DutchMaster Reverse & Optics Switch: What PGR is in this stuff?

Anyone have any clue which PGR is in DM Reverse and Optics Switch what is causing the suppression of male flowers?

I got a gallon on Optics Switch and Im testing it out using their TRANSPORT a sticker product. I corresponded with a company rep, asked specifically if there was a PGR in the product, he didnt deny the presence of PGR... He mentioned its a trade secret. I probed a bit further, I do no like to blindly apply product to my crop without research. He told me the active ingredients would actually improve the over all vigor and rate of growth. After a lot of hemming and hawing I applied the SWITCH and TRANSPORT.

And he is correct, the day after application plants are very vigorous and buds more than doubled over night. So there was some benefit aside from any possible suppression of male flowers.

The rep suggested applying the SWITCH twice at 7 and 14, possibly 21 for a really bad plant.

Anyone have a clue whats in this stuff or DM Reverse?

Ethephon. Sold as florel by Monterey: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/271305553897?lpid=82

Good stuff, I always apply in late veg about a week before flipping. causes a lot of root development and lateral branching as well - potent stuff. Use at 30mL/gallon. Any higher can cause temporary leaf wilt (3-5 days) and possibly nitrogen overdose. Important: you must manually ph the final solution to 4.5 and use a spreader (I just use a few drops of dish soap). My spray usually comes to around 3.1ph so I need to add a considerable amount of ph-up to get it to 4.5 before using. It's very temperamental so add the ph adjuster very slowly. It takes a while to get to 4.5 but it very easy to overshoot once the buffer has been broken.

I have also used at day 25F to reverse a herm and suppress seeds in the other plants, worked great.

ganjourno have u noticed any other effects with florel applied during flower?

ganjourno said:

Ethephon. Sold as florel by Monterey: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/271305553897?lpid=82

Good stuff, I always apply in late veg about a week before flipping. causes a lot of root development and lateral branching as well - potent stuff. Use at 30mL/gallon. Any higher can cause temporary leaf wilt (3-5 days) and possibly nitrogen overdose. Important: you must manually ph the final solution to 4.5 and use a spreader (I just use a few drops of dish soap). My spray usually comes to around 3.1ph so I need to add a considerable amount of ph-up to get it to 4.5 before using. It's very temperamental so add the ph adjuster very slowly. It takes a while to get to 4.5 but it very easy to overshoot once the buffer has been broken.

I have also used at day 25F to reverse a herm and suppress seeds in the other plants, worked great.

Click to expand...

++rep

Thanks for the info!

Im in Canada, so if anyone has any thoughts on retail products here that might contain Ethephon?

Would this be a better choice it is for use on tobacco?
PREP BRAND ETHEPHON FOR COTTON AND TOBACCO
http://iaspub.epa.gov/apex/pesticides/f?p=PPLS:102:::NO::P102_REG_NUM:264-418
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...6EE7UuLhmdMU234ghUAKSZQ&bvm=bv.57155469,d.eW0

Florel is labeled for ornamental only.
Florel label and msds
Just concerned about the other - inert ingredients!!!
I recommend you contact the manufacturer Monterey directly for more information by calling 559-499-2100.


Other info on ethepon
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/dienochlor-glyphosate/ethephon-ext.html

Pomodoro said:

++rep

Thanks for the info!

Im in Canada, so if anyone has any thoughts on retail products here that might contain Ethephon?

Click to expand...

List of Brand Name Products which Contain this Chemical

Ethephon is pretty benign since it all turns to ethylene once absorbed into the plant, and Ethylene is produced naturally by all plants as they mature. Doesn't seem like there's anything else in the bottle, just ethephon and water - definitely no surfactants included since they say to add your own. In any case, latest I would suggest using is day 25 flower, and only then if you have a herm issue and need to prevent seeds.

Here are the following ways you can use it and the effects:

1. Late veg, a week before flipping. 30ml per gallon of spray, ph carefully to 4.5 (you will need to add a few capfuls of Ph up per gallon). This will encourage root growth, lateral branching, and will ensure almost 100% female plants! No joke, a male seed will flower out as a female plant if you do a few applications 7 days apart in veg.

2. Up to day 25 flowering, 30Ml gallon, pH 4.5. This is to reverse a herm and to prevent seeding out any other plants in the garden as a result. Herm prevention / reversal is pretty magical - the bananas will shrivel up and fall off by themselves. You may need two applications 5 days apart if the first doesn't quite do it. Seed prevention works well too, I sprayed a room that had been pretty well pollinated by a herm I didn't see until it was too late, and only got a few seeds once everything was finished up. This does slow bud development a bit IMO, so I suggest only using if flower if absolutely necessary.

3. You could supposedly spray 60-90Ml/gallon in mid-late flower and get a lot of the leaves to drop off, chemical defoliation basically (ethephon in stronger concentrations is used as a defoliant for cotton crops before harvest, since it causes the leaves to senesce and drop). However, I don't suggest spraying anything late in flower - this is just theoretical and I have not tried this. However, I did spray at 60ml (double strength) in early flower recently as an experiment (Day 7), and there were definitely fewer leaves and shorter plants as compared to the control plants. Actually a perfect amount of leaves with no manual defoliation needed as compared to control plants which became a jungle. In fact now that I think about it, all the times I have used ethephon in flower the resulting bud has been incredibly easy to trim - wayyy fewer leaves. So much so that after clipping the buds off the stalks when dry, I remember thinking to myself that it already looked roughly trimmed and just needed a clean-up pass. I will post some budshots from the treated and control group when this current crop is due. Will also compare effects on bud development and yield.

Things to be mindful of when applying ethephon:
1. This is a strong hormone, pay careful attention to your dosing - more is NOT better and will harm your plants.
2. You must pH the spray to 4.5 (using pH up). Do this slowly and carefully since it can be finnicky to hit the sweet spot. You also need to add a few drops of a spreader/sticker (dish soap, coco-wet, etc). Suggest spraying with lights off.
3. I usually get temporary leaf drooping for about three days after applying, then they perk back up. Just something to be aware of and not freak out about.
4. Don't overspray, since ethephon dripping into your soil/medium can harm your roots. Spray until it just starts to run off the leaves then move on.
5. Always wait at least 5 days (7 is better) before re-applying ethephon. Applying more frequently may harm your plants.

One last note, ethephon degrades rapidly once mixed into solution, and therefore you must make spray solution fresh each time and toss any leftovers since it will not keep for more than a few hours.

ganjourno,

what about plant maturity? have u witnessed any shortening of flowering times or acceleration of bud maturity (amber trichs) with ethephon?

I have a side-by-side in progress now and will report back when finished. So far, the treated buds seem to have developed faster and with more terpenes although possibly reducing yield due to maturing too early. But still some time to go so don't want to draw any conclusions until it's all done. Control plants and treated plants are also 10 days apart so I can't directly compare them at the moment.

Pomodoro said:

++rep

Thanks for the info!

Im in Canada, so if anyone has any thoughts on retail products here that might contain Ethephon?

Click to expand...

http://www.cropscience.bayer.ca/en/Products/Other/Ethrel.aspx?province=on
For use on tobacco and more!!!

ganjourno said:

I have a side-by-side in progress now and will report back when finished. So far, the treated buds seem to have developed faster and with more terpenes although possibly reducing yield due to maturing too early. But still some time to go so don't want to draw any conclusions until it's all done. Control plants and treated plants are also 10 days apart so I can't directly compare them at the moment.

Click to expand...

Very interested!!

tried reverse on a siperb specimen of sweet skunk x chinese landrace.....
Not happy, didn t work one bit. got in a bit of a convo with the guy from dm but you could see there was nothing constructive comming out of there. all i can say, these plants where the size of gallon jugs by finish......full of seeds.
never undestood. the phenotype completely changed, just like that, and heavily hermied.
the original mother was exquisite and exhibited non of these traits...
just saying...

So I used the Switch product 2x around day 10 and day 20. I observed male flowers litererally die off. A previously annoying hermi plant produced so little hermi pollen that seeds were barely noticed at all. and the pepper seed issue was dealt with as well. Next time I will get this stuff a bit earlier an apply on 7, 14 and possibly 21. It works no doubt. I also noticed that the next day or two after application the buds basically doubled in size. The plants seemed to finish a bit faster, ate more food, and yellowed easier. Seems like a plant stimulant.

been using reverse for many years,back when it was named "feminizer",,i always usually run multi strain from fem seed,,,plant stimulant? hard to say but it always does what its supposed to do,,thats my experience,,others think its snake oil,,each to there own,,,s2

I used switch day 1 of 12/12 and had buds at day 7, awesome stuff, stops stretch too