nute burn / LED light burn/ bad nutes?- help a new grower

Werner Karl H · Sep 15, 2014

hello all!

this is my first grow. although I've read a lot about growing, i am still a newb so bear with me.

i'll try to provide as many details as i can about my grow in hope that you can help me

growing in: DR60 tent

light: CFL in veg and CFL(4X32W)+180W LED in flower

medium: soil+ worm castings

nutes: biobizz and from now on (last feeding) GH 3 parts+ bloombastic

water- in veg 50% pure water + 50% tap water. the last time- only filtered water

strain- bagseed

the seed was planted in soil and is still growing outdoors. from that seed i took 4 clones, rooted them and transplanted them once they were in the proper size.

the cloned were fed via foliar feeding and also only water in the first weeks- i didn't want to overfeed them.

this is them at the end of the veg:

9 days into flower i started to see what looked like burn marks:

the thing is they only showed on the top leaves and were also mostly directly under the LED:

10 days later i did a massive trim of the infected leaves and 2 days later i flushed the plants with florakleen.

the last pic is from the 12.9 right after the flush.

i thought that my biobizz were bad (they were given to me from a friend so they were a bit old) so i changed to GH 3 parts.

what do you guys think? i also have pics from today if you need the problem progress

thank you all for your help

H

Werner Karl H · Sep 17, 2014

can someone please help?

Former Guest · Sep 17, 2014

wow. this is a toughie. I'm just gonna throw out a thought tho that it's from the light because that's when you noticed it and you also switched from cfls to a led which has more power making me wonder if it's from more demand for nutes and you're not used to feeding them like that. looks like the biobizz worked well during veg so I would rule that out and am curious if it's getting worse after you trimmed the leaves. right now they're demanding food for flowering to start plus they got that new light on them. I say raise it up which would also help in case it is light burn. hope that helps but maybe someone else will chime in since it's nice to have two opinions and this is kinda a toughie.

Werner Karl H · Sep 17, 2014

ladyluckybean said:
wow. this is a toughie. I'm just gonna throw out a thought tho that it's from the light because that's when you noticed it and you also switched from cfls to a led which has more power making me wonder if it's from more demand for nutes and you're not used to feeding them like that. looks like the biobizz worked well during veg so I would rule that out and am curious if it's getting worse after you trimmed the leaves. right now they're demanding food for flowering to start plus they got that new light on them. I say raise it up which would also help in case it is light burn. hope that helps but maybe someone else will chime in since it's nice to have two opinions and this is kinda a toughie.

thank you for the kind response!

i thought it was the light too so i moved it as far as i could. i also flushed the plants and changed the nutes to be on the safe side.

after the flush i fed them with GH 3 parts and bloombastic 0.5ml/L.

the leaves at the bottom seems fine but the burn up top keep spreading....

Former Guest · Sep 17, 2014

that is what makes me think its the light. that is pretty fucked for a 180w. just see if you can return it. omg. get a 150w HID. they got a ballast, hood, and bulb setup super cheap at home depot online. Costco too. here's another bump too in case I'm mistaken.

by best piece of advice is to not react so quickly! youre in soil, they're not going to freak out so you have time to figure it out. just be patient. I know it looks bad.

Werner Karl H · Sep 17, 2014

the thing is that i have read a lot about LED and i rarely found people with light burns. especially with low watt LED.

seems odd that it would happen to me.

what about PH fluctuations? would that look like this?

Former Guest · Sep 17, 2014

no. this is all around the edges. I've had that before. potassium can be less available when there is high calcium and nitrogen and can give you dark green leaves with burnt edges making you think that its potassium you need to add when you really just need to lower your nitrogen and calcium. so are you using the lucas formula or all three bottles? the micro has loads of nitrogen and calcium in the GH. maybe you can give them less of this. but don't do anything right now. you've been flushing and adjusting lights and everything so just hold on a second and hopefully someone will help you out besides me. I'm new too so we need some more opinions.

I would agree that this would be weird for leds because I've seen them grow up to touch the lights. how far away were they from the canopy originally and how far are they away now? I would just do this and wait and watch for at least two or three days before trying another approach. :2cents:

Werner Karl H · Sep 17, 2014

ladyluckybean said:
no. this is all around the edges. I've had that before. potassium can be less available when there is high calcium and nitrogen and can give you dark green leaves with burnt edges making you think that its potassium you need to add when you really just need to lower your nitrogen and calcium. so are you using the lucas formula or all three bottles? the micro has loads of nitrogen and calcium in the GH. maybe you can give them less of this. but don't do anything right now. you've been flushing and adjusting lights and everything so just hold on a second and hopefully someone will help you out besides me. I'm new too so we need some more opinions.

I would agree that this would be weird for leds because I've seen them grow up to touch the lights. how far away were they from the canopy originally and how far are they away now? I would just do this and wait and watch for at least two or three days before trying another approach.

the LED is 15-25 cm from the canopy (around 7-10 inches).

i have heard about the lucas formula. i'll google it to see what i can find.

again, thanks alot.

seems odd that no one else can pitch in.

Former Guest · Sep 17, 2014

yeah I saw that you weren't using lucas after I posted. I needed more coffee and a good breakfast and to put the bong down for a bit. oops. don't bother looking up lucas. don't do anymore switching so you can figure out what you're doing that is causing this. I think that might be a little close but for led I have really no experience. the more I think about it, I think it's light burn and not a nute thing because it is effecting the top leaves first and it is not expressing immobile nutrient symptoms as far as I can tell.

here, read this post and then check out and watch each one of these videos in the signature of this guys post. it will help you figure this out. https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6510534&postcount=110

Former Guest · Sep 17, 2014

oh and you should definitely use that biobizz. I had nothing but problems with lockout with GH and switched and had not issues. even tried using it again after I thought I was more experienced and the same thing happened. that biobizz is some premium expensive organic goodness. results indoors looked great from what I saw. just looked at prices though and good grief. that's some spendy shit. but that's just in my experience. many people kill it with GH which is what made me want to try it. good luck! someone might help but since you have the LEDs which most people don't, people will probably hesitate to answer. but if ya don't raise the lights, go back to the biobizz when you can since you were obviously rocking with it before this so that will eliminate any issues if it were a nute thing which i don't think it is but cover your bases, and just wait and wait till it either keeps getting worse and you lose the plants, then try again (I've been there a bunch so I know) or things will get better and new growth will start to happen and you will probably still get an okay harvest

I really hope the best for you and I really hope someone else can chime in who knows about LEDs for ya.

bombadil.360 · Sep 29, 2014

hey Werner,

just saw this thread.

what LEDs are you using?

you know, this last weekend during the holidays I started to experiment on two different set of plants; on one set I kept using the biobizz, I have the same tri-pack as you do I think, bought it at the same store (maybe not the same snif, but same store), and the set of plants with the biobizz showed no growth and the lowest leaves started to yellow out.

on the other set of plants I used a biological fert (ecogan), the bottle I have is over two years old, and the plants grew tons and look very healthy and happy.

I don't trust that biobizz tri-pack at all now, not gonna use it again, that's for sure.

peace

Werner Karl H · Oct 3, 2014

hi all
thank you for the replays!

the leaves are once again showing burn or some def. :puppydoge

only got PH-ed water the last time (2 days ago).

to make matters worse, i found out i have mites- must be from the low RH in the tent. :frown:

i'll take the girls out for a soap/water wash down and maybe some neem oil on the leaves.

i'll post the pics in a little while.

RonSmooth · Oct 3, 2014

Not heat/light. The chlorosis/necroisis along the leaf margins working inward, the necrotic & hooked tips & the location on the plant where the problem started all look like a nutrient issue.

It could be a deficiency caused by an imbalance of another element. Too much of one element can inhibit the uptake of another. Adding more of the same exacerbates the problem. Flushing does little but rinse the soil.

You should note the symptoms and location of the affected leaves. This will help you determine which element is deficient.

Then you need to figure out how much of each essential nutrients you are feeding the plant. pH also comes into play in regards to nutrient uptake. I never measure run off or media pH, only what goes in. Flushing is a knee jerk reaction and used way too often.

Your water is important as well. Why are you mixing RO and tap? What is the EC of your tap water?

Werner Karl H · Oct 3, 2014

RonSmooth said:
Not heat/light. The chlorosis/necroisis along the leaf margins working inward, the necrotic & hooked tips & the location on the plant where the problem started all look like a nutrient issue.

It could be a deficiency caused by an imbalance of another element. Too much of one element can inhibit the uptake of another. Adding more of the same exacerbates the problem. Flushing does little but rinse the soil.

You should note the symptoms and location of the affected leaves. This will help you determine which element is deficient.

Then you need to figure out how much of each essential nutrients you are feeding the plant. pH also comes into play in regards to nutrient uptake. I never measure run off or media pH, only what goes in. Flushing is a knee jerk reaction and used way too often.

Your water is important as well. Why are you mixing RO and tap? What is the EC of your tap water?

thank you for the replay.
i changed the nute from biobizz to GH 3 parts, fearing some underlying nute deficiency.
i mix tap an RO to get the Ca and Mg from the tap, the mixed EC is around 0.2-0.3 mS.

Werner Karl H · Oct 3, 2014

here are recent pics.
the burnt leaves are not the same as the ones before- those were trimmed. the remaining leaves started showing the same burn.

this was taken with flash.

another one

VerdantGreen · Oct 3, 2014

it looks to me like they are growing out of the problem because the new growth seems healthy.(and hopefully it still is)

VerdantGreen · Oct 3, 2014

ok just seen the new pics, are you letting the soil dry out a bit between waterings? have you got some aeration/drainage amendment in there and drainage holes in the bottom of the pots.

the pots shoud feel lighter before you water them again.

Werner Karl H · Oct 3, 2014

VerdantGreen said:
ok just seen the new pics, are you letting the soil dry out a bit between waterings? have you got some aeration/drainage amendment in there and drainage holes in the bottom of the pots.

the pots shoud feel lighter before you water them again.

i allow around 4-5 before i water again. i try to let the soil dry between watering. i do check the weight of the pot. the bottom layer of each pot is hydroton and there are drainage holes in the bottom.

since i have trimmed the leaves, i have to wait more between watering since the plant can not evaporate the water as before (due to less leave surface).

thanks for the replay!

papaduc · Oct 4, 2014

Something you've done has burned them, and it's not the light. If you've fed chemical nutes then allowed the soil to completely dry out, that's probably what it is.

Werner Karl H · Oct 4, 2014

papaduc said:
Something you've done has burned them, and it's not the light. If you've fed chemical nutes then allowed the soil to completely dry out, that's probably what it is.

thank you for the input!

the last time they only got PHed water. i will wait for the pots to dry and feed PHed water again.

hopefully that should help get rid of the problem.

nute burn / LED light burn/ bad nutes?- help a new grower

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