.

Jhhnn said:

Beta Test Team said:

About outdoor vs. indoor in OR, I would disagree. OR outdoor scene isn't year round, and even when it's summer it's not very sunny (well, depending upon where in OR you're located). So greenhouses (environment controlled) are a must for year round growing outdoors (if one cares about productivity). And if a grower is going to spend that much money they might as well go indoor (granted, the additional operating costs for indoor are considerable).

Also, the issue of quality is a big one (and not one for this thread), where many people prefer indoor to outdoor and many people won't buy outdoor because they're looking specifically for indoor. (Another issue is Cannabis as medicine, which, in my opinion, should be grown indoors in very controlled environments, because it's medicine; not outdoors.)

I know for me, in my experiences over decades and many states, indoor is better than outdoor, on average. And the best indoor is way better than the best outdoor. I know many people wouldn't agree, but I think mostly that's due to agendas that aren't about the quality (like going 'green') or simply preferring the idea of outdoor vs. indoor (or never having really good indoor).

In terms of limiting the market I'm not a fan. That's what I really disliked about CO, that they only allowed specific companies to take part initially. And that's not how capitalism and the free market work, that's the antithesis of capitalism and the free market...

Click to expand...

I caution you to check your assumptions.

The Willamette valley is some of the finest agricultural land in N America. In a legal environment, the price of production for outdoor cannabis would be insanely low, particularly grown whole sections at a time. They can probably price dry sift very competitively with indoor using mechanized processing once that's worked out. Industrial scale machinery. Popular extracts will be even less expensive, high for high. That price delta can easily make indoor a losing proposition.

Click to expand...

I made no assumptions.

I was referring only to Cannabis sold as 'buds,' in terms of quality and what most people seek. And what I wrote holds true.

If all people care about is paying as little as possible, which is a fair share of customers (last data I read was around 60% to 70% care more about price than quality), then outdoor would take over, of course. But thankfully that's not the way things are for everyone.

When we speak of concentrates and extracts then the outdoor vs. indoor issue is pretty much null in void. But, the issue of quality is not (which is the thrust of indoor vs. outdoor issue). Some people will buy the cheapest concentrate (like shatter) while others will buy the best quality concentrate (like shatter). Your Bud Light example is useful in this case, to point out while Bud and other lower quality brands have a huge share of the market, craft beer brands do really well in sales as a sub-market of sorts. (But this isn't a good example when talking about 'buds,' because it's often easy to tell to see if one is better quality than the other.)

Jhhnn said:

They don't need to grow year round- they never have for anything else.

Click to expand...

I've seen this first hand here in WA for recreational and Cali for medical: outdoor growers flooding the market for 6+ months post harvest with cheaper and lower quality buds. So that drives down the price for all buds, even really good indoor. This isn't good for indoor growers or outdoor growers, when outdoor growers flood the market en mass. That is why growing year round outdoor is better than growing huge harvests once per year and having to sell that single harvest for the rest of the year.

Growing year round is useful for other reasons, as well, like breeding to improve the growers' genetic stable.

Furthermore, in many places in OR if growers only want to grow outdoors using a greenhouse is very beneficial for many reasons, especially when it's an environmentally controlled greenhouse with supplemental lighting.

Jhhnn said:

Other drug plants are not grown indoors at all.

Click to expand...

Yes they are, for example it's not unheard of for poppies to be grown in controlled greenhouses for the sake of have greater control of phytochemical production.

And besides, other medicines are processed, which removes contaminants. Not so with outdoor buds. Which is why I wrote what I wrote about medical Cannabis growing indoor vs. outdoor.

If we're talking about a concentrates that was syringe filtered with a sufficiently small um filter then microbial contamination isn't an issue (as well as ideally being screened for microbial and fungal toxins).

Jhhnn said:

What people think they know about the cannabis market, the grey & black market does not necessarily apply in a legalization environment. One of the biggest problems for all those seeking their fortunes from it will be holding prices up & availability down. That's particularly true in Oregon where everything grows with great abandon. Outdoor personal growing puts a whole different spin on it.

Click to expand...

Yes, I agree, many people do think they know what they're talking about, and in most cases they don't.

Anyone getting into this industry to 'get rich quick' has their head on backwards. This industry is just like any other, like selling any widget. Too many people think the Cannabis business is something special, and it's not. It's just as competitive as the next market, yet much harder due to limits on banking and IRS issues.

shaggyballs said:

Hey Beta
I heard through the grapevine OR. is hiring dispensary inspectors, do you know of this process at all?
Are they canna cops of the friendly sort?
We have dispensaries here but don't ask, it is Detroit after all, I could tell some stories, boy oh boy!
shag

Click to expand...

I don't, sorry.

Jhhnn said:

Shaggyballs said:

Beta Test Team said:

In terms of limiting the market I'm not a fan. That's what I really disliked about CO, that they only allowed specific companies to take part initially. And that's not how capitalism and the free market work, that's the antithesis of capitalism and the free market...

Click to expand...

I agree with the above!
I say:
Flood the market with cannabis, lower prices, people will still seek the best and pay well over market value for it.
Just look at collectors, they want it they get it, sometime just to impress and say they have the best.
I like the idea of a connoisseurs farmers market also!
Whoever has the best would sell out fast even at top dollar.
shag

Click to expand...

Wishful thinking at best. Bud Lite is the best selling beer in America.

Figure it out from there.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't call that wishful thinking.

The craft beer (micro beer) market is a prime example of a craft Cannabis market. And the craft beer market, while paling in comparison to the beer market as a whole, is still large in its own right generating 14.3 billion dollars in 2013, a 20% increase from 2012 (http://www.brewersassociation.org/statistics/national-beer-sales-production-data/ & http://www.brewersassociation.org/statistics/national-beer-sales-production-data/).

Like I wrote in the last post, the Cannabis industry isn't different than the beer industry. The cheapest and lower quality products will have the lion's share of sales, but higher priced and higher quality products will still have considerable market share and room to grow.

Agency peace officers

Agency peace officers

Beta Test Team said:

Shaggyballs said:

Hey Beta
I heard through the grapevine OR. is hiring dispensary inspectors, do you know of this process at all?
Are they canna cops of the friendly sort?
We have dispensaries here but don't ask, it is Detroit after all, I could tell some stories, boy oh boy!
shag

Click to expand...

I don't, sorry.

Click to expand...

I spoke too soon, from the OLCC list-serve today:

Portland, OR – At their monthly meeting Friday, January 30, 2015, the Commissioners of the Oregon Liquor Control Commission voted to request that the Legislature give OLCC some kind of peace officer authority in order to adequately enforce the rules under Measure 91.

“We don’t want the agency to be a paper tiger when it comes to enforcing the law,” said OLCC Chairman Rob Patridge.

Agency peace officers would facilitate coordination with local law enforcement on matters ranging from minor decoy operations to criminal investigations. The agency currently employs 45 peace officers in its alcohol public safety division.

The Commissioners also invited representatives from local government and law enforcement as well as experts from the marijuana industry to provide testimony on the implementation of Measure 91, the recreational marijuana law passed by voters in November.

“We heard a lot of unanimity on some key issues,” Patridge said. “Law enforcement, local government and industry agree that we need to ensure that product advertising and packaging does not appeal to minors. And we heard broad agreement that our rules need to establish bright lines for effective enforcement and regulation.”

Click to expand...

There is already a glut of weed in Oregon. Always has been.