Water cure: terpenes are not water soluble so what's going on?

de145 · Feb 16, 2012

I've water cured before and stuck like glue to room temp water and noted the famous loss of smell and taste that comes with it, I know it works. I just don't know how it works because terpenes are supposed to be water insoluble.

Where are the terpenes going?

It's not into the water if they are not water soluble. They aren't evaporating since the water is room temp and a the majority of them don't evaporate in jars at room temp either obviously.

Is it some kind of reaction degrading them or is the plant still alive enough to be consuming them in some way or...?

Any theories?

wilbur · Feb 16, 2012

there is some evidence that SOMETHING in heads is water soluble. look here:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=230790

softyellowlight · Feb 16, 2012

If the weed is not decarboxylated, instead of having only delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol you have tetrahydrocannabinolic acid. This is a water soluble molecule, so you should definitely lose some of the good stuff in a water cure unless it's already cured weed... i.e. don't do it with fresh weed or I'd expect the potency to suffer greatly.

As far as the terpenes are concerned, I don't think they need to actually be soluble with the water to disperse into/through the water. These are very volatile compounds, which is why you can smell them so well -- they want to evaporate, even before you hit the temperature of vaporizing cannabinoids, even at room temperature.

de145 · Feb 29, 2012

softyellowlight said:
If the weed is not decarboxylated, instead of having only delta9-tetrahydrocannabinol you have tetrahydrocannabinolic acid. This is a water soluble molecule, so you should definitely lose some of the good stuff in a water cure unless it's already cured weed... i.e. don't do it with fresh weed or I'd expect the potency to suffer greatly.

As far as the terpenes are concerned, I don't think they need to actually be soluble with the water to disperse into/through the water. These are very volatile compounds, which is why you can smell them so well -- they want to evaporate, even before you hit the temperature of vaporizing cannabinoids, even at room temperature.

I can assure you that there is no decrease in potency when doing this with freshly harvested weed, quite the opposite, the same volume smoked is very noticeably stronger than a bud off the same branch level of the same plant cured traditionally.

If thca is water soluble then it's locked into the trichomes or something.

The terpenes that evaporate normally at room temperature I can understand somehow diffusing in water at room temperature but the majority don't so I'm still not sure what's going on here.

supermanlives · Mar 1, 2012

i never liked water curing

softyellowlight · Mar 1, 2012

de145 said:
I can assure you that there is no decrease in potency when doing this with freshly harvested weed, quite the opposite, the same volume smoked is very noticeably stronger than a bud off the same branch level of the same plant cured traditionally.

If thca is water soluble then it's locked into the trichomes or something.

The terpenes that evaporate normally at room temperature I can understand somehow diffusing in water at room temperature but the majority don't so I'm still not sure what's going on here.

I didn't say there was a decrease in potency. Potency has myriad factors relating to the complex interactions of cannabinoids (in both regular and acid form), terpenoids and the body/brain. There is no objective measure of potency and you can take in less of a combination of compounds and still have a more potent effect if the particular combination engenders that.

atarijedi · Mar 1, 2012

softyellowlight said:
I didn't say there was a decrease in potency. Potency has myriad factors relating to the complex interactions of cannabinoids (in both regular and acid form), terpenoids and the body/brain. There is no objective measure of potency and you can take in less of a combination of compounds and still have a more potent effect if the particular combination engenders that.

I think you are confusing strength with potency. Potency is a function of strength and mass. So if you have 2 buds from the same plant with the same strength, but water cure one and air cure the other, the water cured one will have a higher potency because it has less mass but the same strength as the air cured one.

thinkin · Mar 1, 2012

read and experimented

Terpenes are oil based (from what ive read)
Oils dont mix with water. Oil usually floats on water
Oils will be pulled out the buds during a water cure.

GL

DirtyCarpet · Mar 2, 2012

To thinkin, I must ask: if oil does not mix with water, how could oils be "pulled out the buds during a water cure"? I mean, if that was true, WHY would anyone extract with alch. or butane? IF oils would be pulled out during a water cure, it seems that the water would then be active and the buds would then be "empty", as it were. This, to me, does not seem to be true. Please correct me if I am mistaken. Peace.

Corpsey · Mar 2, 2012

and what about bubble hash (ice water)

softyellowlight · Mar 2, 2012

atarijedi said:
I think you are confusing strength with potency. Potency is a function of strength and mass. So if you have 2 buds from the same plant with the same strength, but water cure one and air cure the other, the water cured one will have a higher potency because it has less mass but the same strength as the air cured one.

Now that you say that, I think I'd really just rather stick to unambiguous terms, like overall resin content, mental effect, and the height of the "ceiling" (last plateau you can get to by vaping/smoking any reasonable amount.)

DirtyCarpet said:
To thinkin, I must ask: if oil does not mix with water, how could oils be "pulled out the buds during a water cure"? I mean, if that was true, WHY would anyone extract with alch. or butane? IF oils would be pulled out during a water cure, it seems that the water would then be active and the buds would then be "empty", as it were. This, to me, does not seem to be true. Please correct me if I am mistaken. Peace.

Some of it was removed. THC and other decarboxylated cannabinoids are SLIGHTLY water soluble. Find the research paper on this board concerning "weed tea" for more information.

DirtyCarpet · Mar 2, 2012

Thank you, SYL....I'll check it out!

thinkin · Mar 10, 2012

sometimes nothing is better than something

sometimes nothing is better than something

DirtyCarpet said:
To thinkin, I must ask: if oil does not mix with water, how could oils be "pulled out the buds during a water cure"? I mean, if that was true, WHY would anyone extract with alch. or butane? IF oils would be pulled out during a water cure, it seems that the water would then be active and the buds would then be "empty", as it were. This, to me, does not seem to be true. Please correct me if I am mistaken. Peace.

Mistaken?? you need to forget everything you have "learned"

super basics...

Definition of OIL.... from wiki
An oil is any substance that is liquid at ambient temperatures and does not mix with water but may mix with other oils and organic solvents. This general definition includes vegetable oils, volatile essential oils, petrochemical oils, and synthetic oils.

Things you need to look up...
Is THC an oil?
What are alcohol or butane extracts? Why do people choose different methods?
Terpenes go look it up.
To even suggest that THC is water soluble during a water cure shows how little you know.

Do you even know what the purpose of a water cure is?
" how could oils be "pulled out the buds during a water cure" " seriously?? thats basic chemistry

Annoys that you dont have a clue and even bothered to research even the most basic information.

high life 45 · Mar 10, 2012

I have heard that terpenes are water soluble, BHO masters have been saying this is what makes bho superior to bubble. I love me some bubble but it never quite compares to the top quality wax.

DirtyCarpet · Mar 11, 2012

Sorry thinkin

Sorry thinkin

I never meant to annoy you with a simple question. I have also "learned" that thc can have a calming effect; you should try it sometime. Thank you for taking the time to look down upon me, perched on the heights of your accumulated knowledge, and answer my question. You deserve a medal, truthfully.

LuciferianSahdu · Mar 11, 2012

I finally experienced a water cure last week. i submersed some buds in water that was changed daily for 6 days, after 4 days i didnt see much more color coming out in the water, long of the short of it is that i wasnt impressed at all, buds looked fine after day 6 and dried but the taste wasnt improved via a smoother product, the bud was flushed quite well to begin with but ime the water cure is a waste of time and i wont be doing it again.

mad librettist · Mar 11, 2012

atarijedi said:
I think you are confusing strength with potency. Potency is a function of strength and mass. So if you have 2 buds from the same plant with the same strength, but water cure one and air cure the other, the water cured one will have a higher potency because it has less mass but the same strength as the air cured one.

I think you are the confused one!

potency should be measured relative to the DRY mass of the sample. Water content should be excluded since it is so variable.

If we were measuring the nutritional value of a vegetable, we would look at it minus the water content.

a measure of potency that changes depending on water content would be pretty useless.

seventhchild · Mar 11, 2012

DirtyCarpet said:
I never meant to annoy you with a simple question. I have also "learned" that thc can have a calming effect; you should try it sometime. Thank you for taking the time to look down upon me, perched on the heights of your accumulated knowledge, and answer my question. You deserve a medal, truthfully.

i like the way you write DC :tiphat:

how could oils be "pulled out the buds during a water cure"?hers a simple experiment...dip a spoon[anything actually] into some vegetable oil, shake off the excess,and dip into a cup of water...you'll see that most of the oil stays on the spoon but a little bit floats to the top... same principle applies to terpenes, they do not want to sink and are pushed to the top of the water...

DirtyCarpet · Mar 12, 2012

zoic · Apr 8, 2017

Missing links

Missing links

Well this has been a somewhat interesting thread. Not the part where everybody argues and tries to look smarter, but some of the info was interesting. Since no one posted any links to back up their claims I decided to do some Google searching. Here is what I found.

More people arguing about it.

If one thing was clear in all of the research I did, it is that water causes a loss in terpenes in the final product. Aroma and flavour are integral parts of the whole experience and I am not ready to give them up. Although I have smoked bubble hash of varying high potency, I did not find the high lasted as long, and it was devoid of taste and smell.

BLECH!

Water cure: terpenes are not water soluble so what's going on?

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