Novice grow, veteran mentored

sahdgrower · Dec 23, 2013

Greetings Fellow Growers,

Thank you all for stopping in. I am a novice grower (with a little experience) starting my first indoor 215 grow. I have been fortunate to stumble on ICMag and have had some veteran growers express willingness to watch me grow and control me remotely

Hopefully I can avoid many of the pitfalls of the pitiful in this way. So, here is my grow.

Built an 8'x8'x7' grow room in an unfinished basement. Temperature down there is a consistent 60F with some seasonal swing. I will only be using a portion of the room until more lighting is procured.

I will be running TGA Subcool Vortex from seed. Ten seeds were planted on 12-12-13 and all of them germinated on 12-16-13. I planted them in 1.5" rockwool cubes presoaked in PH 5.5 tap water. Seedlings are being hand dunked in a .75ml/L technaflora b1 red and ph 5.8 solution. They are currently under 120w fluoro and will be moved under 6bulb HO T5 this evening on an 18/6 lighting schedule. An additional 600w Gavita HPS will be added when determined appropriate.

I intend to run 4 plants in individual DWC buckets to allow the greatest ability to control the needs of each plants/phenotype expressed, with the ultimate goal to build a veg room to house the best mom(s) so that I can grow an individual phenotype in an RDWC system (see Snype's RDWC tutorial ). Snype has advised me that I would be best served to do it this way as the RDWC is best used for a single phenotype for ultimate efficiency. Pictures to follow.

sahdgrower · Dec 23, 2013

On 12-20-13 I pulled the cubes off the tray I started them on and put them each in the bottom of a 5.5" net pot and then surrounded the cube with hyrdoton.

As the plants grow I will fill in more hydroton until it reaches the top of the net pots. I believe this will develop significant axillary roots and should hopefully add to overall root mass. I put the net pots in my Ebb and Flow system (not running) to suspend the roots in a darkened environment so they can grow out of the bottom and sides of the net pot.

This is picture from 12-23-13 of little roots poking out of the bottom. Camera is rotated not the pot hehe. Everyone looks happy and growing well.

LyryC · Dec 23, 2013

nice i'll be watching

:lurk:

don't be afraid to ask questions in here either :wave:

Snype · Dec 23, 2013

Looking good so far! Pay close attention to exactly how often you are dunking those. The way that I dunk is I dunk into a bucket of your solution for about 30 seconds per plant.

Before you dunk, observe the roots that you can see. You dont want them to dry out. Also observe the bottom of the rockwool cube. When you tip the pot to a 45 degree angle, the rockwool should not want to almost drip. You also want to look at the bottom section of the clay pebbles. You dont want them to dry out. You want to pay attention to these 3 variables in the very early stages. These next 7 days will be important. If you do it right, you will get crazy roots and be able to flood the tray very frequently.

From the looks of your last pics, I would estimate that your plant need to be dunked every 12 hours. Im not at your location though so That is an estimate. I dont think you will have to dunk more frequently than 12 hours at this point. 12 hour dunks may also be too frequent as well but 24 hour dunks should be made if other hours are wrong. Only you will know. Once more roots form very soon, your dunk schedule will be very different and very frequent. You will most likely be flooding for that process. Make sure that your room and root zone is at least 65 degrees right now. Write your data including dunk frequencies into this journal. Whatever you do, dont add any nutes besides the B1-red. That has nutes in it at a very light strength. And remember, if you were running clones, you would be using my GH formulas and not what you are using now.

Some questions:

1. What brand and model is your PPM meter?

2. What brand and model is your pH meter?

3. Tell me more about your water? Is it RO or tap? If you are using tap, what is the pH and PPM of your water?

sahdgrower · Dec 23, 2013

So far I have been observing as you suggested and have been dunking every 24 hours. I will increase my monitoring to make sure I get to them at the right time. Also so far I have been dunking them all at the same time but now I will pay more attention to each individual. I have been keeping the temperature in the room 70-75F with a night time drop of 5-10F.

I am using BlueLab PH pen and bluelab ppm pen.

My water is tap which ph 8.7 and 150-170ppm (500scale). I have also tested it for chlorination (Hannah Hl701)and it tests at .7ppm so I was not intending on adding any bleach to my individual dwc buckets as I will be changing them on a weekly basis.

[mastermind] · Dec 24, 2013

interessting projekt
happy x mas!

sahdgrower · Dec 26, 2013

Update

Update

So Christmas ran me ragged but it was great fun, especially for the kids!

Anywho, little seedlings are comin along. I have moved them under my 6 bulb T5 light and have increased the dunk schedule to every 12 hours. Still using only the B1 red. They are now 10 days old and almost reaching the top of the net pot. I will start burying them in Hydroton (which I shorthand H2K in my notes) up to the first node over the next few days.

Snype · Dec 26, 2013

sahdgrower said:
So Christmas ran me ragged but it was great fun, especially for the kids!

Anywho, little seedlings are comin along. I have moved them under my 6 bulb T5 light and have increased the dunk schedule to every 12 hours. Still using only the B1 red. They are now 10 days old and almost reaching the top of the net pot. I will start burying them in Hydroton (which I shorthand H2K in my notes) up to the first node over the next few days.

Nice! Dont put the light too close but you are doing well! Because you are not able to dunk more often because the roots are not ready, place the 6 bulb T5 at least 18" above the top of the net pot.

As your dunk cycle becomes more frequent, you will lower them gradually until your flood cycle is every hour then the light will be right on top of them.

The fact that you are able to dunk every 12 hours tells me that things are going well. I really want to see root pictures within the next couple of days to give you the best opinion as to how things are going.

Now that you are dunking every 12 hours, you need to get your flood table and rez ready to use. Make sure they are very clean and sanitized. If you havent done that yet, make sure you rinsed out everything real well after using bleach. Let everything dry before filling up the rez because bleach solution can hang around and damage plants at those concentrations.

Before you fill up the rez and start your first flood, I must know some things. Things are going to go fast any day now so lets make sure you are on top of things.

1. What is the exact amount of B1 that they are getting per Gallon?

2. Are you using anything else like bleach, chlorine or Clorox? If you are, how much?

3. How are the leaves responding to your formula? Explain in detail.

4. Are their any burn marks on the leaves?

5. Are the leaves perfect or are they looking problematic?

The newest growth is a good place to judge the current health of the plant. Keep your pH above 5.8 and below 6.2. I like to be at 6.0 where you are at.

sahdgrower · Dec 28, 2013

Snype said:
Nice! Dont put the light too close but you are doing well! Because you are not able to dunk more often because the roots are not ready, place the 6 bulb T5 at least 18" above the top of the net pot.

As your dunk cycle becomes more frequent, you will lower them gradually until your flood cycle is every hour then the light will be right on top of them.

The fact that you are able to dunk every 12 hours tells me that things are going well. I really want to see root pictures within the next couple of days to give you the best opinion as to how things are going.

Now that you are dunking every 12 hours, you need to get your flood table and rez ready to use. Make sure they are very clean and sanitized. If you havent done that yet, make sure you rinsed out everything real well after using bleach. Let everything dry before filling up the rez because bleach solution can hang around and damage plants at those concentrations.

Before you fill up the rez and start your first flood, I must know some things. Things are going to go fast any day now so lets make sure you are on top of things.

1. What is the exact amount of B1 that they are getting per Gallon?

I am trying to convert to metric so .75ml/Liter B1 very close to 1/2tsp/gallon
2. Are you using anything else like bleach, chlorine or Clorox? If you are, how much?
No other additives but water is pretty hard tap(150-200ppm) and chlorine tests at .7ppm

3. How are the leaves responding to your formula? Explain in detail.
Everything seems very good, have noted mild twisting of leaves but it corrects itself, so I attributed it merely to growth. Also appear to be lightening especially at new growth maybe a little lightening of some of the leaves as well but could be my imagination.

4. Are their any burn marks on the leaves?
No burn marks on the leaves but I have noticed some of the root tips turning brown, I am not sure if it is from exposure to too much light or if they are getting too dry.

5. Are the leaves perfect or are they looking problematic?
Mostly perfect with exception noted above. They seem ready for food.

The newest growth is a good place to judge the current health of the plant. Keep your pH above 5.8 and below 6.2. I like to be at 6.0 where you are at.

Always keep water in that range. On the low side (5.8-5.9) since rockwool is the primary medium they are living in at this point. Will let it swing more as they grow.

Snype · Dec 28, 2013

Comparing the pictures from the past ones look good. Pay more attention to those roots though. Your dunk schedule may be off according to your root tips.

Ok, you seem ready for the next step. Go up to 1.5 mL per Liter of B1 Red. On top of that add:

0.5 mL General Hydroponic Flora Micro
0.75 mL General Hydroponic Flora Bloom

All these rates are per Liter so you are not confused by conversions.

So if you were to mix 4 Liters of solution, you would use:

6 mL B1 Red
2 mL Micro
3 mL Bloom

Fill up your rez and add in the above formula for your next dunk. Make sure the solution is at least 65 degrees F and not cold. Only put enough liquid in the rez so that your solution doesnt hit the pot but comes real close. Id set your timer for every 8 hours. The same time every day for the next 5 days, you should hand dunk into the rez 1 time for 30 seconds. So every 24 hours you will dunk. Coordinate that one dunk to one of your 3 timed floods every day. When all the plants have a little root in the solution, change the flood cycle to every 6 hours. The 6 hour schedule will quickly change to 3 hours but I need pics to know.

Your flood timer shouldnt be more than 15 minutes. Make sure it doesnt take more than 7 minutes to reach the bottom of the pot. 15 minutes is a good time if it doesnt take more than 7 minutes.

Looking good so far. Minor problems but if anything goes down hill, let me know asap. After your first few floods, you want to really observe new growth and make sure it all looks healthy and not stunted. Write down the PPM and pH. As the plants use the solution daily, add back only water and then take a PPM and pH reading. We want to see those numbers start to do down but your plants are very small and may not affect the numbers so the newest leaves are most important to observe.

sahdgrower · Dec 28, 2013

So what I don't understand about your e&f system... On my Diy system the flood level is controlled by my overflow tube, if I want more water I raise the overflow, less water I lower it. In your system as I understand it the overflow is level with the bottom of the flood table and your pump simply outpaces the draining, it fills the table faster than it drains. If this is correct then how do you control the level of the water in the flood table? For some reason this is the only part of all of your instructions I have not been able to figure out.

BTW, you rock, thanks for your time and energy!

Snype · Dec 28, 2013

sahdgrower said:
So what I don't understand about your e&f system... On my Diy system the flood level is controlled by my overflow tube, if I want more water I raise the overflow, less water I lower it. In your system as I understand it the overflow is level with the bottom of the flood table and your pump simply outpaces the draining, it fills the table faster than it drains. If this is correct then how do you control the level of the water in the flood table? For some reason this is the only part of all of your instructions I have not been able to figure out.

BTW, you rock, thanks for your time and energy!

I dont use that technique because it can leave solution on the tray for a while but do it how you like.

I control the level of solution by either putting only enough liquid in the rez that it goes just below the pot. Or I raise the pump. It only takes around a 250 gal/hour pump to accomplish this. When my pump turns off, the solution drains back into the rez in around 60 seconds so my roots arent drowning in stale solution.

sahdgrower · Dec 28, 2013

So does your pump have a float valve? Does it shut off as soon as the tray is flooded? Or do you just let it run the 15ish minutes you have set on your timer? If the latter is true wouldn't the pump be sucking alot of air once it filled the tray?

Snype · Dec 28, 2013

sahdgrower said:
So does your pump have a float valve? Does it shut off as soon as the tray is flooded? Or do you just let it run the 15ish minutes you have set on your timer? If the latter is true wouldn't the pump be sucking alot of air once it filled the tray?

The pump stays on for 15 minutes and gives lots of DO from the waterfall effect. Maybe it pulls some air but as water comes down, the pump brings it back up. The pump is like $20.

Imagine when you have bigger roots like this:

If you use those riser fittings, those roots will be sitting in stale/low DO solution. As my tray floods, i get great DO from the waterfall the whole time. When the pump stops, the solution is gone very very fast.

sahdgrower · Jan 2, 2014

update

update

Well I haven't been able to dedicate near as much time as I would like to the grow due to the holidays and the fact that I ripped my room out bombed it and rebuilt it. Took out my RDWC system which I will rebuild down the line using fittings instead of uniseals. Also cleaned up my design in my room, took everything out and lined with panda plastic. Not there yet but I will be able to make the whole room totally air sealed when I get to that level of sophistication with my growing. As such I just haven't quite dialed in the E&F system. I am currently running it manually every 8 hours or less.

Everything is looking pretty good. I think I was hoping for a little more growth but the plants look real solid. One small snag I hit is that since I set the rockwool cubes in the bottom of the net pot and have been filling in hydroton as the plants grow, I thought they would stretch alot more... so the bottom node still has not cleared the top of the net pot... so i can't fill in any more hydroton and this is allowing more light into the root zones than I would like. Do you think that is a problem?

You can see in the pictures the top 1-2" of the net pot is open. Also my roots don't seem to be wanting to extend out of the net pots. They are looking healthy and lots of em, but not dangling out like I was hoping. I have set aside time today to fix up my E&F system and hopefully this will help the root development.

sahdgrower · Jan 3, 2014

So the more I think about it the more concerned I am that I am not able to fill the hydroton to the top of the net pots. I would like to start my 4 way LST program about now. It seems though that they will not stretch at the base of the plant much more once I begin this training. Which means I will not be able to add any more hydroton. So I was thinking about floating them in water and raise the rockwool cube up to about the middle of the net pot instead of the bottom as it now sits. What say you all? Will I mess up my plants by doin this?

OldSchoolGreen · Jan 3, 2014

I'm watching this one! Seems like I'll learn a lot from watching your experience as well as reading all the advice from the veterans.
-Old School

sahdgrower · Jan 4, 2014

Wassup Old School? Thanks for droppin in. What kinda grow you got goin on?

OldSchoolGreen · Jan 4, 2014

sahdgrower said:
Wassup Old School? Thanks for droppin in. What kinda grow you got goin on?

Just smoking on some tasty, enjoying your thread. Currently I dont have anything flowering but I've been making a small GirlScoutCookie and Pineapple Thai army in my veg cab. I've got a flowering room in the making...

sahdgrower · Jan 4, 2014

OldSchool, for some reason none of the pictures of your setup show for me, only the pics of the bud!

So I rebuilt my E&F system and I still cant quite hit the balance between draining and filling speeds. Closer though, should have it with a few more modifications. Heres a couple pix (with accompanying San Fran beer added for scale?).

So everyone is looking nice but I am noticing a few trouble spots developing. Little bit of spotting on the leaf and a couple tips browned. Also a little bit of color change on some leaves. I will go to infirmary but I will post here for your ideas as well.

Seems the tip damage is limited to vx2 and 7 but a few others have the slight chlorosis starting to happen.

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