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Native Clay in the mix.

VerdantGreen

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Hi guys, ive seen a few people expressing interest in trying to incorporate native clay from their area into a ROLS mix.

Probably the simplest way to add clay to your soil mix would be to add some good quality loam topsoil which will generally have a proportion of clay already in it. In the Uk the 'holy grail' of topsoils is called "kettering loam" which has about 20% clay content. i add this to my soil mix at 20%, giving me a fairly ideal 4% clay content in the mix overall. (afaik 4-5% clay is ideal)

My (regular) garden is on clay which has been worked over the years into some nice soil and there are a few tricks that folk use to break up clay and make a nice tilth. these methods could also be utilized to process clay for your soil mix.
The main method used is to dig the soil over in the autumn and leave the big clods of clay on the surface - over the course of the winter the freezing/thawimg action of the frosts will fracture the big lumps of clay and in the spring they can be easily forked over and broken down into a nice crumb structure and then can be easily mixed up with additions of compost etc.
I recently tried to mimic this natural process with a freezer :biggrin:
i got a big clod of my native clay - this was from a hole dug for a fence post. (in my area the top layers of clay are yellow and underneath that is grey)
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i then sprayed it with a little water and put it in the freezer. over a few days i froze it and thawed it 3 or 4 times and after that it looked like this
picture.php


by this time the clay was damp but not wet, and sure enough i could gently crumble it into a reasonably fine tilth that would be easy to add to a soil mix, perhaps after screening any larger bits out. the volume of it increased dramatically too and my advice would be to use the volume of the tilth to add to your mix at 4-5%
picture.php


it is also worth noting that the clay is very water retentive so you may need to add extra drainage/aeration amendments to compensate. my mix uses 30% perlite/calcined clay.

another technique for breaking down native clay is to use gypsum - although this process can take 2-3 years to make a big difference it really does work. the soil can be topdressed with powdered gypsum at the rate of 8oz per square yard annually (athough it is best to do 2oz every 3 months) the gypsum causes the clay particles to flocculate (stick together) and this gives a nice tilth/crumb structure that will drain much better and be workable.
Those that use gypsum in their ROLs mix will probably find that it further helps to break down the clay crumbs.

VG :tiphat:
 
G

greenmatter

i can already hear mrs green saying "do we really need dirt in the freezer too?"

yes dear as a matter of fact we do!
 
V

vonforne

Great thread VG!! I will have clay in the freezer tomorrow. I have been adding Bentonite to my soil but was wanting to add some more native soil as I am in a new area and the top soil has a high clay content.

V
 

Scrappy4

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Nice thread VG. Twenty some years ago and when I lived in a different area I had a pond dug, and then had about five acres of clay. When it rained it got soft but it was mostly hard as a parking lot. I contacted my county ag extension service and, like mentioned in VG's post, gypsum was recommended but I could not afford it, I took the extension service's second recommendation and had a couple big rounds bales of alfalfa disked in the clay. It took a while but I was eventually able to get grass growing and build a top soil but it did work and was fairly cheap on a large scale. That is all.....Peace out....:ying:
 

VerdantGreen

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thanks guys, if your clay soil is already worked and a half decent crumbly soil then i would advise the topsoil route. the freezer is for those squidgy lumps that you could throw pots with.

RD i'm no expert on worms but they may not be interested in the unamended clay due to the fact it has no real organic matter content in that form. but please let us know if you try it - this is an experimental method anyway when it comes to indoor soil.

greenmatter - lol i got a similar response. told the misses that it was in the name of science - which didnt really wash, but she is very tolerant im a lucky guy.

VG
 

W89

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Bud, great thread, the soil thats on the farmers field looks really loamy but obvously i dunno if any chems have been used on the field, he grows corn on it and spreads manure, i will get a picture later.. but do you think it ill be any good? the soil where i'm gonna do my guerilla grow is real spongy foresty smelling humic matter with lots of different partical sizes and rock dusts I'm gonna add some of this to my mix.. i will try digging a bit deeper and I reckon il get clay.. East Anglia is got some clay but mostly chalky soil
 

Greenheart

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RD i'm no expert on worms but they may not be interested in the unamended clay due to the fact it has no real organic matter content in that form. but please let us know if you try it - this is an experimental method anyway when it comes to indoor soil.
Maybe if you knead the fruit pulp into it like making a dough?
 
Kinda funny. My girlfriend is a potter and she's out this morning gathering clay w/ her boss. I'm hoping she will be able to tell me what kind it is. She said they will be able to make actual pots out of it or use it as a clay slip.

So to back things up a bit. Why are we adding clay to our soils?

Is it simply to increase CEC and provide trace elements? Got me thinking about the jar test I did w/ some material we were gonna run through a sluice box. It looked to be about 10%clay 20%silt and 70%sand. It's completely void of any OM. It's amazing to me that the structure of this soil falls into the sandy/loam category. Umm...sorry forgot where I was going w/ this.
 

VerdantGreen

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hey RD, you are right about CEC, the clay particles have negative charge and hold onto nutrients very well, particularly potassium, calcium and magnesium and trace elements

also very good at holding plant available water.

VG
 
My girlfriend's boss told her the type of clay was for earthenware or terracotta...does that mean anything at all to you VG? I did find out they go to another spot because the clay there has a high bentonite content>>> ca-ching!
 
G

greenmatter

My girlfriend's boss told her the type of clay was for earthenware or terracotta...does that mean anything at all to you VG? I did find out they go to another spot because the clay there has a high bentonite content>>> ca-ching!

could you ask how they identify bentonite?

we have enough of the stuff in colorado breaking foundations and heaving driveways that i know it couldn't be that hard to find if i actually knew what to look for
 

VerdantGreen

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My girlfriend's boss told her the type of clay was for earthenware or terracotta...does that mean anything at all to you VG? I did find out they go to another spot because the clay there has a high bentonite content>>> ca-ching!

i think any yellow or red clay would be the kind of thing you are talking about. the clay in my area is yellow/brown and if you dig down further you get to a grey clay which is impervious to water. the yellow and red clays are what you want i think as they are the weathered versions of the grey.

also if the topsoil is fertile then the native clay should have the properties we are looking for.

VG
 

Coba

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ingeniously brilliant sir VerdantGreen.

your threads are the blueprint of great grower's technique.
 

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