Signs of Underfeeding?

Kronikal_kiwi · May 11, 2012

Hey everyone

I appologise in advance, but I tried to search underfeeding and came up with nothing.

So my question is what signs should I be looking for with underfeeding?

I have just dramatically dropped the level Im feeding my girls to 1.4-1.6 each. I used to feed around 2.0 sometimes as high as 2.2 but people told me I was over feeding and at one stage when I flush the run off was 3.5!!!!! So Ive dropped the EC and there isn't an issue yet but I want to know what to look out for.

Any help is much appreciated!

SeaMaiden · May 11, 2012

That's really difficult, because deficiencies can look just like toxicities. However, I'll post up some charts that I like to use when I need to make an initial Dx.

Guest 279031 · May 11, 2012

SeaMaiden said:
That's really difficult, because deficiencies can look just like toxicities. However, I'll post up some charts that I like to use when I need to make an initial Dx.

Those charts are extremely helpful to me right now. Thanks

someotherguy · May 11, 2012

ChrisQ said:
Those charts are extremely helpful to me right now. Thanks

if that's true then why not tag her post as helpful? ...better yet, why not give her +rep for the help she offered?

...just sayin'

FoCo(No.Co) · May 11, 2012

LOOK AT THE PETIOLES!

LOOK AT THE PETIOLES!

The color of the leaf stem(petiole) is the first indicator that your plants are hungry or something is not dialed as far as nutrients.

When the leaf stems are green, then your plant is happy. Here is a dialed in plant in veg, notice the green leaf stems-

When the plants arent getting enough to eat, the leaf stems start to turn pink/red/purple

This plant is just starting to get hungry, notice the pink leaf stem in the top rightmost fan leaf-

If the stems are really purpley, something is wrong or your plants are getting pretty hungry. Here is the same plant as the last picture, you can see that it was underfed in late veg/early bloom and the leaf stems got pretty red-

*note, this is a general rule that holds true most of the time, however some strains(particularly purples) will show dark colored leaf stems because of genetics not underfeeding.

Bush Dr · May 11, 2012

Easy to remember rule with coco,

bleaching inner leaves, overfed,

bleaching outer leaves, underfeeding

stihgnobevoli · May 11, 2012

speaking from experience, leaf stems mean fuck all, its all about the leaves. some plants are purple their whole lives from seed.

FoCo(No.Co) · May 11, 2012

stihgnobevoli said:
some plants are purple their whole lives from seed.

I find it hard to believe that you have a room so perfect that every single plant you grow from seed is dialed in from the start. How can you assume that the purple stems are because of genetics and not underfeeding if you are growing from seed? You only get to start a plant from seed once.

Maybe the plants that you grow that show purple stems are the ones that need more nutes? Had you considered that possibility, dude?

FoCo(No.Co) · May 11, 2012

Also, I want to be clear:

Petiole color is commonly used gauge of nutrient problems in many species, not just cannabis.

This is horticultural fact I am spitting, not just personal experience.

cyat · May 11, 2012

what foco said!

red/purple petiole ( leaf stems ) usually mean underfeeding esp. if they come with pale green leaves and poor growth.

can b overfed and look like that from lockout but the leaves will also curl, claw and or have burned tip/ leaves

as foco said all green ftw, that said some plants have purple/red petioles naturally

stihgnobevoli · May 11, 2012

FoCo(No.Co) said:
I find it hard to believe that you have a room so perfect that every single plant you grow from seed is dialed in from the start. How can you assume that the purple stems are because of genetics and not underfeeding if you are growing from seed? You only get to start a plant from seed once.

Maybe the plants that you grow that show purple stems are the ones that need more nutes? Had you considered that possibility, dude?

first of all i never said all plants and i never said any of that other shit you are implying either. but i will tell you how i know that purple stems doesn't necessarily indicate any issue is because i have grown over 100 plants from seed over the years and purple stems has never been any indication of anything. purple stems are about the vaguest signs of anything from deficiencies to purple buds that there could possibly be. the leaves are what you should be looking at.

SeaMaiden · May 12, 2012

stihgnobevoli said:
speaking from experience, leaf stems mean fuck all, its all about the leaves. some plants are purple their whole lives from seed.

Some are, but plenty will indicate an issue with P when the petioles turn purple/red. This is speaking from experience.

FoCo(No.Co) said:
Also, I want to be clear:

Petiole color is commonly used gauge of nutrient problems in many species, not just cannabis.

This is horticultural fact I am spitting, not just personal experience.

It is indeed! In fact, I've solved more problems looking to the horticultural/agricultural world than the cannabis world.

serpent · May 14, 2012

makes sense the cannabis world is merely a subset of the horticultural world, just one despised by most

stihgnobevoli · May 14, 2012

i dunno what websites you guys are looking on but typing any element and the word deficiency and plants will 99% i guarantee without even going through the list of elements return a picture of a LEAF and or a link to a website most likely ending in .edu the leaves are what they look at most not stems unless its a plant that doesn't produce much leaf. go check, ill wait.

Desert Hydro · May 14, 2012

im only feeding 850 ppm after all my additives with coco and blumats and my bitches are healthy as can be. fans reach for the light. the growth is beautiful and lush. as someone on here once said, you'd be surprised how well you can do when you stop feeding like an asshole. i would much rather lose out on a few grams and have my end product taste like its supposed to than force feed them to obesity lol. i guess its all just strain dependant. some are fatasses when it comes to feeding, i just happened to get lucky because all four of my strains are loving low nutes on blumats in coco. my EandF maxi KISS grow on the other hand is at 1400ppm @7grams maxi per gallon and 1ml drip clean per gallon. i think this is a bit high but that is what everyone says to run with maxi and since its my first go with it i will listen and tune the recipe later.

FoCo(No.Co) · May 15, 2012

stihgnobevoli said:
go check, ill wait.

hortipm.tamu.edu-

"Phosphorus(P) - Restricted and spindly growth similar to that of nitrogen deficiency. Leaf color is usually dull dark green to bluish green with purpling of petioles and the veins on underside of younger leaves. Younger leaves may be yellowish green with purple veins with N deficiency and darker green with P deficiency. Otherwise, N and P deficiencies are very much alike."

Ed Rosenthal-

"Nitrogen. N is the most common deficiency of cannabis indoors or out. The first sign is a gradual, uniform yellowing of the large, lower leaves. Once the leaf yellows, necrotic tips and areas form as the leaves dry to a gold or rust color. Symptoms that accompany N deficiency include red stems and petioles, smaller leaves, slow growth, and a smaller, sparse profile."

stihgnobevoli · May 15, 2012

the part where you skipped over the first signs IN THE LEAVES and went to stems and petioles... classic denial. not talkin bout a river that runs through egypt either.

Crusader Rabbit · May 15, 2012

stihgnobevoli said:
the part where you skipped over the first signs IN THE LEAVES and went to stems and petioles... classic denial. not talkin bout a river that runs through egypt either.

So are we going to derail this thread also over some minor quibble?

stihgnobevoli · May 15, 2012

im not derailing shit, petioles and stems have always been secondary and the leaves primary. im just trying to help the guy with the problem by steering him away from false info. if you look at almost any deficiency it comes along with purple stems and petioles. how can purple stems and petioles be any sort of indication when it comes with almost EVERY deficiency? obviously that should not be your first indication but rather the leaves.

that's all im trying to say. if you wanna chase purple stems and phantom deficiencies, be my guest. im just trying to help out by letting you know you should look at the leaves first not the stems. be there already, done it, got the t-shirt and the dvd.

FoCo(No.Co) · May 15, 2012

stihgnobevoli said:
the part where you skipped over the first signs IN THE LEAVES and went to stems and petioles... classic denial. not talkin bout a river that runs through egypt either.

stihgnobevoli said:
im not derailing shit, petioles and stems have always been secondary and the leaves primary.

The petioles are part of the leaves. So when you say 'look at the leaves, not the petioles' you are contradicting yourself. Go look at a leaf diagram in a biology 101 book, mr. smarty pants.

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