600w Ebb & Flow Closet Grow

70wDreams · Apr 21, 2014

System:

4ft x 1.5ft Ebb & Flow Table
Dutch Pro Nutrients
4" Nette Potts with Expanded Clay Pellets
Floods 6x a day for 15 minutes each time

Lights:

4' T8 6 Bulb Fixture
6x32w = 192w
4 x Blue Spectrum
2 x Red Spectrum

600w Adjustable Digital HPS
50% 75% 100% adjustable
Cooltube

My Previous Grow
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=160451
-The prelude to this thread
-Includes build photos of a tiny grow cabinet!

I would love to post some photos, but it seems I've run out of space and I'm not sure how to fix that.

70wDreams · Apr 21, 2014

Clones were taken Jan 1st. They were cut, rooting hormone gel applied, placed into rockwol cubes in 4" nette pots with hydroton, and placed on the table. Clear plastic cups covered the cuttings for the first month. Misted daily for a few weeks.

6 in the back row
5 in the middle row (middle one didn't make it)
6 in the front row (far left one didn't make it)

All but 2 survived!

Growth was non-existant during January.
Growth was nearly non-existant during February, except two clones that were rooted early.
Growth began to pickup during March and was vigorous by the end of the month.
Growth has been rapid during April, but seems to have slowed by mid-month.

I began feeding with 1/4 strength nutrients since day 1 and try to keep the Ph at 5.8.

Up to 1/2 stregnth+ nutrients now.

I top off with tap water about every other day and completely change the res. once a week.

To keep the bacteria down, I add a splash of 30% H2O2 when I mix up a new res. and every few days.

One time I didn't change out the res for almost two weeks and the res. smelt "fishy" or like an aquarium that needed cleaning. The plants were stunted slightly.

I haven't topped or fimm'd or LST'd these at all. They are spaced about 10" apart and have a fairly compact inter-nodal spacing, so I want to see what they'll look like w/o a screen of green.

I've defoliated a bit and plan to take cuttings from many of the lower branches that I don't believe will produce quality bud.

I feel by the end of the month, maybe sooner, 12/12 flower cycle will be started.

This strain is Indica-dominant and won't bolt too much after flowering begins. The T8 bank is pretty close to the canopy, keeping the top nodes really tight.

Next grow I'll definitely root the cuttings before they are placed in the table so there aren't any missing spots.

5th · Apr 21, 2014

Sounds good. Can't wait until ya get the pics up.

Got my seat nice n' early. :tiphat:

70wDreams · Apr 21, 2014

I was shamelessly giving props to other people to bump my post count to 50, yet my storage hasn't gone up yet.

Here's what I could squeeze into my last 24kb of space:

dstark · Apr 21, 2014

Subbed, everything looks neat!

70wDreams · Apr 21, 2014

Woot! Looks like my storage just kicked over.

The 600w HPS Cooltube is ready to be kicked on - just waiting until the end of the month so they are a bit chunkier

They have been pretty hearty so far, but there are signs of problems. Cal/Mag deficiency and PH fluxuations? I'm not sure. They are a bit too yellow at the tops I believe...

Also - what causes purple stems? Genetics? Nutrient issues? Temperatures? In a previous grow, one plant had this quality... guessing it was genetics then. My last grow, with these same genetics, there were no purple stems. The mothers started turning funky colors... nutrient buildup? rootboundness? temps? ph? I don't know, but I'm not stressing too much. It would be nice to feel I really understood hydroponics though! haha

Edit: After a bit of reading I found that a lack of nitrogen can cause stems to turn purple. Am I going too easy on the nutrients or was the out of balance PH causing nutrient lock-out? whoa, I might be starting to understand this!

This is my second hydro gro, so if you have suggestions or tips, let me know! Thanks for watching! Keep it green

70wDreams · Apr 26, 2014

to bloom or not to bloom?

to bloom or not to bloom?

Today is the last day of the 4th or 8th week of veg or so. I'm not exactly sure because the cuttings were rooted in the homes they have now.

March 1st (8 wks ago) I noted that the clones were "re-vitalized" - had obviously rooted and were putting on new growth. (that's 2 months of the clones taking root... way too long...)

April 1st (4 wks ago) I noted that the clones were "very vitalized" meaning they began their growth spurt.

I'm not sure when to call the beginning of veg, but having those notes is pretty important.

Top-down shot

Profile shot

Science

Currently using:
30ml Grow A
30ml Grow B
(~100% strength for 5gal res. Mine is 7gal, but I mix as if it were 5gal. Also, that's the low end of the full strength dosage reccomendation. I may be under-nuting, i'm not sure.)
+plus
~5ml CalMag
~5ml Multi Total
~2ml Take Root
~2ml Explode
few drops of the Rapid Root

~5-10ml 30% H2O2 (add about 5ml every 2nd or 3rd day as well)

PH off the tap = 10.0
PPM off tap = 175

After Nutrients & PH Adjustment
PH = 5.8
PPM = 475

Zoomed-out Profile Shot

(the T8 bank is raised for the photo - it is usually 1" or so above the top most shoots)

So... I know this strain doesn't stretch too much, and they have really slowed their stretch recently. But, I just began reducing their light cycle.

I was planning on waiting until the end of the month (another week) for the bud sites to fill out more...

But should I go ahead and start flowering ASAP? I'm worried the canopy will get too close to the 600w.

And speaking of... I may only run it at 50% power. I'm not sure the ventilation can keep up with the heat in such a small area.

Your input is appreciated!

70wDreams · Apr 26, 2014

I turned on the HPS to test temps. 100% is for sure waaaaay too hot. 50% may be too... humm....

^ Heavy defoliation occurred prior to this photo. Shavin' those legs. I hope to take the next batch of 20+ clones from the understory of these very soon.

Thoughts? I would hate to have to revert back to the 3x 70w lights and work on air-cooling them. I may be packing too much punch into too small of a space with this 600w...

Wu Wei · Apr 26, 2014

Hey 70w, they look really nice and happy great stuff! How big is your space?

Peace Brother :ying:

70wDreams · Apr 26, 2014

Wu Wei said:
Hey 70w, they look really nice and happy great stuff! How big is your space?

Peace Brother

Thanks Wu!

The table is 1.5ft x 4ft.

There isnt much room, maybe an inch, between the table and the back wall. Same with the front/entrance. But, there is about a foot on either side of the table. The sides are where air passively enters.

The total height is 8ft

There is about 3ft of space between the top of the nette pots and the HPS.

70wDreams · Apr 27, 2014

Well, with the AC at 74, the Can Fan at 75%, and the light at 50% the temps seem stable at 80-83.

I've started to think about humidity. As far as my cheap thermostat reads, its below 30%. I'm wondering about a water wick or evaporating dish, or putting a block of ice to the left of the res. I guess i could get a humidifier.. but the air is exchanged in that small space so fast...

ideas? feedback? questions?

Wu Wei · Apr 27, 2014

70wDreams said:
Thanks Wu!

The table is 1.5ft x 4ft.

There isnt much room, maybe an inch, between the table and the back wall. Same with the front/entrance. But, there is about a foot on either side of the table. The sides are where air passively enters.

The total height is 8ft

There is about 3ft of space between the top of the nette pots and the HPS.

Hey 70w. Cool budd not super small then.

Have you tried getting a small fan and blowing it up directly at the cooltube, that could keep the heat from sitting below... I would have the fan on a very low speed though to keep the hot air from blowing around your space.

They look really nice though great job, I will look forward to seeing some lovely buds

you could always train them through flower too, tying branches down or bending them over

Peace Brother :ying:

70wDreams · Apr 27, 2014

Wu Wei said:
Hey 70w. Cool budd not super small then.

Have you tried getting a small fan and blowing it up directly at the cooltube, that could keep the heat from sitting below... I would have the fan on a very low speed though to keep the hot air from blowing around your space.

They look really nice though great job, I will look forward to seeing some lovely buds you could always train them through flower too, tying branches down or bending them over

Peace Brother

Wu Wu!

I suppose it didn't appear in any of the photos, but there is an 8" fan at the far left blowing across the plants - circulating air in the room. There's also another one on the floor, below that fan, that is blowing up - trying to encourage that cool air to move around the area.

I suppose during that first week or so of flowering, when they are stretching like crazy, I can LST them a bit.

This grow round is inspired by some photos I saw where the grower didnt top or LST his plants - they produced one huge cola. Mine seemed to kinda bush out on their own, so thats out other than all those nice main colas.

It's too late now, but next round I am very tempted to make this a SCROG and veg until winter.

It'll be really interesting to see the buds here. I grew this same strain last round and it was absolutely covered in trichomes. Very anxious to see how the new light/better nutrient attention does.

In other news: Today a Sweet Island Skunk seed broke ground! Lets hope its a non-auto-flowering female. All of the seeds I've recently started (Lemon Haze and Purple Chunk) have been autoflowering for some reason. Worst case scenario - I take some pollen samples and cross some strains! I captured the Lemon Haze's pollen, but I don't know if I want to make a lot of potentially auto-flowering seeds. Auto flowering doesn't work for me. Gotta have my mini-moms!

:biggrin:

Wu Wei · Apr 27, 2014

70wDreams said:
Wu Wu!

I suppose it didn't appear in any of the photos, but there is an 8" fan at the far left blowing across the plants - circulating air in the room. There's also another one on the floor, below that fan, that is blowing up - trying to encourage that cool air to move around the area.

I suppose during that first week or so of flowering, when they are stretching like crazy, I can LST them a bit.

This grow round is inspired by some photos I saw where the grower didnt top or LST his plants - they produced one huge cola. Mine seemed to kinda bush out on their own, so thats out other than all those nice main colas.

It's too late now, but next round I am very tempted to make this a SCROG and veg until winter.

It'll be really interesting to see the buds here. I grew this same strain last round and it was absolutely covered in trichomes. Very anxious to see how the new light/better nutrient attention does.

In other news: Today a Sweet Island Skunk seed broke ground! Lets hope its a non-auto-flowering female. All of the seeds I've recently started (Lemon Haze and Purple Chunk) have been autoflowering for some reason. Worst case scenario - I take some pollen samples and cross some strains! I captured the Lemon Haze's pollen, but I don't know if I want to make a lot of potentially auto-flowering seeds. Auto flowering doesn't work for me. Gotta have my mini-moms!

Hey 70w i did see a white fan in the picture... I was just trying to let you know that blowing air directly up at the light will help a lot with a 600w hps instead of across the tops, but it would have to be on a slow speed. Also in a space that size to many fans is not good as you will just blow hot air around the room before it has time to be extracted and circulate, I would have your fans on the lowest speeds, sounds crazy right? But its true so the hot air can be sucked out of the room instead of blown around!

LST could help if they are stretchy plants.

Sounds cool are you not a fan of topping? With topping and LST you can achieve a bush with many fat colas, rather than a christmas tree type plant

That will be cool I am sure you will need more than one top to scrog buddy.

It will be great to see them flower and I am sure you will do a great job! Sounds nice... What strain are they?

That sweet island skunk sounds really nice, what do you mean let's hope it is not a autoflowerer lol where did you get the seeds? They sound nice and you could make some lemon haze autos I you have the pollen, you could grow loads of outdoor autos

Peace Brother :ying:

70wDreams · Apr 27, 2014

Wu Wei said:
Hey 70w i did see a white fan in the picture... I was just trying to let you know that blowing air directly up at the light will help a lot with a 600w hps instead of across the tops, but it would have to be on a slow speed. Also in a space that size to many fans is not good as you will just blow hot air around the room before it has time to be extracted and circulate, I would have your fans on the lowest speeds, sounds crazy right? But its true so the hot air can be sucked out of the room instead of blown around!

LST could help if they are stretchy plants.

Sounds cool are you not a fan of topping? With topping and LST you can achieve a bush with many fat colas, rather than a christmas tree type plant

That will be cool I am sure you will need more than one top to scrog buddy.

It will be great to see them flower and I am sure you will do a great job! Sounds nice... What strain are they?

That sweet island skunk sounds really nice, what do you mean let's hope it is not a autoflowerer lol where did you get the seeds? They sound nice and you could make some lemon haze autos I you have the pollen, you could grow loads of outdoor autos

Peace Brother

Hey Wu,

I appreciate the advice about the fan. That's good food for thought. Maybe the fan on the far left is better served pointed up a bit, more at the light than the plants.

I'm a fan of both LST and Topping, but for this one grow I wanted to see what would happen if I left the plants to their own devices. This grow there are 15 clones (should have been 17). From dead center, they are spaced about 8-10" apart, so they form a pretty tight canopy so far. It seems the main colas will jump above a lower canopy that is forming (christmas tree effect) One of them (front right) decided to bush out a bit lower than all the others. I think its because it was stressed/stunted for a little bit.

On my last grow, I had 8 plants. I topped soon and aggressively and each plant had many colas (8-16+), all stemming from near the crown of the plant. I was thinking I really slowed them down by doing this.

If I SCROG on the next grow, there will be tons of topping and LSTing!

Oh, and I don't know what strain they are. Basically some bagseed - had 3 plants, picked the one I liked the most. What I am growing now are the same clones I grew in the last go round (6/8 are - 2/8 were a sativa i killed off)

The Sweet Island Skunk came from some bud I picked up. Bagseed, but I knew what the strain was. The aroma is pure sugar+mountain laurel. I keep the bag it came in just to sniff. :biggrin:

Do you have a journal going?

Keep it green!

Wu Wei · Apr 28, 2014

70wDreams said:
Hey Wu,

I appreciate the advice about the fan. That's good food for thought. Maybe the fan on the far left is better served pointed up a bit, more at the light than the plants.

I'm a fan of both LST and Topping, but for this one grow I wanted to see what would happen if I left the plants to their own devices. This grow there are 15 clones (should have been 17). From dead center, they are spaced about 8-10" apart, so they form a pretty tight canopy so far. It seems the main colas will jump above a lower canopy that is forming (christmas tree effect) One of them (front right) decided to bush out a bit lower than all the others. I think its because it was stressed/stunted for a little bit.

On my last grow, I had 8 plants. I topped soon and aggressively and each plant had many colas (8-16+), all stemming from near the crown of the plant. I was thinking I really slowed them down by doing this.

If I SCROG on the next grow, there will be tons of topping and LSTing!

Oh, and I don't know what strain they are. Basically some bagseed - had 3 plants, picked the one I liked the most. What I am growing now are the same clones I grew in the last go round (6/8 are - 2/8 were a sativa i killed off)

The Sweet Island Skunk came from some bud I picked up. Bagseed, but I knew what the strain was. The aroma is pure sugar+mountain laurel. I keep the bag it came in just to sniff.

Do you have a journal going?

Keep it green!

Hey 70w, it dose work but only on a low speed so the air dose not blow around. How much m3h is your inline fan pulling budd, what size is it?

Ah I understand, you are doing a little SOG instead of fewer bushes, its a lot quicker that way! I am not sure how the one bushed out more than the rest it could well be stress or received more light to bush out more?

Cool your last grow sounds awesome too I bet they were really nice with all of them topps

how much did you yield budd?

That will be cool to see you doing a scrog I am sure it will be great!!

Ah cool what type of smell are they, yea they look very sative and sticky, do they strech a lot when flipped?

Ah right the sweet island skunk sounds awesome too, nice stuff! Haha it must be sweet if you keep the bag to sniff

Here is the link to my thread and it is my first grow!!! Nothing much to see still very young, tomorrow I will be updating

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=283265

Peace Brother :ying:

70wDreams · May 5, 2014

First official day of Flower!

Starting a week ago, I transitioned them to the 12/12 cycle by removing an hour of light per day. The light was at 50% power.

600w HPS @ 75% power (450 watts)

Temp ~82f

Lots of stretch this week! I hope they stop soon. They should.

Reservoir Change Day
-Emptied entire Res. and washed out with isopropyl alcohol.
Tap PH = 10.0
Tap PPM = 175

Transitioning to Bloom Nutrients.

Veg/Bloom Nutrient Formulas
Per 1 gal-----per 5 gal-----1/2 strength-----1/4 strength
8-12ml-------40-76ml------20-38ml---------10-19ml

Added
Bloom A = 20ml (on the low end of 1/2 strength)
Bloom B = 20ml
CalMag = 5ml
Multi = 3ml
Explode = 3ml

H2O2 = 5-10ml (I don't really measure. I just add a splash. It might be about 1oz each time)

Pre-PH Adjustment
PH = 8.1
PPM = 310

Post-PH Adjustment
PH = 5.6 (whoops)
PPM = 383

Root Pr0n

I've found some small white bugs crawling around the black nette pots and the hydroton. I'm not sure if they are springtails or root aphids or what. Last grow I had springtails and there weren't any negative impacts. Some research actually said they were a sign of a healthy system.

The small box of dreams:

24 Clones (3? 7? days old. Ugh. Forgot to note that.)

Moms, New Moms, and the Sweet Island Skunk

70wDreams · May 5, 2014

But there are some problems.

One plant, and only one plant, is doing this:

I don't know. WTF?

70wDreams · May 13, 2014

Starting Week 2 Flower

Little buds starting to form

"The stretch" is nearly over

Cool, Tube

Res. Change Day
-Emptied entire Res. and washed out with isopropyl alcohol.
Tap PH = 10.0
Tap PPM = 175

Bloom Nutrients @ 1/2

Veg/Bloom Nutrient Formulas
Per 1 gal-----per 5 gal-----1/2 strength-----1/4 strength
8-12ml-------40-76ml------20-38ml---------10-19ml

Added
Bloom A = 30ml (1/2 strength)
Bloom B = 30ml
CalMag = 5ml
Multi = 3ml
Explode = 5ml

H2O2 = 5-10ml

Pre-PH Adjustment
PH = 7.8
PPM = 460

Post-PH Adjustment
PH =
PPM =

------------

Also, it seems a fungus gnat infestation has begun. What's a grower to do?

Wu Wei · May 15, 2014

Hey 70, they look great and happy, nice job! Sweet looking roots too

Peace brother

600w Ebb & Flow Closet Grow

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