3rd party HID SPD analyses: What lamps to test?

So we're in talks with a few companies (getting pricing) for creating SPDs for various radiation sources (we're starting with HID, then will move to LED and LES luminaires). This thread is meant to compile a list of HID lamps to test.

The sad fact is we (i.e. you) cannot rely on the lamp companies (more so from the likes of Ushio and Eye, than Philips) to provide complete and accurate SPDs of their lamps. So we're going to have a 3rd party lab create them for us, which we will of course share with everyone. We're analyzing 280-900 nm waveband for each lamp we have tested.

Aside from the issue above about SPD, we're also getting the lamps' SPD analyzed so we can use those data points to compare lamps' spectra without having to manually digitize each lamps' SPD as provided by the manufacture. This also reduces the errors by a considerable amount, I'd guess by as much as 2% to 5%.

So we're using this thread to collect a list of lamps we should test. Please add to this list and correct what I write if something is wrong, thanks! (We hope to start testing within two weeks.)


-- Here are our questions:

1. What band and model 1000W MH DE lamps are shipped with the Epapillion? (Is it from SolisTek?)
-- Epapillion MH DE 1000W :
http://www.epapillon.com/images/Specifications ePapillon 6K 1000W MH lamp.pdf
-- SolisTek 1000W DE MH (6,000 K)
http://solis-tek.com/digital-lamps/mh6kde.html


2. What lamps would you like to see added to the list below?


3. Is SolisTek a quality brand? Or cheap import?




-- To start off, here's the lamps we're going to have analyzed first:

1. Philips Master GreenPower Plus EL 1000W
(Used by Gavita and Epapillion):
http://www.lighting.philips.com/mai...pressure-sodium/horti/928196305116_EU/product

2. Philips GreenPower CDM-TP T12 315W
(Used to be called the 'Elite Agro,' ships with Greenbeams and Dpapillion):
http://www.lighting.philips.com/pwc_li/us_en/connect/tools_literature/downloads/p-6414.pdf

3. Philips MasterColor CDM-TP T12 315W
(Ships with Greenbeams, if chosen instead of the GreenPower):
http://www.usa.lighting.philips.com/pwc_li/us_en/connect/tools_literature/downloads/238097.pdf

4. Philips SON-T HPS 1000W:
http://download.p4c.philips.com/l4b/9/928487400091_eu/928487400091_eu_pss_aenaa.pdf

5. Eye Hortilux SuperHPS 1000W:
http://eyehortilux.com/products/High-Pressure-Sodium#shps

6. Eye Hortilux E-Start MH 1000W:
http://eyehortilux.com/products/Metal-Halide#es

7. Eye Hortilux Super Blue HPS/MH Dual Arc 1000W:
http://eyehortilux.com/products/High-Pressure-Sodium#sblue

8. Ushio Super HPS DE 1000W:
http://www.ushio.com/files/specs/hiluxgro.pdf

9. Ushio Super HPS 1000W:
http://www.ushio.com/files/specs/hiluxgro.pdf

10. Ushio Super MH 1000W;
http://www.ushio.com/files/specs/hiluxgro.pdf

11. Ushio HPS/MH Dual Core 1000W:
http://www.ushio.com/files/specs/hiluxgro.pdf

12. SolisTek 4K DE MH 1000W:
http://solis-tek.com/digital-lamps/mh4kde.html

13. SolisTek 6K DE MH 1000W :
http://solis-tek.com/digital-lamps/mh6kde.html

14. SolisTek 10K DE MH 1000W :
http://solis-tek.com/digital-lamps/mh10kde.html

15. PlantMax Dual Core HPS/MH 1000W:
https://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/Plantmax-pxlu1000mhda-specs.pdf

16. PlantaStar HPS 1000W :
http://assets.sylvania.com/assets/Documents/HID044.7cf76635-bc37-486c-a124-d2866c01207d.pdf

17. Lucalox PSL HPS 400V 750W:
http://www.gelighting.com/LightingW..._Lamps_Spectrum_Catalogue_EN_tcm388-25049.pdf

I've updated the list with the DE lamps (including MH) from SolisTek, and found Epapillion is using the same lamp as Gavita (1000W DE Plus from Philips).

Is SolisTek a good brand?

I'd like to see the Plantmax PX-LU1000MH/DA - 1000 Watt added to the list. It's the poor man's version of the Hortilux Dual Arc 62800 - 1000 Watt.

Great suggestion. You mean this one from Plantmax?
https://www.1000bulbs.com/pdf/Plantmax-pxlu1000mhda-specs.pdf

If so, is there a spec sheet? I didn't find one in a quick Google search, other than the link above.

We thought about getting those duel arc lamps tested but we have never used them and didn't know many people did use them. I think it's worth getting them tested though, so yea we'll add it, and likely the one from Hortilux and the one from Ushio, as well.

That way we have CMH, traditional HPS and MH, DE HPS and MH, and dual arc HPS/MH lamps tested. That seems like a good place to start.

(I don't know the cost of each test yet, so this may need to be done peace-meal. The list is getting longer so this may be more than we want to spend at one time.)

^^^

That's the one. As a personal supply grower, I have a single lamp flowering chamber & that lamp has worked well for me. It seems the best of both worlds. Multi lamp growers can obviously accomplish much the same with a combination of lamps.

With the spread of legalized personal growing I think we'll see an increase in the number of smallish grows like ours. Using a single lamp cuts initial investment considerably, encouraging greater participation. More blue in the spectrum reduces problems with stretch, a useful property with limited headspace.

Interlux makes a 600w version- I have no experience with it-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/InterLux-60...4487630?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item5891473f4e

I've added the Plantmax dual core to the list, plus the dual core from Hortilux and Ushio (both 1000W). We'll make sure it's in our first round of testing for you.

I think skipping brands like SunMaster, DigiMax, DigiLux, UltraSun, XtraSun is wise. Though we do want to test SolarMax because they're ISO-9000 certified manufacturing I believe.

I just realized I forgot to add Philips SON-T 1000W HPS. Not that that's a good lamp, but it's often the one used in research on plant growth (especially Cannabis), like Potter & Duncombe (2011; DOI: 10.1111/j.1556-4029.2011.02024.x). That way we can make use of their research data in a much better way (by analyzing their spectral radiation source to convert PAR W to PPF.)

I'm also adding PlantaStar HPS 1000W (as I recall in knna's testing it scored well).

Thanks, Beta. Your scientific POV is certainly welcome by me. I end up with more of a technician's viewpoint, just trying to put together something that works truly well in a cost conscious way. So far, it's been like any other home improvement project- it takes twice as long & costs at least twice as much as I originally figured, but it seems like I got something right w/ that lamp. It'll be interesting to see what the numbers say.

No problem Jhhnn, glad to help. I do like reading your posts as well, as they are more from a technician's perspective, so I get to learn about things from you (and others like rives) that I don't know (like wiring and power).

Hi Beta, Thanks for all of your good work and enlightenment. I'm currently running a Gavata 6/750 and am awaiting arrival of a Cycloptics 315W with the 942 bulb, as supplemental, to light a 3x6 canopy.
Could you please add the 750W DE bulb that Gavita uses to the list? It's probably a Philips too, no?

Hi. Funny you asked, because after doing a bit of Googleing it looks like that 750W DE is actually a "Lucalox PSL" ('Photosynthesis Lamp') from GE:
http://www.gavita.nl/products/electronic-fixtures/item/gan-electronic-750w-277-v

I say funny you mention that because we only yesterday found out about Lucalox from GE, and I was looking at them today. Their range of horticultural "PSL" (photosynthesis lamps) is impressive:
http://www.gelighting.com/LightingW..._Lamps_Spectrum_Catalogue_EN_tcm388-25049.pdf

What I like about GE is what I like about Philips, huge international brand that's known for quality.

So yea, we'll get that tested, thanks for suggesting it.

In general we're testing higher wattage lamps mainly because it's better to have too much energy and dim it, rather than not enough or an ideal amount, simply for the fact of versatility and uniformity.

Great call on Greenbeams by the way, and the 942 (MasterColor) is what we're using as well with Greenbeams as the sole lamp type.

What about the 600w, 400v hps lamp by phillips/gavita? I'm looking at these and can't find much info.

Is this one you mean?
http://www.lighting.philips.com/mai...pressure-sodium/horti/928159209214_EU/product

If so that can be added to the list, sure. That's a good idea.

Beta Test Team said:

Is this one you mean?
http://www.lighting.philips.com/mai...pressure-sodium/horti/928159209214_EU/product

If so that can be added to the list, sure. That's a good idea.

Click to expand...

That's the one. I'm considering changing out my 2 OLD 1000's with 3 of them.

Venture Natural White 575/775w
(I power them on 600/750w lumateks with no problems)

http://www.venturelighting.com/LampsDataSheets/NaturalWhite/24983m.pdf
http://www.venturelighting.com/LampsDataSheets/NaturalWhite/95575m.pdf

**Also sold as Sunmaster 1000/600/400w for twice the price

Beta Test Team said:

Is this one you mean?
http://www.lighting.philips.com/mai...pressure-sodium/horti/928159209214_EU/product

If so that can be added to the list, sure. That's a good idea.

Click to expand...

any updates on this testing BTT?

i use the Ushio and Solis tek bulbs now so thats why i'm curious.

Ranger said:

any updates on this testing BTT?

i use the Ushio and Solis tek bulbs now so thats why i'm curious.

Click to expand...

Not yet. Due to the cost of each test ($200; I managed to get the price down) we have to wait until more funding comes in, which likely won't be till Q3 or Q4 of 2015.

Total cost will be around $6,000 to $8,000 for all testing, because we also have to purchase all the lamps and ballasts. We thought about a GoFundMe or KickStarter (the latter is likely better) project, and are still mulling it over. The KickStarter project would be nice we think, so we can share all the data with everyone, and offer special things to donators (like personal assistance or other type of consulting on lighting, etc.).

Also, we have stopped development of our HISSA (Harvest Irradiance Spectrum-System Analyzer) until we get this testing done. Because it makes no sense to use incomplete and likely inaccurate SPD's from the lamp manufactures. We only want to use trusted 3rd party SPDs for our HISSA project.

Beta Test Team said:

Not yet. Due to the cost of each test ($200; I managed to get the price down) we have to wait until more funding comes in, which likely won't be till Q3 or Q4 of 2015.

Total cost will be around $6,000 to $8,000 for all testing, because we also have to purchase all the lamps and ballasts. We thought about a GoFundMe or KickStarter (the latter is likely better) project, and are still mulling it over. The KickStarter project would be nice we think, so we can share all the data with everyone, and offer special things to donators (like personal assistance or other type of consulting on lighting, etc.).

Also, we have stopped development of our HISSA (Harvest Irradiance Spectrum-System Analyzer) until we get this testing done. Because it makes no sense to use incomplete and likely inaccurate SPD's from the lamp manufactures. We only want to use trusted 3rd party SPDs for our HISSA project.

Click to expand...

Well i can certainly appreciate that. i used what i could figure as far as Ushio's numbers that were tested by an online supply house and averaged what i needed for Solis Tek and came up fairly close to my own observations on these bulbs.

Ushio tested out at 720 micro for their 400 watt sodium bulb, on the aforementioned site and i used a mean average for the Solis Tek bulb 400 watt MH 6k at 1000 micro mol.

with that data checked my setup to see why i was bleaching leaves with my lights at 18 inches above canopy.

turns out since adding an extra light to my room i was forced to move my hoods to 24 inches apart on center. before they were approx 48 inches apart.

the data i extrapolated indicated i was pushing a DLI of approximately 77 @ i'm assuming 12" above canopy and that's for a 12/12 cycle!

these two bulbs are serving a canopy of only 1 meter squared with an approx. micro mol count of 1700.

with the aid of data you provided, (Thank You!) i was able to see why i was bleaching. i now run these hoods at 24 inches above canopy and my plants are happy. leaf chlorophyll has returned to a normal appearance.