The High-Pod Mini

Hello All,

I’m new to the forum and new to growing cannabis. I have no experience whatsoever so I thought I’d post my idea for my first grow to elicit feedback that might help me make it a successful first run.

My main idea for a grow cabinet comes from Inefectualize’s High-Pod. My thought was to create a smaller version (The High-Pod Mini) that would allow me to enter “The Official 1 Sqft Challenge”.

The High-Pod Mini
(6) 24 watt Philips PLL lights - 12.5 inches long, 1,800 lumens, 4100K
(1) Rubbermaid Brute 10 Gallon White Trash Can - 14 Inches diameter, 16 inches high
(1) Fulham Workhorse 8 Ballast
The rest as pretty much as outlined in the high-pod thread.

Built as outlined above, the High-Pod Mini will have the following specs:
Total watts = 144
Total Sqft = 1.07
Total Cubic Feet = 1.42
Total Lumens = 10,800
Watts/sqft = 134
Lumens/sqft = 10,093

The original High-Pod had the following specs:
Total watts = 390
Total Sqft = 3.14
Total Cubic Feet = 3.93
Total Lumens = 25,800
Watts/sqft = 124
Lumens/sqft = 8,216

The High-Pod Mini has a bit more light which is probably not necessary, but that’s just how it worked out with those bulbs. Maybe 4 bulbs would be sufficient?

The Cannabis
CannaBiogen’s Destroyer
CannaBiogen’s Panama
Ace’s Zamaldelica
Ace’s Malawi
Ace’s Bangi Haze
Ace’s Golden Tiger

I realize that choosing these sativas out of the gate may be more difficult, but it is what I’m interested in smoking. I've taken the time to read the “Revival of the Ultimate Sativa thread” and “Revival of the Ultimate Sativa Grow thread” as well as many threads for beginners and micro grows so hopefully I’m prepared. Of the strains listed, which ones are the easiest for a novice to cultivate in the High-Pod Mini?

My initial thoughts are to start on a 12/12 light cycle from seed using soil. One of the reasons I want to use this type of grow is to avoid cropping, training, etc… Is this feasible with these strains? Please feel free to comment/critique my concept as I haven’t actually built anything yet. The biggest problem I see is the height.

Height will certainly be an issue with sativas, so you will most likely need to start 12/12 from seed in conjunction with heavy LST or topping to control the stretch. You will presumably need to limit it to one plant, too, for such a small space, and that would be tough to do with non-feminized seeds. That all being said, I've never grown any Ace strains so I can't weigh in on those strains, specifically.

As far as your design, you didn't mention fans, but that's a lot of heat in a small space, so make sure you over cool it. You might try either lowering the wattage or just duplicating the original high pod's specs.

I don't mean to discourage you, though. I hope you move forward with a grow of some sort and keep this journal updated. I'll tag along.

Thanks for the comments Hush. Regarding cooling, I'm just going to do what Inefectualize did with the high-pod; lights in cooling tubes with elbows at the bottom and a smaller fan at the top for extraction.

I noticed with the grow in the original high-pod that growth seemed to be directed more outward rather than upward. As I recall it had a unique circular growth pattern and I don't think he did anything to limit height. Ideally I'd really like to not do much more than minimize nutrients, and put it in a small pot.

Keep in mind, though, that you are downsizing his design, so it won't be exactly the same. The size space you are talking about is going to be very constrictive, and then on top of that you are looking at sativas. This is just my personal opinion, so keep that in mind, but in my view you should only look at compact indicas for such a tiny space, or you should try not to downsize the original design, which was already small to begin with.

Thanks for the candor Hush. I'll have to really think about going as small as outlined. Technically it seems sound, but it probably isn't suitable for a complete novice. Hopefully others will weigh in as well.

I do believe you could make a smaller design work, but my advice is to probably avoid using sativas, unless you can source cuttings, and flower them right after rooting with no veg time, and even then you would need to find genetics that don't stretch much. Hopefully others will chime in here for you.

Good luck to you, man.

Regarding the stretch, I do believe that the 360 light will help reduce it. I know there are other things that can be used like temperature, nutrients, light intensity, root constraint, plant hormones and stuff I don't want to do like LST, topping, and cropping could all be used too.

Also, I have read a few threads where some of the Ace strains that I'm interested in growing have been grown micro style successfully. I read somewhere that creating a differential between night temp and day temp where the night temp is warmer will reduce stretch. I definitely won't compromise on the strain selection. I'd rather use a taller design like the original high-pod than grow indicas or hybrids.

I just did ace panama and a kali-destroyer hybrid in 2.25inch wide pots in a 26 gallon tub. I trimmed and topped, but they still stretched 2-3 times. Just be sure to factor in the stretch. I would also skip the dirt (unless you are hoping the dirt will keep the plants small). I think a 12+ weeker will eat up everything in the pot after so long.

3dDream, how tall did the kali-destroyer get? I was hoping the dirt would keep the plant small and I'm not prepared to try hydroponic yet! I'm aiming to grow a plant 12" tall and about 12"-13" in diameter. Did you keep a grow log for the kali-destroyer?

Cliffnotes: use those tubes in a regular scrog., better yet go LED. If you really want a vert design, a cooltube down the center of the can with a 250hid would smash those PLLs imo.

Timmur, I've had a a high-pod for over five years now.
I've been tweaking it with each run, but I just can't get decent gpw numbers from it.
I'm pretty sure a 250w or 400w down the center in a cooltube type vent would be superior re the fullsize design.

Heat:
PLLs are get pretty hot, especially the sockets. I've run through dozens of designs for the acrylic tubes to get good airflow. The tops need to be drilled and notched a certain way to cool those sockets.
Temps easily exceed 100degrees in the can if the fan is off, and it doesnt take long. Don't skimp on the fan.
You need some ventilation in the can as well, so the top fan pulls out can air instead of JUST a closed system through the tubes. Or a secondary exhaust. This is another tricky one to tweak.. getting proper flow through the tubes to cool those red hot pokers, and still venting some air from the can.

At best I could get the tubes down to 79-85 depending on seasons, with an infrared therm pointed at them... however, if plant matter touches them, it will burn over time. A secondary fence or larger tube is helpful. Keeping temps in the can below 80 is possible, but requires constant attention to the canopy.. too much foliage messes with the delicate airflow balance.
One thing I never bothered with is a bigger fan... as I felt the project was no longer worth more investment. But I did buy a small fan in the bottom of the can blowing up thru the canopy.

Stretch:
Yea, they still stretch. I finally ended up with a 4:2 red to cool ratio in the can, but tried others.. I had a couple strains double in stretch.. and a couple triple in stretch, and a SSH that I just circled around like a vine. You can manage almost anything if you know what you're working with. Basically don't count on the vertical lights to stop stretch.

Training is vital to these kinds of grows IMO... just letting a bush grow in the middle hasn't panned out at all.. that said, this design is a bitch to train while inside the can.

Ended up using the widest wicker basket I could fit in there and still pull in and out, filled it with coco/perlite.. and jam 2 or 3 plants into it.
then did a round scrog screen 7" above the soil line, with a few stakes that reach to the top for tying things to.. fill the perimeter of the screen, dont bother filling the middle.
Put a dripline into the basket and a drain valve on the bottom of the can... also a sponge and rag to get the floor of the can dry.

Here's a pic of v.1
https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=912&pictureid=59387

timmur - I trained it by topping and bending many times in veg. So I trained them to be 8"-2ft. I think dirt will keep them small, but if you want the most out of your space you will need to train them to be under the sweet spot of your light. I find that I am never aggressive enough. A jungle sativa knows how to survive.

I have a thread "100w led - stealthy stacked tubs". Right now I am searching for a nice mom or two and am drying now. I had 13 ladies in all including a haze dom, 4 ace panama, and 4 kali-destroyer (really MOD's MOD bx2 X (MOD bx2 X f13)...MOD BX was a kali X destroyer cross by an old breeder). I played with a couple of ways of training. The best plants were the ones that I trained the most to stay under the light. Half got out of my control for not being aggressive enough with my chopping/bending. I let them get too big in flower and they stretched 3x.

@ hyposomniac
I'll have to do some research on LED. Up until now I've focused on T5 HO and PLL setups mostly because they seem to offer relatively low heat/fairly high lumens per watt. A scrog setup is not out of the question at this point, but I hadn't really considered a cooltube in the center arrangement. Any recommendations on LED? I know I should look this up, but can you tell me how many lumens you can get out of a 250 watt HID? It seems like heat would be even more difficult to manage with the HID than with the PLLs.

If I decide to go through with the high-pod design, I have some ideas on how to solve the cooling issue. Thanks for bringing it to my attention though as it apparently wasn't an issue in the original high-pod thread. You mentioned that you've never really achieved decent gpw numbers with the high-pod; can you share your numbers?

Regarding the stretch, my thought was light coming from sides rather than the top seemed to reduce internodal distance and I've read that light intensity helps reduce it as well. Sounds like that still is not enough to keep some of the pure sativas in check. I really liked the idea of growing a bush with no training. If that isn't feasible then I might scrap the design and go a different direction. I had been considering manipulating day and night temperatures, using kinetin, as well as using small pot/soil to limit stretch. The problem is I have no idea how much impact any of these have and their potential downsides. seems like alot of hassle when just going to a bigger setup would make things easier.

@3dDream
Thanks for specific details on training the Ace panama and kali-destroyer. I'll go read your thread too. I was a little confused by this comment however.

but if you want the most out of your space you will need to train them to be under the sweet spot of your light.

Click to expand...

In a vertical 360 grow it doesn't seem like you're really ever under the sweet spot of light? Am I missing something?

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I really appreciate it.

Ha! Good point! I was thinking of my setup.

You should do it. Things like this keep your mind working, helping you learn to problem solve. Believe me whether your growing in a small cab or a big room, problem solving is a constant thing.

Paper thorn, I probably will go forward in spite of the challenge. Thanks for the encouragement!

Slight change of plans. I still like the 360 degree vertical light arrangement and florescents, but I think I will scale up rather than try to grow those sativas in such a limited space. I believe it can be done and it seems that many have done so, but for a little more money a much larger yield should be obtainable with my revised plan. Before I lay out the revision, I'd like to thank everyone for the valuable input. It really helped me solidify my plan and change it for the better (I think!).

@hush
I believe this plan is similar to one you talked about at one point so I know I'm not breaking any new ground here!

The Revised Plan
(1) 2'x2'x6' grow tent - maybe this one
(6) Sun Blaster 4' strip light/w reflector
(1) Active Air 4" Inline Fan, 165cfm - is this enough air exchange/cooling?

The New Stats
Total watts = 324
Total Sqft = 4
Total Cubic Feet = 24
Total Lumens = 40,000
Watts/sqft = 81
Lumens/sqft = 10,000

The plan is to grow a tree in soil. Given the same strain selection as before, I will still need to minimize stretch, but I should be able to veg to about 10"-12"? I'm concerned about heat. In particular I'm wondering if the HO T5's will run cool enough to let the plant actually touch them.

They can touch the t5 tubes, but if they are touching the tubes near where the ballast is they will burn.

Thanks paper thorn!

I'm getting pumped 'cause I ordered most of the stuff I need to build this thing. It should be mostly built by this weekend with the exception of the ventilation. I still need to make some decisions there. I changed things up one last time as follows:

The cabinet

The lights (48" ones x 4)

The hydro setup


The Really New Stats
Total watts = 216
Total Sqft = 1.77
Total Cubic Feet = 7.07
Total Lumens = 20,088
Watts/sqft = 122
Lumens/sqft = 11,349

I still plan on growing some Ace sativa, but the first run will be with be a locally acquired clone. Of the choices available, I'm thinking of trying LSD strain. I'll have to try it first as I've never smoked it before. Any feedback on this strain? I'm planning on a max height of 4 feet in the chamber even though I have about 10 more inches as the lights are only 4 feet long. Will LSD get this high?

Just a quick update. I got the lights, DWC setup, and cabinet in the mail today and started assembly. I installed 3 out of the 4 lights and prepared the DWC setup. Still have to install the last light onto the door, run the wires, and figure out the ventilation. It's coming together nicely. These lights don't seem to put out much heat. Any suggestions on ventilation/cooling? No worries about smell as I have my old brewery out in the garage to keep it in. Temperature control in that room is already taken care of. I have heat for winter and cooling for summer.

Just another quick update. Got the last light installed. Still looking for advice on the ventilation/cooling. Anyone?