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Olivia's Cloning Gel vs Miracle Grow Fast Root

toastfighter2

toastfighter2

Active member
(For those who don't want to read a lot of fluff, skip to the Break Down)
For the past 6 to 7 years, I have had relatively decent success using cloning into rockwool starter cubes using the MG Fast Root, which has its perks. It is super cheap(roughly $6.75), easy to get(walmart, and nearly every hardware store around me stocks it), it last goes pretty far(I have only bought two bottles since I have started using it, and to be fair, that was only because I miss placed one of them), and it just plain works on top of everything.
Recently I was talking to another grower, who has a few more years and crops under his belt, recommended that I give Olivia's cloning Gel a try. He swears by it and it is all he ever uses, but I am of the thinking if it isn't broke, don't fix it. I did get a little curious, and did some reading up on it, and only heard good things, so I figured wth, its only $14, and if it works better, it is worth it, so I grabbed a small bottle when I was getting some new starter cubes.
That is this little project got started. Now for the details:
I started eight cubes soaking in ph'ed water yesterday, and today I pulled them out and drained the just like I do every time I start cuttings. Then I split them down the middle, so there is two strips of 4, and placed them in a freshly washed and rinsed tray. I proceeded to take 8 new cuttings(all from the same plant and all roughly the same size)and put them in a cup of clean water as I was cutting them(as per usual). I placed a stake in each strip indicating which one was to be the MG Fast Root, and the same for the Olivia's Cloning Gel. Alternating between the Olivia's and the MG(as not to let one set soak in water longer than the other), I placed each cutting in it prospective strip until all 8 were in their new homes. I placed the whole tray under my shop light, and on the heat mat where I usually place my fresh cuts. Now to wait for the magic to happen.
Break down-
10/21-Soak starter cubes
10/22-Start two sets of cuts, 4 in Miracle Grow Fast Root, and 4 in Olivia's Cloning Gel. Labeled both sets.
Take picture of whole thing when done and wait for the results.
 
Landmark

Landmark

Member
Have you given clonex a try? I've used woods and olivia's, they all work really just seem to get best results with the clonex



5 days later they look like this in 3.5 gallon Hempy's
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Active member
Veteran
Landmark said:
Have you given clonex a try? I've used woods and olivia's, they all work really just seem to get best results with the clonex



5 days later they look like this in 3.5 gallon Hempy's
Click to expand...



Landmark.... i love the size of your clones....


any chance of describing how you clone monsters like that....


I would think a dome would be necessary.....


Anyways.... how do you do it?????
 
K

KSP

Burnt Rope said:
Landmark.... i love the size of your clones....


any chance of describing how you clone monsters like that....


I would think a dome would be necessary.....


Anyways.... how do you do it?????
Click to expand...

:yeahthats Would love to hear also
 
Landmark

Landmark

Member
Burnt Rope said:
Landmark.... i love the size of your clones....


any chance of describing how you clone monsters like that....


I would think a dome would be necessary.....


Anyways.... how do you do it?????
Click to expand...


BIG MOMS!



then I use a small cylinder that I fill with Clonex Gel, I then place the cylinder inside a small cup which keeps it from tipping over when I place larger clones in, I do 5 at a time, each on looks like this...


I leave it in the gel for 4-5minutes, I poke a hole 3/4 of the way in the rapid rooter close to the edge of the cube top to bottom with a chop stick, then clone goes in cube. I DO NOT trim any of the leaves

Now this is the cloner I built, I suspend the rapid rooter so that it sits in @1/8th to 1/4" aerated 78-80degree water for the first week, I do not top up the resevoir, as the rooters start drying the plants send roots, I do keep a dome on for the first week and air it out every 3 days or so. After the first week dome comes off completely
temps get backed down to @75 and I keep a 1/2" water line from bottom of cube. water is Maxibloom 500-600ppm, ph 6.0.


LOTS of aeration!
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Active member
Veteran
Great thanks....


I just did my first batch of 12 inch clones with success....

Im not planning on looking back....

I did in fact remove the fan leaves....


but used no aeration....


They were done in vermiculite with no aeration.....


Much the same as yours ....mine sat in water about an inch deep and the water wicked into the medium....


I found that after 2 days or so the stems swelled and allowed the stems to pull more water....


Im in the process of making moms.... whereas before I just used material from plants in veg....


to take large clones moms are more necessary.....



I needed to change my methods due do my grows being medical and less plants....


IMO you should do a thread on large clones.....


I think there is a huge value and no threads to that end....


One bit of reservation on your method....


Im not sure you get much from the aeration....


response?????


Ill be doing some further experiments myself in the coming weeks.....
 
K

KSP

Thank you Landmark for taking the time to answer and show your clone set-up, I appreciate it.

Also thanks to you BurntRope for sharing your method.

I like this route but will have to raise some bigger mothers :D
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Active member
Veteran
KSP....


here is the thingy I used.... one cell from an ice tube maker.....

my clones were 12" above the medium....


https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=42847&page=48


anyway Ill be doing some further experiments on just how large you can make clones....



IMO the size that landmark is doing could be surpassed by removing the fan leaves.....


Im unsure about if a cutting with more leaves do better than larger cutting with leaves stripped....


Id love to see a thread devoted to techniques of making big assed clones....
 
K

KSP

Thanks Burnt Rope. I need to finish all of that thread, I've done a lot of parsing. Maybe you and Landmark could start a large clone thread. I have no doubt there will be a lot of interest and good input from people.
 
Landmark

Landmark

Member
Burnt Rope said:
Great thanks....


I just did my first batch of 12 inch clones with success....

Im not planning on looking back....

I did in fact remove the fan leaves....


but used no aeration....


They were done in vermiculite with no aeration.....


Much the same as yours ....mine sat in water about an inch deep and the water wicked into the medium....


I found that after 2 days or so the stems swelled and allowed the stems to pull more water....


Im in the process of making moms.... whereas before I just used material from plants in veg....


to take large clones moms are more necessary.....



I needed to change my methods due do my grows being medical and less plants....


IMO you should do a thread on large clones.....


I think there is a huge value and no threads to that end....


One bit of reservation on your method....


Im not sure you get much from the aeration....


response?????


Ill be doing some further experiments myself in the coming weeks.....
Click to expand...

I am a proponent of big clones for those desiring less plant count or for speeding up veg IME it can take a week, and in some cases 2 off veg times.

I have used many media's for cloning such as vermiculite, perlite, verm/perlite mixture, hydrotron, sand. For me I found this system to be the most productive, consistent, and importantly, one step closer to having to purchase no media. When I was using a media, besides water, I had to be careful how deep I was setting each clone, having them stay stable etc etc with cutting out the bottom's of a cloning tray I know exactly where the rooters are sitting and they stay stable, I used to do many many clones at one time so consistency was key. As was posted ice cube trays work well also

Aeration is for peace of mind, along with .33ml bleach per gallon. I have let clones go 3 1/2 weeks in this system, what I noticed was the roots took hold of the air stones and wrapped themselves all around them sooo I figure they like it, necessary, maybe not. There is about 13 gallons in the cloner I posted pictures of, which is about 4-5" of water.

As far as a thread, I'm not able to do one for awhile, as I have posted elsewhere I had a virus attack so everything is coming down, being sanitized, and am starting from scratch. I have a new system in mind so when that gets going I'll post progress on that. I know there are others here that have some great cloning systems I'd enjoy seeing. We all know you can stick a clone in water, change the water out every couple days and get roots sooo for me its just how much can I augment that process

You can take huge clones, I have taken ones much larger than the pictures posted just as an experiment, I packed rapid rooter's that I tore up in a 16 ounce plastic cup. I soaked the stem for 15 minutes in clonex inserted it into the cup poured a little clonex all around the stem, week and 1/2 later had a massive clone. ALL fan leaves on. I didnt think it would root, it did. Those kind of clones are difficult to do on a bi weekly basis as your using most of the donor plant up and I dont have enough moms to support that kind of cloning. Have fun with it though, great learning experience

B.R. really looking forward to you posting results of some of your experiments, what are you working on?

KSP as always, blessings :tiphat:
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Active member
Veteran
Landmark said:
I am a proponent of big clones for those desiring less plant count or for speeding up veg IME it can take a week, and in some cases 2 off veg times.

I have used many media's for cloning such as vermiculite, perlite, verm/perlite mixture, hydrotron, sand. For me I found this system to be the most productive, consistent, and importantly, one step closer to having to purchase no media. When I was using a media, besides water, I had to be careful how deep I was setting each clone, having them stay stable etc etc with cutting out the bottom's of a cloning tray I know exactly where the rooters are sitting and they stay stable, I used to do many many clones at one time so consistency was key. As was posted ice cube trays work well also

Aeration is for peace of mind, along with .33ml bleach per gallon. I have let clones go 3 1/2 weeks in this system, what I noticed was the roots took hold of the air stones and wrapped themselves all around them sooo I figure they like it, necessary, maybe not. There is about 13 gallons in the cloner I posted pictures of, which is about 4-5" of water.

As far as a thread, I'm not able to do one for awhile, as I have posted elsewhere I had a virus attack so everything is coming down, being sanitized, and am starting from scratch. I have a new system in mind so when that gets going I'll post progress on that. I know there are others here that have some great cloning systems I'd enjoy seeing. We all know you can stick a clone in water, change the water out every couple days and get roots sooo for me its just how much can I augment that process

You can take huge clones, I have taken ones much larger than the pictures posted just as an experiment, I packed rapid rooter's that I tore up in a 16 ounce plastic cup. I soaked the stem for 15 minutes in clonex inserted it into the cup poured a little clonex all around the stem, week and 1/2 later had a massive clone. ALL fan leaves on. I didnt think it would root, it did. Those kind of clones are difficult to do on a bi weekly basis as your using most of the donor plant up and I dont have enough moms to support that kind of cloning. Have fun with it though, great learning experience

B.R. really looking forward to you posting results of some of your experiments, what are you working on?

KSP as always, blessings :tiphat:
Click to expand...



I tend to think this is very modest to a point its vastly understated imo...

I am a proponent of big clones for those desiring less plant count or for speeding up veg IME it can take a week, and in some cases 2 off veg times.


A week or two???? way more....


I tend to think you are confusing what your aeration is for....


me once the clones have roots they go into their normal medium....


Your aeation may not be so important for striking roots but is likely more necesary for leaving them in your contraption for as long as you do....

Unfortunately Im really some weeks away from doing much as far as experiments....


But I do plan to train my mother plants in a scrog format.....

This done by training the mother plant initially horizontally....


Ive only done a handful of large clones....


I find they root just as well as the smaller ones.....


provided they dont wilt significantly....


an experiment I did showed a wilty clone takes much longer to root.....



I think a big clones thread is a huge need.... with different perspectives.....


I expect its going to take my about 2 or 3 months to get clear and ready to work on this consistantly.....



But my interest is definitely peaked....


Another experiment Im planning is to transplant the clones after 7 days....


This is past their wilty period and can be transplanted to final medium even if they dont have lots of roots..... or any at all for that matter....

The transplant medium should be moist enough so the clones dont really see much difference at all...


I take the approach of transplanting early on in the cloning process not after lots of roots have grown.....
 
Landmark

Landmark

Member
Burnt Rope said:
I tend to think this is very modest to a point its vastly understated imo...

I am a proponent of big clones for those desiring less plant count or for speeding up veg IME it can take a week, and in some cases 2 off veg times.


A week or two???? way more....


I tend to think you are confusing what your aeration is for....


me once the clones have roots they go into their normal medium....


Your aeation may not be so important for striking roots but is likely more necesary for leaving them in your contraption for as long as you do....

Unfortunately Im really some weeks away from doing much as far as experiments....


But I do plan to train my mother plants in a scrog format.....

This done by training the mother plant initially horizontally....


Ive only done a handful of large clones....


I find they root just as well as the smaller ones.....


provided they dont wilt significantly....


an experiment I did showed a wilty clone takes much longer to root.....



I think a big clones thread is a huge need.... with different perspectives.....


I expect its going to take my about 2 or 3 months to get clear and ready to work on this consistantly.....



But my interest is definitely peaked....


Another experiment Im planning is to transplant the clones after 7 days....


This is past their wilty period and can be transplanted to final medium even if they dont have lots of roots..... or any at all for that matter....

The transplant medium should be moist enough so the clones dont really see much difference at all...


I take the approach of transplanting early on in the cloning process not after lots of roots have grown.....
Click to expand...

I like to be conservative with estimates about how much time is saved with larger clones, I'd rather let people discover it for themselves, know what I mean? That way there isn't a huge expectation for whats possible. They get to have the experience of "holy sh-eye-t!"

I wanted to mention I use a large heating mat under my reservoir to keep the water temp at @80 degrees, this is very important for the first week as it creates a very humid environment for the clones to be in as the room temp is never above 75, dew builds up on the inside of the dome so the clones NEVER wilt... I found the same thing as B.R. wilted clones take longer to root.

Just so I'm straight about it, I'm not confused about why I am aerating, I don't want anaerobic conditions to set in at any point in the cloning process, I have never gotten as good a result, as fast, without aeration and lots of it. Roots start appearing at day 6-8. I pull the clones, normally, when I see about 3-4" of root growth, that happens in about 10-14 days, strain dependent.

I look forward to reading the results of your experiments, some pics too would be nice. Would enjoy presenting a thread at that time with you on the benefits of larger clones and maybe a pictorial on different ways to accomplish it...
Much Respect and blessings:tiphat:

I wanted to add you can SCROG a MOM then take one of the SCROG'ed branches and clone that so you end up with a large clone that has 4-8 budding site's on it already, basically it looks like a large mini copy of a full blown mom without the apical meristem. I know that's a strange way to describe it, I dont know how else to word it, however it is a great way to start a SCROG plant, when I'm back up and running I'll post pics of how to do that as that is the style of growing I'll be doing. Tried that as an experiment in my earlier days of growing.
 
Budley Doright

Budley Doright

Active member
Veteran
I want to apologize to toastfighter for the thread hijack....


It was my intent to contact landmark thru pm but he didnt have the required posts... 50

I dont like that rule but I dont make them...


Landmark...Its going to take a little time to establish the moms....


I like the idea of using a scrogtype mom maybe allowing a branch or two to gain apical dominance.... growing faster just before taking that part as a cutting....

I think the best way to start will be with a small clone.....then doing some lst'ing


My method to contrast with yours....


uses a 1 gallon koolaid pitcher and the ice tube cloner cells.... and vermiculite...


the dome a plastic grocery bag....


Different approaches....


Now that you are legal I can contact you thru pm......
 
G

Guest 18340

Not to crap on anyone's parade but you do know that Olivia's cloning gel doesn't contain any rooting hormones, right? No hormones whatsoever. Just a mild NPK gel is all it is...
At least the MG fast root has some.
 
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